Making Civil Wars "Realistic"?

**NateTheGreat1990** · September 22, 2017, 09:05 PM

I noticed that after forming the Roman Empire, I still have a higher chance of civil war with high influence.

Which to me doesn't make sense, it seems like if you had lower influence as the Empire, you should have a civil war. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it would be impossible to have a civil war with high influence in real life, but it would make sense game mechanic wise to have so Low Influence = Higher Chance of Civil War High Influence = Lower Chance of Civil War as an Empire.

So is this possible? Or is there a submod?

I noticed that even after selecting to go as the Empire, it doesn't change the Government type, so I'm guessing this doesn't exist. Could we look into implementing this in another update?

**KYREAPER** · September 23, 2017, 12:33 AM

The higher your influence, the less power everyone else feels they have.

If you are a super powerful leader pushing your influence all over everrrrryone else... then everyone else feels like their needs and their influences are being oppressed. That makes sense to cause a civil war.

In contrast, if your influence is less, then that means other peoples influence is greater.. that means those populations of people are getting their needs met and their perspectives honored... and that means that everyone is being represented..

If you have almost all of the influence, then only you and your group are getting their perspectives honored.
Everyone else has no influence over what happens, and it makes them feel meaningless and ignored.

As an empire... if the emperor is ruling full force (similar to a tyrant) then the senate and everyone else feels like their opinions dont matter.

If you make an empire and your emperor is honoring and respecting everyones opinion, letting them have their views and perspectives honored and acknowledged, then they will feel like they are a part of the empire.. making them feel like they have purpose... making them feel like contributers.... and they are fine with your ruling and will not civil war.

Civil wars didnt happen because a ruler didnt rule with an iron fist.
Civil wars happen when you feel your needs arent being met, and your desires are being ignored..
The more influence a ruler has, the higher CHANCE of a civil war if people start getting fed up that their views arent being respected.

The only time a civil war does not occur when under tyrannical rule, is if the majority of the people being ruled already see eye-to-eye with the ruler, and therefore the more influence the ruler has, then the majority of the population are still having their needs met... and the smaller groups dont have the size to adequately rebel, but thats very seldom... Thats what happened with Adolf Hitler.. not all Germans agreed with him... but a majority did...

**RecKooo** · September 23, 2017, 09:01 AM

Was that a reason for civil wars in Rome? I thought it was pure lust of power not feeling of being ignored. But I might be wrong having no indepth knowledge of mechanics back in antiquity. Cheers.

**NateTheGreat1990** · September 23, 2017, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by KYREAPER

The higher your influence, the less power everyone else feels they have.

If you are a super powerful leader pushing your influence all over everrrrryone else... then everyone else feels like their needs and their influences are being oppressed. That makes sense to cause a civil war.

In contrast, if your influence is less, then that means other peoples influence is greater.. that means those populations of people are getting their needs met and their perspectives honored... and that means that everyone is being represented..

If you have almost all of the influence, then only you and your group are getting their perspectives honored.
Everyone else has no influence over what happens, and it makes them feel meaningless and ignored.

As an empire... if the emperor is ruling full force (similar to a tyrant) then the senate and everyone else feels like their opinions dont matter.

If you make an empire and your emperor is honoring and respecting everyones opinion, letting them have their views and perspectives honored and acknowledged, then they will feel like they are a part of the empire.. making them feel like they have purpose... making them feel like contributers.... and they are fine with your ruling and will not civil war.

Civil wars didnt happen because a ruler didnt rule with an iron fist.
Civil wars happen when you feel your needs arent being met, and your desires are being ignored..
The more influence a ruler has, the higher CHANCE of a civil war if people start getting fed up that their views arent being respected.

The only time a civil war does not occur when under tyrannical rule, is if the majority of the people being ruled already see eye-to-eye with the ruler, and therefore the more influence the ruler has, then the majority of the population are still having their needs met... and the smaller groups dont have the size to adequately rebel, but thats very seldom... Thats what happened with Adolf Hitler.. not all Germans agreed with him... but a majority did...

