Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

[Raiuga]

The Lancetai (ligurian spearmen) are label as skirmishers but have a more compact formation then their brothers the Cladivetai (ligurian sworsdmen).

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[Haze88]

Please read through the installation instructions and follow them EXACTLY, as they pertain to your O/S (linus, mac, windows version) and game type (Steam/CD). It's impossible for EB2 to prevent vanilla M2TW from working, so if that's the case, you've done something wrong.

If you still have problems after a detailed following of the instructions, please post all pertinent details to include the O/S, game type, and the path of your installation directory.

Windows10,

[neo_deus]

Terminology matters - you can only pick the "Successor", not the "Heir". If either the leader or heir should die, the successor then becomes Heir, and you should get a new pop-up allowing you to pick the next Successor (so yes, this repeats in perpetuity). It's possible (I've certainly done it) to not actually select the successor (i.e you canceled the successor message and the family tree window didn't appear, you picked somebody ineligible, you closed the family tree window improperly, etc). When you do it correctly, you get a pop-up notifying you that the chosen FM has "Inheritance Rights", there will be an uplifting tune playing in the background, and the guy will have a Successor trait. If all three don't happen, you don't have a successor.

I am sure I picked my successor in the 1st turn. I closed it by clicking in the "check" symbol, as always.
And I am pretty sure (about 90%) I didn't dismiss any other messages. I try to be extra careful, especially with family related sutff, since I don't want anyone leading my armies who doesn't have imperium and so forth.
Anyway, how important is the faction leader and heir? Do they directly influence my faction, or is it just something there needs to be in the game?



EDIT:
PS: If I remember my M2TW well, the faction leader, if placed with an army, will always lead said army even if he's not the better commander, right?

[myarta]

This is by no means guaranteed. I've ran repeated Boii tests where I've chosen Tasgetios as my PS and ~100% of the time, Taskouianos still becomes the next heir when Bossomaros dies and Brennos becomes the new FL. AFAIK, the PS script still won't work properly for me.

Huh. It works nearly every time for me, but I just tested as Boii and I get the same thing you do. It was a revelation when someone figured out the connection between Authority and Heir picking, but the hidden (until FL) stat of Authority is not the only factor in selection of an heir, just the only one we can select. He's probably getting a bonus for being young, for being unmarried (at least in mine) or of being of having-children age, and possibly also because he is a male-line instead of a married in leader (as even before we could nudge it in the right direction, Vanilla users would be mad if husbands of daughters were somehow preferred over male line nephews).

I think it's working for you, in that, it's doing the best it can, but it doesn't happen to be enough to override all of those factors. I wish I knew more about the factors, but they're likely to be things we can't change.

[JJ McGuire]

Hello, I've been playing a campaign as the Aruernio and I'm at about turn 70. I've attached my minimap just for interest, nothing particularly outlandish seems to have happened expansion wise yet, other than rome being unwilling to take Bruttium, but I'm sure I remember hearing how hard it is getting Rome to look south.

I've been having alot of fun so far, albeit probably rushing taking the rebel settlements a bit hard to give the AI a fair crack, but I think I may have spotted a few things that need fixing, sorry if someone else has already mentioned any of these and I missed it:
- The Allied state government just has "PLACEHOLDER" for it's short description that comes up in the construction report. Depite having a full description elswhere.
- The new Armorican tribesmen have no description and the name PLACEHOLDER for me.
- The confederation government for the Aruernoi don’t seem to have any recruitment options in Batumacos and Autrikon (I haven't actually tried building them there yet, but nothing comes up when checking out these governements in the building browser).

As ever, thanks for all your hard work on the mod.

[QuintusSertorius]

The Lancetai (ligurian spearmen) are label as skirmishers but have a more compact formation then their brothers the Cladivetai (ligurian sworsdmen).

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Both Ligurians should be rather loose, it's an error with the Spearmen.

[Raiuga]

Both Ligurians should be rather loose, it's an error with the Spearmen.

Thank you, gonna change that on my version!

