[submod] De AI Arbitriis

[CIaagent11]

Fabulous work! Thank you very much for taking up my (admittedly small) idea and doing something great with it. I had no idea the occupation decisions could be split up into over 30 faction groups.

Be aware that the AI (after winning a settlement but not being allowed to occupy it) will often just siege that same settlement again the very next turn. After all, they have a huge army right next to it, and the garrison is all but dead. It will potentially do this repeatedly, until it either occupies or liberates the settlement. That way the probabilities kind of get messed up. Just be aware of this in your file values tweaking.

So I don't know if it is entirely possible to actually keep the AI from occupying. It will eventually occupy or create a liberated confederacy faction. Regarding lots of 'confederations' popping up, which keeps expansion down, but eventually just looks ugly. Is there any way to make the game spawn the "normal" faction instead of the gen_ faction? My initial testing lead to immediate CTD's.

[Sedulus]

So I don't know if it is entirely possible to actually keep the AI from occupying. It will eventually occupy or create a liberated confederacy faction. Regarding lots of 'confederations' popping up, which keeps expansion down, but eventually just looks ugly. Is there any way to make the game spawn the "normal" faction instead of the gen_ faction? My initial testing lead to immediate CTD's.

First of all, I am very satisfied with the mod. Thanks again! Good work!

There is the possibility to adjust the names of the fraction. I have used other tribal names with me so with the Germans, Iberians, Gallic ect. who have taken over the settlement at short notice. So it comes as if the hordes were as at Attila.

[Joysong]

Fabulous work! Thank you very much for taking up my (admittedly small) idea and doing something great with it. I had no idea the occupation decisions could be split up into over 30 faction groups.

Be aware that the AI (after winning a settlement but not being allowed to occupy it) will often just siege that same settlement again the very next turn. After all, they have a huge army right next to it, and the garrison is all but dead. It will potentially do this repeatedly, until it either occupies or liberates the settlement. That way the probabilities kind of get messed up. Just be aware of this in your file values tweaking.

So I don't know if it is entirely possible to actually keep the AI from occupying. It will eventually occupy or create a liberated confederacy faction. Regarding lots of 'confederations' popping up, which keeps expansion down, but eventually just looks ugly. Is there any way to make the game spawn the "normal" faction instead of the gen_ faction? My initial testing lead to immediate CTD's.

Hi CIaagent11,

thank u very much for your comment. and off course for bringing this idea in live. indeed, the barbarian AI will after a few turns occupy the settlement if there is nothing more to sack. it is possible to leave out the occupy possibility for some factions but that would make the game very static. so we decided to give it a very low possibility of doing so. in my personal campaign the results are what we had in mind. There is always room for improvement but we need more test results for that. so to everybody please share your screenshots for the good of the mod. liberating has been limited to the Greek nations. not sure if this is possible but could you share what you've come up with so far?

[CIaagent11]

There is the possibility to adjust the names of the fraction.

I did just that. This is the English faction names submod with the Confederations and 'Tribal Council' factions hastily renamed. @_deisubmod_englishfactionnames_no_confederations.zip I might have missed some, and I did only the faction title itself, not the "you are attacked by..." lines.

I hope this is ok with Augustusng, who is the maker of the english faction names submod.
Also, be aware that this probably won't work post 1.2.2.

[Sedulus]

I did just that. This is the English faction names submod with the Confederations and 'Tribal Council' factions hastily renamed. @_deisubmod_englishfactionnames_no_confederations.zip I might have missed some, and I did only the faction title itself, not the "you are attacked by..." lines.

I hope this is ok with Augustusng, who is the maker of the english faction names submod.
Also, be aware that this probably won't work post 1.2.2.

Ah ok. Well, I'm playing now in German, otherwise I would have drawn your mod.
I use the version of shogun2 from this forum here: https://www.strategie-zone.de/forum/...?f=942&t=15642
Also, I have adapted the factional names as well as the names of the cities to the Latin.

[CIaagent11]

This would be turns 50 and 100 with the De AI Arbitriis.
I find it reasonably stable, but ever so slowly larger factions are conglomerating. However I did a fair amount of savegame editing, and kept an eye out for factions becoming unrealisticly huge, for example capturing Massilia before they could get big.




Edit: This is way after turn 200. All of Britain is the Iceni. All of germania is the Frisii. And pretty much all of the east is the Seleucids. Also, gaul would be one big Nervii empire, if I hadn't intervened. Otherwise things seem pretty stable, and people seem to stay in their place. Kinda takes the fun out of the gallic wars though, that I had to liberate them way before it was their time to get conquered historically. Pretty much just single-region gen_factions there now. I had hoped for a strong Arverni opponent. Also, I had preferred if the Galatians had stayed big in Asia, instead of having to fight greeks everywhere. But the Seleucids took it all the way to the coast, and I had to run around there and liberate it. They were pretty big a few years before the screenshot, and would be a huge juggernaut holding most of Anatolia, if I hadn't intervened.



