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Thread: Depressive Neanderthals

  1. #1

    Default Depressive Neanderthals

    European? Pale? Moody? Lonely? Tendency to stay up all night? Addicted to nicotine? If you answered yes to any subset of those questions, it's probably at least partly due to your Neanderthal ancestry...

    Abstract: Assessing the genetic contribution of Neanderthals to non-disease phenotypes in modern humans has been difficult because of the absence of large cohorts for which common phenotype information is available. Using baseline phenotypes collected for 112,000 individuals by the UK Biobank, we can now elaborate on previous findings that identified associations between signatures of positive selection on Neanderthal DNA and various modern human traits but not any specific phenotypic consequences. Here, we show that Neanderthal DNA affects skin tone and hair color, height, sleeping patterns, mood, and smoking status in present-day Europeans. Interestingly, multiple Neanderthal alleles at different loci contribute to skin and hair color in present-day Europeans, and these Neanderthal alleles contribute to both lighter and darker skin tones and hair color, suggesting that Neanderthals themselves were most likely variable in these traits.
    The Contribution of Neanderthals to Phenotypic Variation in Modern Humans

    Some specifics:

    However, there are four phenotypes, all behavioral, to which Neanderthal alleles contribute more phenotypic variation than non-archaic alleles: chronotype, loneliness or isolation, frequency of unenthusiasm or disinterest in the last 2 weeks, and smoking status. Of these, the significant association between a Neanderthal variant in ASB1 and preference for evening activity also shows a correlation between the Neanderthal allele frequency and latitude, suggesting a link to differences in sunlight exposure for this phenotype. Additionally, the phenotype of increased frequencies of unenthusiasm or disinterest in the last 2 weeks was significantly associated with an archaic haplotype (chr5: 29,936,068–29,974,930; nearest gene: CDH6 [MIM: 603007]), and Neanderthal alleles also contributed more often to this phenotype than non-archaic alleles. A number of the associations we detected, such as dermatological traits, smoking, and mood disorders, overlap associations found in previous studies.
    The variability of Neanderthal pigmentation is interesting, because in the Mesolithic, most of Europe was populated by dark skinned people with blue eyes. It's unlikely however, that Paleolithic Europeans contributed much (if any) ancestry to Mesolithic Europeans, since the former appear to have not survived the last glacial maximum.
    Last edited by sumskilz; October 06, 2017 at 05:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Yeah they used to say red hair and pale skin might show some Neanderthal ancestry. There is evidence that they were subject to cannibalism as gnawing has been found of their bones. One of my mentors said that the correct pronounciation is "NEE an der TAL" not "NEE an der thal", and if someone was lecturing and said the latter to be wary of their credibility.

    A long time ago people would tease dimwitted people and call them Neanderthals but my mentor said they likely had a very large brains and were as intelligent or more intelligent than people today. We can't go strictly by cranial size as we don't know their neuroanatomy. Which is too bad as that would be fascinating.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; October 06, 2017 at 07:12 PM.

  3. #3
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Interesting article, I was under the assuption that the mutated MC1R gene presented in the previous two mapped neanderthal genomes already suggested a possible wide range of variation in hair and skin colour, but these mutations (which accounted for pale skin and red hair) were distinctly Neanderthal, and were not the same ones in our own species.

    The variability of Neanderthal pigmentation is interesting, because in the Mesolithic, most of Europe was populated by dark skinned people with blue eyes. It's unlikely however, that Paleolithic Europeans contributed much (if any) ancestry to Mesolithic Europeans, since the former appear to have not survived the last glacial maximum.
    Is that implying that mesolithic european populations might have owed at least some of the particular phenotypical appearance (dark skin and/or blue eyes) to neanderthal ancestry?
    Also, if lighter skin and darker skin is a consequence of neanderthal ancestry, where do native americans who themselves have fairly high neanderthal admixture (particularly Northwestern America, Mesoamerica, and northwestern South America/Andes) fit into this? With their variant but predominantly dark pigmented skin tones. Denisovan admixture as far as I know is limited to western amazonian people and a very frindge group of northwestern mexican ethnic groups.