[MrKhazar]

eb.system.log.txt.zip
Random crash when trying to start a Ptolemaioi campaign.

[QuintusSertorius]

eb.system.log.txt.zip
Random crash when trying to start a Ptolemaioi campaign.

There's nothing of note in there, which isn't surprising for an error-log rather than a trace-log. Did it repeat?

[Kull]

I am sure I picked my successor in the 1st turn. I closed it by clicking in the "check" symbol, as always.
And I am pretty sure (about 90%) I didn't dismiss any other messages. I try to be extra careful, especially with family related sutff, since I don't want anyone leading my armies who doesn't have imperium and so forth.
Anyway, how important is the faction leader and heir? Do they directly influence my faction, or is it just something there needs to be in the game?

It's not really critical, although it's especially necessary for those who like to role-play. The origin of this feature is that RTW allowed you to pick the Heir and M2TW does not, so we added this mechanism to give the player some control over those who will become Faction Heir after the current incumbent moves up. I also have to say that contrary to what Genghis reported (and I've tested the exact same situation he reports), in 100% of all my test games, the designated successor ALWAYS becomes the heir. I suppose it's possible that in some rare situations it might not work, but it's a proven and largely reliable game mechanism.

EDIT:
PS: If I remember my M2TW well, the faction leader, if placed with an army, will always lead said army even if he's not the better commander, right?

Correct

[MrKhazar]

There's nothing of note in there, which isn't surprising for an error-log rather than a trace-log. Did it repeat?

Ah yes, my apologies. Have to remember to make sure I have it set to trace. And no, it did not repeat. The mod's stability has significantly improved in my opinion.

One thing I do have to mention, is the presence of Stasis in the different cities. It appears that in some cases, the presence of any Hellenistic polis does not mean there will be Stasis (for example Alexandreia, Antiocheia and Massalia), but the presence of Stasis does not mean there will be at least a Minor Hellenistic Polis (Lilubim and Olbia, for example) It doesn't make sense for Lilubim and Olbia not to have a minor polis in my opinion, taking into account the number of Hellenes in these cities compared to Massalia.

[QuintusSertorius]

One thing I do have to mention, is the presence of Stasis in the different cities. It appears that in some cases, the presence of any Hellenistic polis does not mean there will be Stasis (for example Alexandreia, Antiocheia and Massalia), but the presence of Stasis does not mean there will be at least a Minor Hellenistic Polis (Lilubim and Olbia, for example) It doesn't make sense for Lilubim and Olbia not to have a minor polis in my opinion, taking into account the number of Hellenes in these cities compared to Massalia.

The presence or absence of Stasis and polis buildings is intentional, and done on a settlement-by-settlement basis. Stasis is for well-established Greek communities who have a history of organising themselves in a particular way. Alexandreia and Antiocheia were transplanted populations (sometimes forcibly) building new norms, not an established polity like Athenai or Syrakousai. Massalia's Greek population was too small to have the sort of critical mass of scheming factions that Stasis represents.

The Greeks of Olbia had moved away from the sort of customs and institutions that the polis represents, and western Sicily was firmly under the rule of Carthage. The presence of a polis is not simply about the number of Greeks present.

[MrKhazar]

The presence or absence of Stasis and polis buildings is intentional, and done on a settlement-by-settlement basis. Stasis is for well-established Greek communities who have a history of organising themselves in a particular way. Alexandreia and Antiocheia were transplanted populations (sometimes forcibly) building new norms, not an established polity like Athenai or Syrakousai. Massalia's Greek population was too small to have the sort of critical mass of scheming factions that Stasis represents.

The Greeks of Olbia had moved away from the sort of customs and institutions that the polis represents, and western Sicily was firmly under the rule of Carthage. The presence of a polis is not simply about the number of Greeks present.

Thank you for the detailed response. From what you are saying, Greeks living in cities like Histrie and Olbia began to adopt a way of life and orient their community in a manner distinct from a polis, although they still continued trading and living in the "decadent" Hellen way off of their profits. Is there any literature that can tell me more about this process and why it occurred?

