Should non citizens vote in local elections?

[NorseThing]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.ee50360b0e2b

So there is another town in Maryland that is going to allow all who live there to vote in local elections. Personally, I do not understand the uproar. The 19th century was filled with examples of towns doing this. If the children are going to be publicly financed for schooling, the parents or guardians should have some say in places like the election of a local school board. If the homes and retail sales are taxed we have a history of no taxation without representation that seems to support bringing all people together to decide these issues. We have mainly moved past the town meeting decision process, but hey.... this is not rocket science. We can simply keep more than one registration roll -- one for local elections and one for state elections to satisfy the constitutional requirements for national offices.

Is this non citizen voting really a big potential problem? If so, please explain so that I can understand.

[PointOfViewGun]

It is logical to do it. We're talking about non-citizen residents of course. These people have received resident permit or in addition work permit, so they should have a say in what happens in local level. They too contribute to the local economy and in some cases pay taxes.

[NorseThing]

Actually I am talking about all adults and I do not wish to confuse the national issues of citizen and entry with the local issues of adults. However there is always going to be some confusion as to who is responsible to enforce each level of laws. The problem is not a problem if the laws are enforced, but the federal level has not enforced the law effectively for some time now. Visa overstays seem to be the easiest means of becoming a resident with an 'illegal entry' status. Pres. Trump's wall does not resolve this.

Should the local school board be concerned with the Federal problem at all? The local school board is obviously more concerned with providing and administering the publicly funded education of children. So who should be the voters for such elections? The parents of only the USA citizens? How about the federal issue of legal residents versus illegal residents?

[Gaidin]

Should the local school board be concerned with the Federal problem at all? The local school board is obviously more concerned with providing and administering the publicly funded education of children. So who should be the voters for such elections? The parents of only the USA citizens? How about the federal issue of legal residents versus illegal residents?

No. If they overstay they'd stop registering to vote likely. Of course, by that time their address is already on at least ten different state records anyway. The problem of whether someone is here illegally is a problem of the federal government, and the local police don't like helping ICE because it turns off the local people to even talking to them. As for who should be the voters of such elections? That's typically the decision of state governments as they run all elections, but I have a hard time seeing it ever going further than legal residents in any logical sense.

[Prodromos]

In theory there isn't much wrong with it. In practice the immigration system is atrocious and many immigrants don't share the country's culture(s), and so their goals and interests are very different and even hostile to those of citizens. So I'm against it.

[RedGuard]

In theory there isn't much wrong with it. In practice the immigration system is atrocious and many immigrants don't share the country's culture(s), and so their goals and interests are very different and even hostile to those of citizens. So I'm against it.

what is america's culture?

[Prodromos]

what is america's culture?

There's a variety of cultures on the regional, state and local levels, but most of them have some values and practices in common, such as the English language, a JudeoChristian heritage, etc.

[Sir Adrian]

The criteria to becoming a citizen in any western country are so lax that the only people without citizenship are either those who are not interested in it or those who do not yet understand enough about the country to be able to get it. Neither group would know enough about the local situation to make an informed vote.

It is a very bad idea to let people without a stake in the community and people who do not yet know the community the right to vote.

[Basil II the B.S]

Not in a billion years. This is another globalist tactic to replenish their ranks as fast as possible because their consensus is fading and the electorate votes elsewhere. Thus, just like there's an economic replacement of the ''spoiled'' working class, there's an ethnic replacement of Westerners and there's a political replacement of voters.

Proponents should be on trial for high treason.

Want to vote? Get the citizenships following the rules. It's the same for everyone.

[NorseThing]

The criteria to becoming a citizen in any western country are so lax that the only people without citizenship are either those who are not interested in it or those who do not yet understand enough about the country to be able to get it. Neither group would know enough about the local situation to make an informed vote.

It is a very bad idea to let people without a stake in the community and people who do not yet know the community the right to vote.

Who is to judge what constitutes an informed vote? If your children are in a publicly funded school and you attend a church of your choice, it this not sufficient to have a stake in a community? How about simply renting a room in a boarding / flop house? Sufficient stake in the community seems a bit fuzzy.

[Sir Adrian]

Common sense and the citizenship test. You cannot understand the needs o a community unless you live there for several years. It does not matter where your children go to school, that only gives you the right to determine how the school dpends its money, or how big your house is. All that matters is that you understand local culture and needs. Non-citizens lack that understanding (haven't passed the test) or don't want to vote (don't want citizenship).

[Iskar]

It is already quite common that legal residents, whether citizens of the respective coutry or not, take part in municipal elections, which is perfectly fine, as they also pay taxes where they live (VAT, income tax, business tax, automobile tax, etc.) so there is no reason to refuse them representation on the local, non-legislative level.
It is just as correct, though, to not let them vote in elections above the municipal level (regional, national, European) that confer legislative authority to the elected bodies (municipal representations can only issue administrative decrees and regulations without legislative power - at least in Germany).