I get what you're saying, I'm just stating that maybe there could be a submod for this, as it is quite annoying to deal with civil wars constantly.

**KAM 2150** · September 23, 2017, 01:55 PM

Depends on how you play. I NEVER had a civil war in DeI and never really did anything to prevent it either.

**KYREAPER** · September 23, 2017, 05:25 PM

I had my first ever civil war when i used my main family line and had too many "increase influence/power of your political party" traits on my 1st family generals... once it got rolling, there was no way to stop it without murdering my own guys. And sure enough I finally got a civil war... but you basically have to starve the other 3 families of influence. Its just carelessness really.

Honestly, the AI helps you prevent a civil war by trying to blackmail you, reducing your influence to keep it balanced.

If these didnt exist, it would be even EASIER to have a civil war.

Personally, I think the influence levels need a bit of changes.. Currently theres a sweetspot about 60-70% of the way down the influenced line... where theres no negatives... and the positives just keep building up from 30% up to that 70% area... Once you pass 70% influence, you start having negative effects and civil war risk.

I kind of wish there were more difficulties in the earlier percentages (20 to 60%) to show that you arent as respected, and so your morale suffers a bit because your troops will think "hmm maybe OUR general isnt the best one our country has.. maybe that general in the other family is better" which makes them question decisions and lowers morale a bit.

**Tenerife_Boy** · September 23, 2017, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

Depends on how you play. I NEVER had a civil war in DeI and never really did anything to prevent it either.

I second that.

**Asve** · September 23, 2017, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by RecKooo

Was that a reason for civil wars in Rome? I thought it was pure lust of power not feeling of being ignored. But I might be wrong having no indepth knowledge of mechanics back in antiquity. Cheers.

I agree, I think it was lust for power and the oppurtunity to hold/grab the most power. A lot of civil wars happened in Rome at the event of a power vaccum.

Some examples at the top of my head (correct me if I'm wrong):

1. When Nero committed suicide, he was the last of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, the people from Augustus/Octavian's time up to this point had grown into the Principate that no one (at least no one big) thought of going back to the old Republican days. Up to this point the Principate for them almost means Principate = Julio dynasty, and the death of Nero left them unprepared what to actually do now at the event of this scenario. In come the brief civil war of the Four emperors.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

2. The power vaccum left by the assasination of Commodus, ending the Nerva-Antonine dynasty, that paved the way for a civil war, The Year of the Five Emperors.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The civil war actually started on the murder of Commodus' successor, Pertinax. He was urban prefect at the time and was planned by the conspirators to step in the power vaccum to be left by the death of Commodus to prevent any small window of chance for aspiring Emperors. The senate, glad and relieved to be done with Commodus, rattified Pertinax's assension (who they see also as one of their own, he has been a senator) and overall, he was accepted by the empire due to his age, experiece, his reputation of wisdom, his merits, and he was just great compared to the other immediate options of people in high office.

Although on the night of Commodus' death one of the lead conspirators who went to the Praetorian Camp (I forgot his name) to fetch the Praetorian's for their support to back Pertinax. He had to bribe and promised them with great gifts and bonuses from Pertinax if they backed them. The Praetorian guard had grown spoiled under Commodus and greedily, they accepted. On all of this, Pertinax was not aware, and when he accended the throne he worked right away to fix the financial mess of the empire Commodus has left, he has always been pragmatic and he left out any previous excessive bonuses Commodus has set for the Praetorians. The Praetorians was enraged and sent him concerns him for the promises of bonuses his guy told them. In his mind, he had no use to dole out additional funds to the Praetorians and he just left them measly a small part of the promised bonuses.

I do not remember this clearly but they constantly sent their concerns Pertinax for their bonuses at the course of his 3 month reign and has always been rebuffed and ignored. Eventually they snapped and decided to march to Pertinax himself. His guy tried to appease them and decided to come with them to calm things down with Pertinax but upon reaching Pertinax he switched sides and in the Praetorian's fury they murdered him.