    Worldwide distribution of B006, (from Yotova et al. “An X-Linked Haplotype of Neandertal Origin Is Present Among All Non-African Populations,” Mol. Biol. Evol. 28 (7), 2011).
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21266489

    If this study suggests (as I understand it) that skin tone in most non subsaharan african populations are largely dictated and contributed by neanderthal DNA, then what does that say of pre-neanderthal Homo sapiens, and current humans with no neanderthal DNA?
    Or is the proposition here that neanderthal and sapiens genes that dictate skin and hair tone are similar enough that neanderthal genes can contribute to these phenotypical expressions in conjunction with sapiens genes?

    I'm just spitballing here, I'm not super knowledgable on the subject.
    Last edited by saxdude; October 06, 2017 at 08:12 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    One of my mentors said that the correct pronounciation is "NEE an der TAL" not "NEE an der thal", and if someone was lecturing and said the latter to be wary of their credibility.
    The mispronunciation I hear most often is even more off than that, like "NEE an dra thal". I think "thal" is an old spelling of "tal" which is "valley" in German, and was always pronounced as "t" not "th". Neander is from Greek neo-ander - which is "new man" ironically.

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    A long time ago people would tease dimwitted people and call them Neanderthals but my mentor said they likely had a very large brains and were as intelligent or more intelligent than people today. We can't go strictly by cranial size as we don't know their neuroanatomy. Which is too bad as that would be fascinating.
    A bit can be surmised from endocasts:

    Abstract: Previous research has identified morphological differences between the brains of Neanderthals and anatomically modern humans (AMHs). However, studies using endocasts or the cranium itself are limited to investigating external surface features and the overall size and shape of the brain. A complementary approach uses comparative primate data to estimate the size of internal brain areas. Previous attempts to do this have generally assumed that identical total brain volumes imply identical internal organization. Here, we argue that, in the case of Neanderthals and AMHs, differences in the size of the body and visual system imply differences in organization between the same-sized brains of these two taxa. We show that Neanderthals had significantly larger visual systems than contemporary AMHs (indexed by orbital volume) and that when this, along with their greater body mass, is taken into account, Neanderthals have significantly smaller adjusted endocranial capacities than contemporary AMHs. We discuss possible implications of differing brain organization in terms of social cognition, and consider these in the context of differing abilities to cope with fluctuating resources and cultural maintenance.
    New insights into differences in brain organization between Neanderthals and anatomically modern humans

    I don't believe they had the same cognitive capabilities as modern humans, but I certainly think they were much more sophisticated than they have been portrayed in the past. There is a question as to whether late Neanderthal culture was a product of imitation (of anatomically modern humans) or introgression (in the genetic sense). I suspect maybe both.

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    Interesting article, I was under the assuption that the mutated MC1R gene presented in the previous two mapped neanderthal genomes already suggested a possible wide range of variation in hair and skin colour, but these mutations (which accounted for pale skin and red hair) were distinctly Neanderthal, and were not the same ones in our own species.
    The Neanderthal point mutation likely associated with red hair isn't the same as the modern human one. So modern human red hair isn't inherited from Neanderthals. If I remember correctly, the reason the Neanderthal variant is assumed to produce red hair is that a point mutation at the same loci in boars does so.

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    Is that implying that mesolithic european populations might have owed at least some of the particular phenotypical appearance (dark skin and/or blue eyes) to neanderthal ancestry?
    No, their skin color pigmentation was from the derived (African origin) alleles, and blue eyes seems to have been a novel mutation. Based on genetic affinities to other Mesolithic populations, they seem to have repopulated Europe after the last glacial maximum either from a refugium in the Southeast of Europe or Anatolia.

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    Also, if lighter skin and darker skin is a consequence of neanderthal ancestry, where do native americans who themselves have fairly high neanderthal admixture (particularly Northwestern America, Mesoamerica, and northwestern South America/Andes) fit into this? With their variant but predominantly dark pigmented skin tones.
    Likely yes, to a degree. The pigmentation variation of non-Africans is only about half due to Neanderthal ancestry, the other half of the contributing alleles are novel. The disproportionate Neanderthal contribution in certain traits has to be due to with positive selection after introgression. Native Americans have straight hair and projecting noses from Neanderthals.

    By projecting nose, I mean this (angle of the nasal bone):



    Some people might assume this feature is a product of European admixture (which this woman has none of), but is actually due to the common Neanderthal ancestry of both Native Americans and Europeans.