Is there really that much to discuss, given the distinction between legislative (fine to vote for only by citizens) and non-legislative (fine to vote for by all residents) representations?

[Gaidin]

Is there really that much to discuss, given the distinction between legislative (fine to vote for only by citizens) and non-legislative (fine to vote for by all residents) representations?

In theory there's not really that much to discuss. It's always practicality of implementation based on location and how things are administered. This is where we get into the nuts and bolts of any given government and how they run their elections and the bureaucracy thereof, and how hard it would be, politically or otherwise, to change it.

[RubiconDecision]

What a bizarre country America has become where legal immigrants who follow the law are penalized by waiting their turn through a designated process including security checks, while others due to proximity can flout the law AND expect political representation.

What's more, instead of the politicians shepherding their constituency, they break existing US Federal laws in order to economically aid illegals. Weird...surely that will have no deleterious economic and social effects upon employment, services, medicine, crime, education, and adaptation.

Why stop there? As they are illegally present within borders allow them to work, purchase firearms, drive vehicles, etc regardless of the consequences. Let them be educators, lawyers, physicians and EVEN law enforcement officers.

[Gaidin]

What a bizarre country America has become where legal immigrants who follow the law are penalized by waiting their turn through a designated process including security checks, while others due to proximity can flout the law AND expect political representation.

What's more, instead of the politicians shepherding their constituency, they break existing US Federal laws in order to economically aid illegals. Weird...surely that will have no deleterious economic and social effects upon employment, services, medicine, crime, education, and adaptation.

Why stop there? As they are illegally present within borders allow them to work, purchase firearms, drive vehicles, etc regardless of the consequences. Let them be educators, lawyers, physicians and EVEN law enforcement officers.

[NorseThing]

Common sense and the citizenship test. You cannot understand the needs o a community unless you live there for several years. It does not matter where your children go to school, that only gives you the right to determine how the school dpends its money, or how big your house is. All that matters is that you understand local culture and needs. Non-citizens lack that understanding (haven't passed the test) or don't want to vote (don't want citizenship).

Citizenship test? I was born a citizen and thus there was no test and no proof that I understand anything. Yet I get to vote. I may be simply throwing dice to make my decisions, but they are my decisions. As proof of my probable lack of understanding you may simply poll the other members who respond to my posts in the Mudpit. I pretty certain that many would not trust my judgment to make the 'right' decisions.

[Sir Adrian]

Citizenship test? I was born a citizen and thus there was no test and no proof that I understand anything. Yet I get to vote. I may be simply throwing dice to make my decisions, but they are my decisions. As proof of my probable lack of understanding you may simply poll the other members who respond to my posts in the Mudpit. I pretty certain that many would not trust my judgment to make the 'right' decisions.

Being born into a culture is one thing, coming to it from a completely different culture is another. Having lived there for many years and having been educated there you already have the understanding necessary to make a decision. Immigrants do not. They require time to acclimate and adapt and get over the culture shock. The test is to determine if they have indeed come to understand the new country, as evidenced by the fact that citizenship tests are made of basic national interest topics that you learn in school.

[athanaric]

Is this non citizen voting really a big potential problem? If so, please explain so that I can understand.

The suggestion that non-citizens should be allowed to vote in regional elections is a common tenet of the political "left" on this side of the pond. It's also ing retarded, like most of their beliefs. Because even if we're talking about legal immigrants/residents (anyone who suggests that illegal aliens should be allowed to vote should be euthanized ASAP on account of lacking a functional brain, and wasting everybody else's oxygen), it undermines the state and removes incentives to seek citizenship.

[RubiconDecision]

Would anyone become a citizen if you let aliens and illegal immigrants vote locally?

You know, I like that immigrants have to pass a citizenship test to become a citizen. They typically are proud of being Americans through that acculturation process. If anything, maybe everyone should have to pass the citizenship test who isn't mentally handicapped and living in an institution. They would automatically get it at birth, but everyone else would have to learn our history, demonstrate mastery of English, and describe our political process.

How can you be a citizen unless you know these things? How could you vote?

[Copperknickers II]

I think anyone who is planning on living in a place for a long-term period (say, more than 5 years) should get the vote. Citizens should not have the vote in a country they don't live in if they have been away for 5 or more years (excepting those working for a public or private organisation in their home territory, like those in the armed forces). I wouldn't mind the idea of only citizens having the right to vote if it were easier to become a citizen but at the moment so many people are excluded from citizenship (especially in the USA, to a lesser extent in some other places) that's not workable.