All in all, I would like things to be somewhat more stable, and to meet more of the real factions, that were actually there, when I get there as the romans. But usually the realistic faction has been destroyed, if I expand in a roughly realistic direction.

[CIaagent11]

Regarding lots of 'confederations' popping up, which keeps expansion down, but eventually just looks ugly. Is there any way to make the game spawn the "normal" faction instead of the gen_ faction?

There is the possibility to adjust the names of the fraction. I have used other tribal names with me so with the Germans, Iberians, Gallic ect. who have taken over the settlement at short notice. So it comes as if the hordes were as at Attila.

Ok, I figured out how to spawn the "real" factions. Although it would be quite a bit of work to change it for the entire map. And it's a startpos change, so we'd have to do it all over again next DeI version.
But here a little description for anyone who wants to take a snipe at it:

Get Savegame Parser and use it to find the array number of the faction you wan to spawn and the array number of the region you want to spawn it in.
Then open the DeI part 1 with packfilemanager and go to campaigns/main_rome/startpos.esf then CAMPAIGN_STARTPOS/COMPRESSED_DATA/CAMPAIGN_MODEL/WORLD/FACTION_ARRAY and find your faction by array number. Now if you count the True/False lines from the top, there are four in a block, and then there is a fifth, which is single. You want to change that fifth to True, to make the faction spawnable.
Now go to .../WORLD/REGION_MANAGER/REGIONS_ARRAY and find your region. The first text line in the middle of the list is the faction that region will spawn if that region is liberated. It likely says "gen_something" or "something_civil_war". Change it to your faction.

This worked in my testing, and if anyone cared enough, we could change all of the regions to spawn the real factions instead of gen_ rebels.

[Mepper]

There always seem to be some factions that are just doing extremely well. In my game this would be Athens and Egypt. Athens conquered it's way all up to the Caucasus and Hayasdan, but in the process at least liberated like 6 factions. That's really what our mod does. It can't stop some factions from steamrolling all their neighbours, but it will simply force them to liberate, vassalize and sack, instead of just occupying everything. Our mod doesn't, and was never intented to create a static map. If you want that you can easily set occupy, loot and raze to zero, even liberate, and nothing should change on your map. (I can't 100% guarantee that this will make the map static, the numbers in the file we edited don't reflect the chances of some things happening very well. Some factions have like 40 points in vassalize, and 0.2 in liberate, and they still liberate quite often. So not sure if zero really means zero.)

[CIaagent11]

I hate it when those little greek city states become unrealistically huge. Either phalanxes are overpowered, or they just steamroll everyone because they can't sack, and so more of their occupation decision priority goes to occupying. My main goal in the early game is always to take out Massilia before they can get a huge gallic empire.

Your mod keeps things somewhat down. But only for a while. Due to the limitatins of the gameplay mechanics, so far it has been impossible to keep the map realistic beyond turn 200-ish. But if we change the liberated factions to the real factions, and raise the liberation percentage, the map should continually restabilize itself.

Yes, there is the option of entirely taking away that occupation decision in a different setting. I have tried that, but a completely static map is no challenge either, because it feels like you removed your enemies teeth if they can't conquer. And they only have one region, so you can pick them off one by one. That isnt the solution. I wish there was some way to script how far factions go, to keep them in a historic area of influence, e.g. limit athens to greece, but let the gauls conquer far and wide, if they wish. I've tried all sorts of money tweaking, but that just doesn't seem to affect the AI at all.

[Sedulus]

In my present game, the Budini, Tulingi, Editani and the Seleucidae have spread widely. Perhaps I forgot one or the other faction. But these are most striking. The Editani have even landed in Africa and the Garamantes have conquered Cathago. Perhaps also my playing style. I always try to close any accounts to keep the AI ​​quiet. In Gaul, nothing has happened to me now. All Greek factions have submitted themselves to me as clientel kings, even the Bastarnae with whom I had nothing to send. I am now in round 156 and Carthago is destroyed.
I had unfortunately also the culturel tensio mod switch off otherwise there is no advance for me as described in the other thread. Uprising without end. Of course, the other factions are now giving me gas. I have already thought about a script, when which factions can take which province. But it was certainly a heathen work.
Could not you just go and the barbarian factions just loot the cities?

I mean to have seen in one of the tabel that one can tell the factions in which round they attack who, with whom they should act or the region from another faction enter. Perhaps one would have to adjust something there, but I know too little.

I also hoped for a mod for the trade. There are massive cities along rivers, why can not they be assigned to a commercial port? So only the cities where you can follow the river from the sea. I think that would make the game even more interesting.

