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Thread: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

  1. #41
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post
    On that note DC should also become a state (cut out the capitol buildings) and virgin islands should become a state, guam should become a state, american samoa should be a state. If Montana and Wyoming get to be states then there's no reason not to make our territories states unless you can make a valid argument that we shouldn't represent these people who are American citizens. Considering PR has about 4 million people I can't believe anyone would be against representing them.
    All of them first should approve of statehood.
    And no, PR hasn't. IIRC, the last referendum was terribly worded. It first asked if you like the current status, and if you voted no you could decide what status you want. Those who voted no, the majority voted for statehood.
    I want to see more stars on the flag, but until the people of those lands approve of statehood, there's nothing we can do about it.

    As for DC becoming a state, no. The capital should not also be a state.



  2. #42
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    I am always uncertain what criteria we should use to allow territories to advance to statehood. In the case of DC -- we could recarve (word??) the the district and return to the states that had been the donors of the territory. That would be cleaner and also less messy.
    I think the problem here is DC is roughly 600,000 people who don't have much of any say in our presidency. That's more than montana entirely. That's stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    As for the bits of Micronesia and other pieces in the Pacific Ocean such as Wake Island, American Samoa, and Guam -- we could easily absorb these bits into the states via merger with Hawaii. They are all small in population and economic activity.
    Why would we do that? We live in a representative democracy, I see no justification to merge islands across the pacific into a single state. We might as well have Montana, and Wyoming merged into single states. The population argument is equally as valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    Rather than complicate the issue of the US Senate, I think adding populations to existing states and thus adjustments to only the US House of Representatives might be a good way to allow the good citizens to be able to vote in federal elections and still retain some of the independence they already have.
    Ok, so the justification should be merging states like Montana and Wyoming, giving states like PR full statehood given it's one of the more populous states. Then merging hawaii w/ micronesia (I think this is silly but w/e). I still think DC should be made a state.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    We are probably past the point in our history where territories are appropriate as a bit of our national fabric. but other than PR there may be no need to actually add to the state count.

    PR is more complicated. I already started a thread on this ( Should Puerto Rico become a state? ), so no more needs to be added here.
    Yeah, more think that it should than don't or close to a majority depending on the poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpy Hooves View Post
    All of them first should approve of statehood.
    them approving of statehood. TBH BS traditions are objectively harming 4 million people because our government can't seem to understand Puerto Ricans are US citizens who deserve full representation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpy Hooves View Post
    And no, PR hasn't. IIRC, the last referendum was terribly worded. It first asked if you like the current status, and if you voted no you could decide what status you want. Those who voted no, the majority voted for statehood.
    I want to see more stars on the flag, but until the people of those lands approve of statehood, there's nothing we can do about it.
    Right because city bureaucrats are cognizant that they would lose power doing so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpy Hooves View Post
    As for DC becoming a state, no. The capital should not also be a state.
    Why? Justify your reasoning. It's got about 681k population that's more than Vermont and Wyoming.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post
    I think the problem here is DC is roughly 600,000 people who don't have much of any say in our presidency. That's more than montana entirely. That's stupid.
    I simply suggested returning the land the people live on to the states that made the original contribution. It has nothing to do with the number of people. I agree they should be able to vote for federal offices.



    Why would we do that? We live in a representative democracy, I see no justification to merge islands across the pacific into a single state. We might as well have Montana, and Wyoming merged into single states. The population argument is equally as valid.



    Ok, so the justification should be merging states like Montana and Wyoming, giving states like PR full statehood given it's one of the more populous states. Then merging hawaii w/ micronesia (I think this is silly but w/e). I still think DC should be made a state.
    Once again -- I said nothing about merging states -- a bit messy to say the least. I stated that it might be easier to expand a state to include territories rather than make new states. Of course there are more votes needed such as the people of Hawaii that need to vote on the inclusion before the Congress could accept the new defined state of Hawaii as well as the Pacific territories to individually vote to be part of the state of Hawaii. All of this would need to happen before Congress could act on the petition(s).



    Yeah, more think that it should than don't or close to a majority depending on the poll.



    them approving of statehood. TBH BS traditions are objectively harming 4 million people because our government can't seem to understand Puerto Ricans are US citizens who deserve full representation.



    Right because city bureaucrats are cognizant that they would lose power doing so.


    Why? Justify your reasoning. It's got about 681k population that's more than Vermont and Wyoming.
    On this, we agree -- at least a bit. Like I had stated -- the time for US Territories and limiting participation in federal elections is probably best to be in our past. Other than PR, these people can all be represented and these people can elect people to federal offices without adding states to the union.

    Oh -- I did not take up the point about the US Virgin Islands. I do not know where they fit into my internal scheme I presented. A part of PR or Florida would or could be a possibility.

    So why is there this obsession with all these bits being added as their own states? The important thing that I got from your earlier post was the lack of representation in the federal electoral process. Why mix this up so much? Why does it matter that some existing states are small or large? You are complicating and complicating needlessly. If your complaint is the electoral college versus an aggregated lump vote without the college -- then be honest. Start a thread.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    I mean, I don't see a reason not to give them their own statehood. I think we've gotten into the, let's keep it at 50, for no real justification. Representation of some-sort would be better for sure, but I'm very aware of the fact that lower your population the more representation you end up with.

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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Fair enough Elfdude.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post
    I think the problem here is DC is roughly 600,000 people who don't have much of any say in our presidency. That's more than montana entirely. That's stupid.
    You usually get things right, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you need to correct yourself. DC has a voice in the Presidency. They don't have a voice in the Congress.
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    I also keep mixing up Montana and Wyoming. I get things wrong from time to time.

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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post
    I also keep mixing up Montana and Wyoming. I get things wrong from time to time.
    At Risk of being off topic -- LOL

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post
    them approving of statehood. TBH BS traditions are objectively harming 4 million people because our government can't seem to understand Puerto Ricans are US citizens who deserve full representation.



    Right because city bureaucrats are cognizant that they would lose power doing so.



    Why? Justify your reasoning. It's got about 681k population that's more than Vermont and Wyoming.
    If they don't want statehood, then the don't have to have statehood.
    Last time I checked, neither Vermont or Wyoming were our country's capital



  10. #50
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Whether they want it or not remains to be seen, thus far the only clarity we have is from folks who have designed a process to fail because they're personally benefitted from the status quo.

    Also, last time I checked, the residential district of Washington DC wasn't our capital either.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    As I said, I want them to become states.
    Fun fact: Washington D.C. is our capital



  12. #52

    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfdude View Post

    Also, last time I checked, the residential district of Washington DC wasn't our capital either.
    Current historic precedent is to give land back to a state. But federal capital land isn't a state.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/06/us/pu...als/index.html

    Finger pointing has started on all the get rich quick contracts such as to "Tribute Contracting" with their massive employee base of one person and a contract given and then canceled for 30 million meals. What was FEMA thinking a one person company could do? Sub contract the sub contracts and make millions!!!!

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Trump: "You can say goodbye to Puerto Rican Debt"

    lol, it's almost like Trump appointees can't do their jobs...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Long

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