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    Denisovan admixture as far as I know is limited to western amazonian people and a very frindge group of northwestern mexican ethnic groups.
    The former also have a low level Onge-like ancestry (Skoglund and Reich 2016). I suspect both ancestries are evidence of an as yet unidentified (likely earlier) distinct migration into the Americas. The main Native American migration was ~40% ancient Siberian and ~60% Han-like.

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    Or is the proposition here that neanderthal and sapiens genes that dictate skin and hair tone are similar enough that neanderthal genes can contribute to these phenotypical expressions in conjunction with sapiens genes?
    Yeah, exactly this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #5
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    Yeah they used to say red hair and pale skin might show some Neanderthal ancestry. There is evidence that they were subject to cannibalism as gnawing has been found of their bones. One of my mentors said that the correct pronounciation is "NEE an der TAL" not "NEE an der thal", and if someone was lecturing and said the latter to be wary of their credibility.

    A long time ago people would tease dimwitted people and call them Neanderthals but my mentor said they likely had a very large brains and were as intelligent or more intelligent than people today. We can't go strictly by cranial size as we don't know their neuroanatomy. Which is too bad as that would be fascinating.
    Cannibalism was widespread among both, homo sapiens sapiens and homo neanderthalensis. The latest researech seems to suggest that it wasn't even something ritual or something that occured during episodes of starvation. It was probably a common practice to eat fresh human corpses, if the opportunity arose.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    The mispronunciation I hear most often is even more off than that, like "NEE an dra thal". I think "thal" is an old spelling of "tal" which is "valley" in German, and was always pronounced as "t" not "th". Neander is from Greek neo-ander - which is "new man" ironically.
    Yes, the "thal" in "neanderthal" goes back to an outdated German spelling (19th century). It's pronounciated like "TAHL". With a neutral (Latin-Germanic) "A" and a regular "T".

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    European? Pale? Moody? Lonely? Tendency to stay up all night? Addicted to nicotine? If you answered yes to any subset of those questions, it's probably at least partly due to your Neanderthal ancestry...
    Oh well.

    Come on, how much could neanderthals have contributed to the European genome? Especially the genetic characteristica (like personality features, according to what you seem to suggest) of the brain are very complex and therefore dependent on a very high number of genes, compared to phenotypical characteristica that are responsible for pigmentation for example (which depend on a relatively low number of genes). Is it even definitely proven, that there are actual NT-genes meandering around in Europe? Why only in Europe btw. they were also present in Anatolia f. ex.

    Some specifics:

    The variability of Neanderthal pigmentation is interesting, because in the Mesolithic, most of Europe was populated by dark skinned people with blue eyes. It's unlikely however, that Paleolithic Europeans contributed much (if any) ancestry to Mesolithic Europeans, since the former appear to have not survived the last glacial maximum.
    Blue eyes are a bit of a genetic mysterium. There is no apparent evolutionary advantage, yet they seem to spread quite vigorously, even among otherwise darker pigmented populations. Do you happen to have any idea why that is?
    Last edited by swabian; October 07, 2017 at 09:56 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Yes, the "thal" in "neanderthal" goes back to an outdated German spelling (19th century). It's pronounciated like "TAHL". With a neutral (Latin-Germanic) "A" and a regular "T".
    Also, the stress is on the second syllable, the "an". There is a glottal stop between e and a, like in many Arabic words.


    Why only in Europe btw. they were also present in Anatolia f. ex.
    What gets overlooked by some people (due to common Eurocentrism in reporting) is that Asians of all sorts also have Neanderthal or Denisovan admixture, or both. And Africans have their own admixture from a different, AFAIK unknown, human (sub-) species.


