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Thread: German elections 2017

  1. #341

    Default Re: German elections 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    The problem was never ''refugees'' to begin with.
    The problem is open borders activists trying to expand the term because opposition to mass migration is growing and it's relatively harder to say no if you call the migrant ''refuge''.
    Indeed from illegal immigrants are now ''economic migrants'' and soon ''economic refugees''.
    Everyone is a ''refugee'' so accept ''everyone''. And that's why they (the open borders crowd) ruin everything.
    Too many major forces are converging worldwide for this to happen. At the same time. I doubt motivation is (macro)economical or about increasing world gdp anymore.
    For the scale it reaches it's odd the only political opposition is Brexit (that hasn't materialized yet) and Donald. It's not very often one witnesses such a long continued agreement in democracies..

    Democracies typically headbutt all the time in the most sensible subjects at inapropriate times. Why does this particular one brings such consensus on old guard ruling parties?
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  2. #342

    Default Re: German elections 2017

    It's not even consensus. It's just fear to be branded racists. Plenty of mainstream politicians are willing to admit that it's a folly as long as it's not in front of a camera.

  3. #343

    Default Re: German elections 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    It's not even consensus. It's just fear to be branded racists. Plenty of mainstream politicians are willing to admit that it's a folly as long as it's not in front of a camera.
    I guess accusation of "racism" can be a career breaker then. Which generates an interesting hot potato dynamic, given it's impossible for a country to receive an unending supply of foreigners without getting closer and closer to implosion.
    It will eventually fall on the role of someone of old guard to eventually say something racist to preserve the institutions of his country.

    It only shows how moral compass of reference is confused, when doing all kinds of weaponry sales to unstable unpredictable middle east regions is 100% ok, but the minimal racist remark warrants imediate punishment.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  4. #344

    Default Re: German elections 2017

    There's no moral compass anymore. Everyone is sold out. They care about their little career and the gifts for allowing the money flow from the Gulf.

    It's one of those times in history where the ruling elite is simply too corrupt to do anything about ... anything. Democracy in that sense is proving to be just like any other political system, not better nor worse. Enlightened rulers lead their countries to prosperity, corrupt ones lead it to decadence. Elections don't matter, they are a facade to keep people calm that ''change'' is possible without resorting to the guillotine.

  5. #345
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: German elections 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    The point is that of differentiating more clearly between legitimate asylum seekers, refugees of war coming in from safe third countries, and economic migrants.
    This and rejected asylum seekers should be sent back immediately. The entire bureaucratic apparatus is hopelessly overburdened even with all the corrective measures that are already in effect, as proven by the last few years. There is no hope that existing law is executed with the necessary rigor and swiftness. As it is right now, Germany is at the mercy of larger geopolitics.

    The individual human right to asylum remains untouched, it really has to remain such without breaching the constitution.
    The asylum paragraph can be questioned and restricted to EU-citizens for example. If it remains valid for every hungry people on earth that's suffering a bit of a conflict this is never going to end. Attempts at changing the constitution can be undertaken and can very well be a lawful reformation.
    Last edited by swabian; October 10, 2017 at 08:46 AM.

  6. #346

    Default Re: German elections 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    There's no moral compass anymore. Everyone is sold out. They care about their little career and the gifts for allowing the money flow from the Gulf.

    It's one of those times in history where the ruling elite is simply too corrupt to do anything about ... anything. Democracy in that sense is proving to be just like any other political system, not better nor worse. Enlightened rulers lead their countries to prosperity, corrupt ones lead it to decadence. Elections don't matter, they are a facade to keep people calm that ''change'' is possible without resorting to the guillotine.
    Sir John Glubb was right after all. Question is if it's possible to do anything to revert the cycle, or just accept what is deemed as inevitable.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  7. #347

    Default Re: German elections 2017

    It's part of the cycle. Hard times>prosperity>decadence>downfall.

    It kinda sucks that we were born at the end of prosperity and the beginning of decadence while we'll have to live through the downfall.


    Edit:

    Sinn suggests to abolish minimum wage so that the German job market can absorb the refugee influx.
    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/artic...ook.shared.web
    I'm sure the Left that has embraced open borders will somehow try to spin this as a victory for the proletariat.

    Rejoice, your wage is going to zero but at least we have diversity. Open borders are totally compatible with left-wing economic goals. Not.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; October 10, 2017 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #348
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: German elections 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    This and rejected asylum seekers should be sent back immediately. The entire bureaucratic apparatus is hopelessly overburdened even with all the corrective measures that are already in effect, as proven by the last few years. There is no hope that existing law is executed with the necessary rigor and swiftness. As it is right now, Germany is at the mercy of larger geopolitics.
    From what I gather the apparatus has gained a lot in efficiency over the course of the crisis, both by increased personnel and improved procedures and communication. We're still lacking in digitalisation, as usual, but the total number of pending cases has dropped significantly since last year (see the last table on p.12 here).

    What is hampering the process is the unwillingness of third countries to cooperate in issuing preliminary identity documents (for those that lost or "lost" them) and then in actually accepting their citizens back. For that we are in fact at the mercy of geopolitics to some extent, but not as haplessly as one might think, considering the political leverage Germany has gained as one of the few countries making it stably through the finanical (and to be frank, also the migrant/refugee) crisis.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    The asylum paragraph can be questioned and restricted to EU-citizens for example. If it remains valid for every hungry people on earth that's suffering a bit of a conflict this is never going to end. Attempts at changing the constitution can be undertaken and can very well be a lawful reformation.
    Since it is Article 16 it cannot be changed like the rest of the first 20 Articles, but it does contain important restrictions on who can claim the right to political asylum, most importantly excluding those from safe third countries (notwithstanding special cases where personal persecution can be proven) and those that entered another EU country before. Of course one could have said so much earlier and sent all refugees and migrants back to Italy and Greece, but at that point it would have simply led to the collapse of at least Greece and at least a severe destabilisation of Italy, neither of which would be in our humanitarian or realpolitikal interests. So far most refugees of the Syrian civil war have only been granted subsidiary protection, not asylum anyway, as a sensible compromise between the fact that as refugees of war they require temporary shelter and the fact that they flee general violence expected to subside intermediately, not specific persecution.
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  9. #349
    NorseThing's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: German elections 2017

    Merkel has her problems in forming a now government. Even within her party there are problems.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ection-fallout

    She may want to deal with the new IdF, but unless she makes some moves to accommodate what ails the electorate, I think she will find herself with no government even thru January.
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