[KAM 2150]

I also hoped for a mod for the trade. There are massive cities along rivers, why can not they be assigned to a commercial port? So only the cities where you can follow the river from the sea. I think that would make the game even more interesting.

I think Dresden tried to do that but it didn't work.

[CIaagent11]

Thanks for the input. I will research some modding possibilities and get back to you if I figure something out.

[Sedulus]

I think Dresden tried to do that but it didn't work.

I have seen a mod in the Sparta has got a port. It probably has something with the Startpos File.

Thanks for the input. I will research some modding possibilities and get back to you if I figure something out.

With pleasure. If it helps the community! It`s fine! I hope I can help.

[CIaagent11]

Greeks can sack...

[Joysong]

Greeks can sack...

And your Not Ai.


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[Nekyo]

May I suggest having a look at Carthago?
The punic faction entries have a preference to vassalize.
In my recent campaigns this led to Carthage always subjugating Syracuse. It's literally war, client state, after one or two years Syracuse rebels and gets subjugated again.
This exp boost makes the Carthagian fleets and armies in that region vastly superior to anything else over time (which is ultimately realistic, but helps Carthage in AI battles) and it leads to the Punic War never starting. Because Carthage never secures Silicia.
Basically Rome and C. stay on good terms forever...

[Sedulus]

So, here is also a screenshot of me. He's from round 185 of my current game. I have to expand a little slowly or else I have problems with my trading partners. But you know that. Spain is more or less dominated by two factions.
The Seleucids are also quite strong. But have stayed quite a while before a few rounds.
Bactria is just about to stretch out as much as the Scordrisci which I do not like.
Gallia is so far ok, except for the Treverii. They have landed somewhere in the north, where they have nothing to look for. And I miss the Marcomanni somehow.

[CIaagent11]

It looks like you have a much less conglomerated map than I had in my last campaign. I had entire chunks of the map fallen to a single faction. Maybe the reduced movement points submod or my money tinkering is actually hurting things. less money = the strong get stronger...?

Anyhow, my 'research' is moving ahead. Making the real faction the rebel faction of a settlement does not work, it causes a CTD upon viewing the settlement.
And since greeks can't sack, I can't just limit the AI to only sack. So I'll have to do this with scripts.

This example code will continually declare peace between the Arverni and any faction that has only one or two settlements. We can just have one of these loops for every faction we don't want to die. (They still get to conquer the player as much as they want.) It works, I'm just not quite sure how I want to set this up. If I disallow all small factions from fighting, then the game would be completely static in for example gual, since they all only have one settlement to begin with.
I'm thinking I could do something like letting them fight until they have three settlements or something, or setting the loop up in a different way. Input is appreciated.

function Peace(context)
if context:faction():is_human() == false and context:faction():region_list():num_items() < 3
        then scripting.game_interface:force_make_peace(context.string,"rom_arverni")
    end
end

scripting.AddEventCallBack("FactionTurnStart", Peace);

[FlashHeart07]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It looks like you have a much less conglomerated map than I had in my last campaign. I had entire chunks of the map fallen to a single faction. Maybe the reduced movement points submod or my money tinkering is actually hurting things. less money = the strong get stronger...?

Anyhow, my 'research' is moving ahead. Making the real faction the rebel faction of a settlement does not work, it causes a CTD upon viewing the settlement.
And since greeks can't sack, I can't just limit the AI to only sack. So I'll have to do this with scripts.

This example code will continually declare peace between the Arverni and any faction that has only one or two settlements. We can just have one of these loops for every faction we don't want to die. (They still get to conquer the player as much as they want.) It works, I'm just not quite sure how I want to set this up. If I disallow all small factions from fighting, then the game would be completely static in for example gual, since they all only have one settlement to begin with.
I'm thinking I could do something like letting them fight until they have three settlements or something, or setting the loop up in a different way. Input is appreciated.

function Peace(context)
if context:faction():is_human() == false and context:faction():region_list():num_items() < 3
        then scripting.game_interface:force_make_peace(context.string,"rom_arverni")
    end
end

scripting.AddEventCallBack("FactionTurnStart", Peace);

Looks interesting Looking forward to seeing the results of such a script

[CIaagent11]

Thank you.

Ok, somebody take a look at this. @realistic_expansion_v0.5.zip
It's not a particularly sophisticated approach, but it might work. I just made a long list of factions that declare peace with each other every turn. It's made so factions will stay in a realistic boundary. So for example gauls can fight gauls, but I keep them from going to iberia. It's a first attempt. I haven't done any testing yet, so I don't know what happens in game. Might not even work, or the AI goes crazy or something. I will start a campaign with it and see.
This comes with DeI's grand_campaign.lua, because I couldn't figure out how to put it in it's own file.

New version here.