    Blue eyes are a bit of a genetic mysterium. There is no apparent evolutionary advantage, yet they seem to spread quite vigorously, even among otherwise darker pigmented populations. Do you happen to have any idea why that is?
    Just because. Rule of Cool

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    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Yeah, wait, wait, wait, ffs. Is the hypothetic neanderthal admixture among homo s. s. populations a sufficiently acknowledged factor at all?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Come on, how much could neanderthals have contributed to the European genome?
    About 2%

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Especially the genetic characteristica (like personality features, according to what you seem to suggest) of the brain are very complex and therefore dependent on a very high number of genes, compared to phenotypical characteristica that are responsible for pigmentation for example (which depend on a relatively low number of genes).
    All the Neanderthal genes which are widespread, are almost certainly so, specifically because they have a significant affect. In other words, they are widespread because they have been under positive selection. In contrast, large sections of the Neanderthal genome are non-existent in modern humans, likely because they were selected against. Small effect alleles, while more common, don't elicit significant selection.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Is it even definitely proven, that there are actual NT-genes meandering around in Europe?
    Yes, there was a less parsimonious explanation suggested for the distribution of alleles shared with Neanderthals only existing in non-Africans, but that rather awkward alternate explanation was thrown out when an early modern human in Romania was discovered to have had a recent Neanderthal ancestor.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Why only in Europe btw. they were also present in Anatolia f. ex.
    It's not only in Europe, it's just that Europeans are much more well-studied than other populations, so we can be more certain about particular genetic associations. Sometimes the same allele can have a somewhat different effect in different populations since the effects of the structures it codes for are dependent on interactions with structures which are coded by other genes.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Blue eyes are a bit of a genetic mysterium. There is no apparent evolutionary advantage, yet they seem to spread quite vigorously, even among otherwise darker pigmented populations. Do you happen to have any idea why that is?
    I can think of possibilities. It is known that the color of the iris effects the way light interacts with the eye. Blue eyes could be advantageous to vision under certain environmental conditions. The HERC2 gene which is the main determinant of iris pigmentation, also codes for a protein that regulates the circadian oscillation of DNA repair. I don't believe anyone has yet studied differences in that regard for the variant of HERC2 associated with blue eyes, but seems a good line of inquiry to me.

    This also raises some questions: Eye color: A potential indicator of alcohol dependence risk in European Americans

    From the discussion section (SAD = Seasonal Affective Disorder; LD = Linkage Disequilibrium):

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In this study, we found a significant phenotypic association of AD with light eye colors, particularly blue eye color (Table I), significant enrichment of genetic interactions between selected eye color genes and AD genes (Fig. 2), and strong LD between pigmentation genes and AD-associated genes on chromosomes 15q12 and 11q14 (Supplementary Figures S2 and S6). The strengths of this study include 1) extensive control for potential population stratification of all samples using genome-wide SNP information, 2) leverage of genomic data to assess the extent of biologically relevant interactions between eye color genes and AD candidate genes, and 3) multilevel (i.e., population-phenotype, network and genetics) approaches to test our hypothesis.

    Population stratification is a well-established source of false positive findings in association studies. To address this issue and assess the genetic homogeneity of our samples, we carefully selected only individuals who self-identified as EA and excluded admixed outliers such as individuals who were Hispanic based on self-report and our principal component analysis. These quality control procedures are likely to lead to moderately homogenous samples (Fig. 1 and Supplementary Figure S1). It should be noted that the PCA-based correction may not adequately correct for the south-north eye color cline in Europe or for the potential variation of this trait within countries of origin.

    A few other lines of research support the observed AD-eye color association. Firstly, there is evidence of association between light eye color and SAD [Pacchierotti et al., 2001] (Supplementary Figure S4). SAD is often comorbid with AD [Sher, 2004]. While the relationship between eye color and SAD could plausibly be explained by varying light sensitivity, there is no readily available explanation for the association between eye color and AD. One possible physiological mechanism connecting eye color and AD is as follows: blue-eyed individuals have greater light sensitivity than brown-eyed individuals; and heightened sensitivity to varying light intensities has been associated with abnormal changes in endogenous melatonin production [Pacchierotti et al., 2001]. The latter has also been associated with SAD, which is often comorbid with AD (Supplementary Figure S4). Thus, we hypothesize that AD and eye color may have partially shared etiological factors. Terman et al. showed that light-eyed individuals were less likely to develop SAD than brown-eyed individuals during the winter [Terman and Terman, 1999]. However, this conclusion did not exclude the possibility that light-eyed individuals are at a higher risk for SAD than their dark-eyed counterparts when exposed to varying light intensities, which is known to alter endogenous levels of serotonin and melatonin in light-supersensitive individuals [Pacchierotti et al., 2001]. Furthermore, our results complement a recent paper in which sunshine was shown to influence behavior [Vyssoki et al., 2014]. This study suggested that sunshine might facilitate suicidal behavior during the 10-day period prior to suicide. Since AD is a known risk factor for suicidal behavior [Inskip et al., 1998; Sher, 2006; Wojnar et al., 2009], our results imply that individuals with light eye color might be at greater susceptibility to sunshine-triggered behavior alterations (e.g., mood, aggression and impulsiveness) than dark-eyed individuals. In sum, the inconsistent findings [Pacchierotti et al., 2001; Higuchi et al., 2007] in the literature reflect an incomplete understanding of the connection between eye color and psychiatric disorders.