The Praetorians then (I don't remember if this was on the cajolling of Pertinax's guy) thought that they would still have what they wanted, what they thought they deserved and had the idea to auction the throne to the highest bidder.

The winning bidder was Didius Julianus. On the pretext of avenging Pertinax, 3 of the most powerful men in the empire Septimus Serverus, Pescenius Niger and Clodius Abinus vowed to avenge and depose Didius, starting the civil war.

Septimus got to the capital first, beheaded Didius and no, then Praetorians were not heavily punished as they feared, only disbanded.

3. The power vaccuum left by the murder of Alexander Severus, the last of the Severan dynasty that paved way for the Year of Six Emperors and eventually to the Crisis of the third century

4. The death of Caesar could also be regarded as power vacuum?

There are others more, but as I see it, civil wars (discounting unhappy allies civil wars) started with Sulla's dictatorship, Sulla proving that one guy can actually grab sole power from a Roman Republic that has one of it's core foundations was to prevent autocratic kings. Caesar could have been inspired by this and he had remarked one time that Sulla was foolish for giving up some of his dictatorial powers.

With this trend in set, the potential to own the one true power, the lure in the eyes of aspiring men brought forth the potential for civil wars.

**Dardo21** · September 24, 2017, 10:29 AM

For the anoying part of Civil Wars, is the fact that some of your armies turn hostile, but can't be raised again after you end the war.

**♔Greek Strategos♔** · September 24, 2017, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

Depends on how you play. I NEVER had a civil war in DeI and never really did anything to prevent it either.

Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy

I second that.

Same here.

**Frosthammer** · September 25, 2017, 01:36 AM

I have a problem with managing faction influence.
I am using submod "no civil war". I have a lot of characters from my party, some of then have governor skill + 0,25-0,75 your party influence per turn. Later, i realized, that submod "no sivil war doesn`t working". I use steam launcher. As i know MM doesn`t working since some patch, am i correct? Now i have 71% influence and civil war started. All other families characters turned against me, so my party influence will rise even more?
My probles is i can`t lower my party influence without loosing my oun party members wich i don`t wont do do. Well, in Attila it is mach easier to ceep neadel level of power and player party members infleunce by... stilling fund - easy waste of influence. I wish some sing wos in rome.
Is there any way to solve my influence problem without murdering my party members?

**Maetharin** · September 26, 2017, 03:06 AM

If CA's civil war mechanic weren't so messy, I'd be all for some more civil wars.
Especially for the Hellenic factions, both the Prolemies and Seleucids had more than one civil war!

**RE5PEKT** · September 26, 2017, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Frosthammer

I have a problem with managing faction influence.
I am using submod "no civil war". I have a lot of characters from my party, some of then have governor skill + 0,25-0,75 your party influence per turn. Later, i realized, that submod "no sivil war doesn`t working". I use steam launcher. As i know MM doesn`t working since some patch, am i correct? Now i have 71% influence and civil war started. All other families characters turned against me, so my party influence will rise even more?
My probles is i can`t lower my party influence without loosing my oun party members wich i don`t wont do do. Well, in Attila it is mach easier to ceep neadel level of power and player party members infleunce by... stilling fund - easy waste of influence. I wish some sing wos in rome.
Is there any way to solve my influence problem without murdering my party members?

To counter this situation hire new generals into other families and either win battles with them or let them be statesmen (by replacing them).
Set as many of your family characters as generals and leave them outside of towns and don't win battles with them (use other family members to lead armies into battles you will most probably win).

**Avarice1987** · October 01, 2017, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

Depends on how you play. I NEVER had a civil war in DeI and never really did anything to prevent it either.

And that is the Problem of DeI. Ist harder than in vanilla to become Civil War Danger. I Hope anyone can create a Submod that the Danger for CW is triggred on Empire Level 6, 7 and it break out in Level 8.

it i a Good lategame Enemy