[QuintusSertorius]

Thank you for the detailed response. From what you are saying, Greeks living in cities like Histrie and Olbia began to adopt a way of life and orient their community in a manner distinct from a polis, although they still continued trading and living in the "decadent" Hellen way off of their profits. Is there any literature that can tell me more about this process and why it occurred?

From one of our historians:

I'd disagree on the decadent and the idea of adopting new way of life. Civic institutions were very much alive in Olbia, Khersonesos and Histrie. Militarily however they couldn't force issues with their neighbours, opting to gain assistance from non-Hellenic tribes...

As for literature:

"Scythians and Greeks" by Ellis Hovell Minns
"Greeks on the Black Sea" by Anna A. Trofimova
"The Greek Colonisation of the Black Sea Area" and "North Pontic Archaeology" by Gocha R. Tsetskhladze
"The Northern Black Sea in Antiquity" by Valeriya Kozlovskaya

Then I dunno check http://www.pontos.dk/publications and really anything on Google with Black Sea and Greeks in it XD

[Raiuga]

Hello, I've been playing a campaign as the Aruernio and I'm at about turn 70. I've attached my minimap just for interest, nothing particularly outlandish seems to have happened expansion wise yet, other than rome being unwilling to take Bruttium, but I'm sure I remember hearing how hard it is getting Rome to look south.

Was thinking of asking what type of Roman expansion they were getting and then I read your post
That unfortunately seems to be the case, I'm playing with Carthage on H/H, and Rome has little interest in the south after taking Taras...They already besieged Felsina 3 or 4 times without success...Taras revolting to the Epirotes doesn't help either because it slows their movement...

It's a petty because in 2.2r I saw Rome take Syracuse before the year 265 and attacking Messana... ohhh well

[neo_deus]

It's not really critical, although it's especially necessary for those who like to role-play

Ye, that's the main reason why I wanted to have the correct faction heir
Say, is there a command to kill a family member? I'd like to give a go at that, but don't wanna start a new campaign and play it through 'till Dentatus dies. He's a tough bastard, took him like 30 turns to die on my current save.

EDIT: Or is there a way to reboot the "faction heir script"?

[Kull]

Ye, that's the main reason why I wanted to have the correct faction heir
Say, is there a command to kill a family member? I'd like to give a go at that, but don't wanna start a new campaign and play it through 'till Dentatus dies. He's a tough bastard, took him like 30 turns to die on my current save.

EDIT: Or is there a way to reboot the "faction heir script"?

I'm not aware of any means to manually run a script once the campaign is underway. As for killing Dentatus, either send him on lone attacks against Rebel stacks and hope he dies (works best if he can attack from the sea, and there's no place to retreat), or else put him on board a Triere and attack a superior naval force.

Also, take a close look at all your FMs - are you sure that one of those is not carrying the Successor trait? If not, you'll have to start a new campaign. Keep in mind that even if the successor is "passed over" for Heir by someone else, he'll still have the trait and theoretically would have a good chance of becoming the next heir.

[Hellenikon]

Yes it was. What was removed was the doubling-up of Greek units, given you already get them from the polis present in those places. Allied Governments shouldn't give you lots more units than non-Hellenistic factions get in Greek settlements, that was never the intent. So they get a small number, because the presence of the polis is accounted for. For example, this is eastern Sicily in the Allied Democracy:

;;; EASTERN SICILY
recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "italic infantry hustatus"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai"  1  0.06  2  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.06  2  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hemithorakitai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thureophoroi"  1  0.06  2  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.06  2  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry euzonoi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry toxotai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry sphendonitai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_2, f_hayasdan, f_parthia, f_gandhara, cul_5, cul_6, cul_7, } and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
;;; EASTERN SICILY - Hellenistic factions
recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "italic infantry hustatus"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.06  2  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource royal_core
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hemithorakitai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thureophoroi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry toxotai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry sphendonitai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and hidden_resource hr_island and hidden_resource hr_a and hidden_resource greek1

So yes, that was intended. You build Allied Governments in Greek regions as a Hellenistic faction to avoid the order penalties of Stasis and Autonomia, not to get a recruitment boost.