    Secondly, we observed strong LD blocks between eye color genes and GABA genes on chromosome 15q12. Interestingly, the 15q12 cytoband lies within the Prader-Willi syndrome (PWS) region. PWS presents with two relevant clinical features: hypopigmentation of the eyes and behavioral and psychiatric disturbances [Cassidy et al., 2011], which demonstrates that mutations in the 15q12 region can lead to both phenotypes. Similarly, we also observed strong LD between the GRM5 (AD-associated) and TYR (pigmentation-associated) genes in cytoband11q14.3. Interestingly, microdeletions in this region have been associated with leukodystrophy, a group of central nervous system disorders affecting the brain's white matter [Goizet et al., 2004]. Additionally, variation in this region, specifically in TYR, has been associated with melanin production [Beleza et al., 2013]. Overall, these observations support the idea that two independent gene regions in the human genome may be concurrently associated with pigmentation variation and brain function.

    Thirdly, animal experiments have also shown that hypopigmentation may correlate with behavioral changes (e.g., in the Astyanax cavefish model [Elipot et al., 2014]). Despite alack of direct evidence, these reports support the association between blue eye color and AD in EAs (Fig. 3).

    To conclude, our findings complement existing research on the connection between eye color and psychiatric illnesses, addiction, and behavioral problems. Our study is the first to report an association between blue eye color and AD in EAs using well-diagnosed subjects and a moderate sample size. Our findings indicate that the selection pressures acting on the genetics of pigmentation might not only have implications for personality features, as previously reported [Gardiner and Jackson, 2010], but also for AD susceptibility. Thus, integration of population-phenotype and gene and network analyses is helpful for the identification of risk factors in AD, and a broad range of psychiatric illnesses and addiction, in general. Although we carefully controlled for stratification, we cannot exclude underlying occult stratification as a contributor to this observation. While replication is needed, our findings suggest that eye pigmentation information may be useful in the future research of AD and related alcohol consumption behaviors. Further characterization of this association may unravel novel etiological factors in alcohol addiction.
    The evidence is solid regarding positive selection of blue eyes in Europeans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  9. #9
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    That's all highly interesting, thanks.

    All the Neanderthal genes which are widespread, are almost certainly so, specifically because they have a significant affect. In other words, they are widespread because they have been under positive selection. In contrast, large sections of the Neanderthal genome are non-existent in modern humans, likely because they were selected against. Small effect alleles, while more common, don't elicit significant selection.
    Yeah, that makes sense. But wouldn't functional expressions be the ones in question here? A tendency towards depression doesn't seem so functional.