Thank you Quintus, i have noticed as Macedon that you still have thessalian cavalry available in olig two government though. I have to wonder what is the point of having polis recruitment, if any faction can build an allied government and get the same units.

I figured that as a hellenistic faction this was supposed to be a perk of sorts, like the spartiatai would be more willing to serve under a hellenistic monarch than a keltic king. Another example is Taras: i liked how as Rome i could get at most 1 taratinoi hippeis from the olig two, while as epirus i could get 2 tarantinoi - one from polis and another from olig two, reflecting the closer cultural connection.

Also as say Pontos for example there would be no point of building allied governments in these settlements (not affected by stasis or autonomia).

Lastly i have noticed that Pontos still doesn't have access to either the house of strength or greek gymnasium line, will this be fixed? Could pontos strat map models or ui use the eastern greek style eventually? The current one looks very eastern and neglects all the hellenistic influence the pontikoi had. I like how the eastern greek city uses a mix of hellenic and eastern buildings.

[neo_deus]

Also, take a close look at all your FMs - are you sure that one of those is not carrying the Successor trait? If not, you'll have to start a new campaign. Keep in mind that even if the successor is "passed over" for Heir by someone else, he'll still have the trait and theoretically would have a good chance of becoming the next heir.

Didn't notice any "successor trait", but also didn't look for it. Gonna do that next time I play.
Thank you for the replies, Kull.

[QuintusSertorius]

Thank you Quintus, i have noticed as Macedon that you still have thessalian cavalry available in olig two government though. I have to wonder what is the point of having polis recruitment, if any faction can build an allied government and get the same units.

I figured that as a hellenistic faction this was supposed to be a perk of sorts, like the spartiatai would be more willing to serve under a hellenistic monarch than a keltic king. Another example is Taras: i liked how as Rome i could get at most 1 taratinoi hippeis from the olig two, while as epirus i could get 2 tarantinoi - one from polis and another from olig two, reflecting the closer cultural connection.

Also as say Pontos for example there would be no point of building allied governments in these settlements (not affected by stasis or autonomia).

Lastly i have noticed that Pontos still doesn't have access to either the house of strength or greek gymnasium line, will this be fixed? Could pontos strat map models or ui use the eastern greek style eventually? The current one looks very eastern and neglects all the hellenistic influence the pontikoi had. I like how the eastern greek city uses a mix of hellenic and eastern buildings.

Polis recruitment for a Hellenistic faction is in addition to whatever you get from your governments of either sort, and you can stack it with Hellenistic colonies as well. For a non-Hellenistic faction, they get nothing from any polis that is present, and if they put an Allied Government there to get Greeks, they can't put their own factional government there.

As a Hellenistic faction, you get the polis recruitment instantly, by doing nothing at all, and can still stack on a Hellenistic colony. That's the perk. Not getting doubled-up Greek recruitment. Pontos can use the polis, they just can't build their own, which is why they get roped into this. If you're thinking "what's the point in the polis", then I'm afraid you've got Hellenistic factions backwards. The polis and colony are their primary sources of recruitment, by design, not their government buildings. That's why most governments give only locals. That's also why Greek recruitment from Allied Governments is curtailed, because they will be getting them from the polis already.

On the specific units you've raised, Spartiatai and Tarantinoi are rare, they come from only one place and they're not supposed to be plentiful. Thessalikoi on the other hand were being shipped out by their thousands to Syria as settlers.

It also serves another useful purpose, which is to deter the AI from building Allied Governments in places it should be building factional ones. Which is the general assumption when dealing with any Greek settlement, that you're likely to want to put colonies there, and you can't do that with an Allied Government.

Pontos isn't affected by Stasis or Autonomia - because they get hit by the culture penalty of not being rel_h. For them the advantage of an Allied Government is getting order settled faster with a Client Ruler, instead of having to drag your highest-Influence FM over to spend years changing the culture.

I don't know why those buildings are set the way they are, it was something put in a long time ago. No idea about strat map models.