    It is known that the color of the iris effects the way light interacts with the eye. Blue eyes could be advantageous to vision under certain environmental conditions.
    Perhaps, but i wonder what kind of selective pressure could favour a phenotypical expression like this in modern, heavily industrialized regions. Maybe it helps with staring at computer screens, hehe. Nah, seriously, this is kinda mysterious, especially because blue eyes are inherited recessively, aren't they?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Yeah, that makes sense. But wouldn't functional expressions be the ones in question here? A tendency towards depression doesn't seem so functional.
    Well, you wouldn't think that the sickle cell anemia allele would be under significant positive selection in Africa if you were only thinking about the disease, but when you realize having one copy of the allele makes a person resistant to malaria without any real negative, effects except at very high altitude, then it makes sense. There has to be a positive function (from the perspective of fitness) that's not been identified. The selection pressure seems to vary clinally from northern to southern Europe, strongest in the north. This fact along with the nature of the apparent side effects that can be observed has led some to speculate that it's possibly some behavioral adaptation to northern latitudes. But then why would it not have spread to the northern latitudes of eastern Asia and why did all Mesolithic hunter-gatherers in Iberia (that we know of) have blue eyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Perhaps, but i wonder what kind of selective pressure could favour a phenotypical expression like this in modern, heavily industrialized regions. Maybe it helps with staring at computer screens, hehe. Nah, seriously, this is kinda mysterious, especially because blue eyes are inherited recessively, aren't they?
    It's polygenic, but the most import allele is recessive. That's in HERC2. As mentioned in that studied I quoted, HERC2 is right next to some GABA genes. GABA is one of the most important inhibitory neural transmitters. Some of the effects associated with blue eyes could actually be due to the function of those GABA genes. Because each chromosome only breaks into so many pieces during recombination each generation, selection can act on genes that don't produce the effect, but just happen to be right next to those that do. This can only happen for so long though, because eventually the genes will be split from each other. Blue eyes are fairly young in the bulk of the European genome, which is mostly of recent (in evolutionary terms) non-European origin - Neolithic to Bronze Age. It could be that particular GABA genes were inherited from Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and selected for while blue eyes just hitched a ride on the selected segments. Although I doubt this is the case, because it seems to me blue eyes must have been functional to be completely fixed at something close to 100% in the hunter-gatherer gene pool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    European?
    Yep. 100% British isles back 300 years that we can tell, most of it out of the mud of Cork.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Pale?
    AF. One of my nicknames is ""Angry White Man". The angry bit is ironic.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Moody?
    Nope, happy as a pig in mud.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Lonely?
    Nope. Gregarious.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Tendency to stay up all night?
    Nope, sleep like a log unless my gut is acting up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Addicted to nicotine?
    Nope, never done much for me. My old man was a 2 pack a day man (sometimes more), but was told in the 1960's to give up when the first research came out of the US: he threw the pack he was half way through into the bin and never smoked again.

    I do have red body hair, I was blonde as a kid and now brownish with male pattern baldness. However I've read modern red hair is a recent mutation and Neanderthal red hair has not been transmitted.

    I'm a bit disappointed I don't match more closely (well not sorry I don't have an emotional illness though) as I harbour a fond fantasy I am a bit more Neanderthal than most. I have an enormous head, (I take size 63 hat) with roughly the right shape (long wide but not too tall) and a lump at the back that I think is an occipital bun (caveman bun ftw) although it might just be a thickening of bone from a childhood fall or something. My build is wide, arms and legs relatively short for my torso. The first archaeology class I took I recall seeing and hearing the description of a classic Neanderthal and it was a weird feeling. At that time the interbreeding theory was denied strongly, I think on emotional grounds more than anything and its been interesting to observe the slow change in professional and public attitude to the new theories.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  12. #12

    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed I don't match more closely (well not sorry I don't have an emotional illness though) as I harbour a fond fantasy I am a bit more Neanderthal than most.
    Well, you could find out just how Neanderthal you really are with a debit card and some saliva.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Well, you could find out just how Neanderthal you really are with a debit card and some saliva.
    I have an imagination thanks. Anyway, I know my ancestry already:100% protozoan, me!

    I actually don't trust the commercial sites, a mate used one and was given a flat breakdown of his ancestry by percentage which seems like a fairly meaningless. Some Irish, some Scottish, so Ashkenaz etc etc, the terminology was anachronistic and silly.

    I wonder if there's a paid service that gives a bit more depth an analysis? A quick Google shows the National Geographic test is a bit more nuanced and sensible.

    ...maybe I will. Then again if the Neanderthal markers hit 50% (as I suspect they will) won't an alarm go of in an Israeli University, leading to a crack team of Neanderthal hunters being dispatched to collect the ape man? I'll have difficulty finding small hiding places with my large head, they'll find me for sure.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  14. #14

    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I actually don't trust the commercial sites, a mate used one and was given a flat breakdown of his ancestry by percentage which seems like a fairly meaningless. Some Irish, some Scottish, so Ashkenaz etc etc, the terminology was anachronistic and silly.

    I wonder if there's a paid service that gives a bit more depth an analysis? A quick Google shows the National Geographic test is a bit more nuanced and sensible.
    My response to this was too off-topic for this thread, so it's here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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    Default Re: Depressive Neanderthals

    Once again, "I must spread some reputation around..."
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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