Confused aobut Fatigue system

[Pherion]

Where can I find info on the Fatigue mechanic? I tried searching around but couldn't find anything.

I want to know how to make my units stop routing for no good reason. More often then I'd care to, I see my men running when they barely have any casualties, like assaulting city walls and immediately running away as soon as they spot a moving helmet on the other side...

Sieges are the worst, when I break trough the walls, and send some units in, they always end up on falling back instead of fighting.

Open field battles are better, but I always get huge routs during a battle I'm clearly winning, and have to rely on the triarii to finish the job. Even the general runs away...

[FlashHeart07]

Git gud.
But also, make sure you dont play on any battle difficulty higher than normal, unless ofc you enjoy losing to a bunch of peasants
Make sure you dont run all the way towards the enemy line. Fatigued soldiers rout more easily.



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[Pherion]

Git gud doesn't help anyone.

I play on normal and I never run towards the enemy. This happens during the fighting. Because beyond the game's own vanilla fatigue system, DeI adds it's own on top of that, and that's the one I want to learn more about. That button that exists over each unit that either says "Fatigue(High) or Fatigue(Low).

[gornoviceanu]

OK so.. first off all, fatigue affects morale. It is not a decisive factor, but it can lower it and combined with other factors (like being under missile fire, being flanked, fighting scary enemies like cavalry or naked mad men) it can be that boiling point that makes your troops break. So technically it is not that big of a deal.. but:

Fatigue also affects fighting capabilities. As an example (maybe not a accurate one, but the mechanic works like this) as your men grow more and more tired (fresh, active, winded, tired, very tired, exhausted) their fighting capabilities (stats) get lower and lower. As such, your troops will fight with lower stat skills like "melee attack" or "melee defense" if they are tired. The negative bonuses keep raking up as your troops get more and more tired, and fulminates with about less than half stats when exhausted. Long story short, your elite units will seem like a rabble if you send them in exhausted against fresh troops.

Now, the morale system works in such a way that if a unit is getting it's ass kicked on the field, they will start wavering and finally rout. Things like a K/D ratio massively in favor of the enemy, suffering casualties or being outmatched in the fight will all add up and at a certain point make your troops rout. When you see your Hastatii are beginning to get tired, I recommend you push in your Principes line and while they charge in and double stack your Hastatii, you can pull the later back. I find that doing this in that moment reduces casualties when pulling out your units. Send them at the back of your army, let them rest and use them in emergency situations if gets real in the battle.



edit: that fatigue button you mention is there only to show how much stamina each unit has. Most heavy infantry have low stamina while light infantry will have a higher fatigue button. This is only something to make stamina behave differently by the type of armor units wear.

[Falco]

What faction are you playing as?

[Pherion]

edit: that fatigue button you mention is there only to show how much stamina each unit has. Most heavy infantry have low stamina while light infantry will have a higher fatigue button. This is only something to make stamina behave differently by the type of armor units wear.

That was the only thing I wanted to know. I know how fatigue works, as I play older Total War games as well. I just wanted to know if that did something. Apparently not much.

But does DeI changes the vanilla fatigue system though? It seems harder to manage compared to Rome 2 vanilla. Atleast I didn't had to worry to much about it before. It's not a complain, it's great but I just wanted to know if it changes it or not.

[RE5PEKT]

Unit's get tired faster, but also regain energy faster.

[RE5PEKT]

Also the effects on morale are higher.

[hoho96]

That Stamina button (it's not a button, but a tooltip on the unit) tells you how effective your unit can handle fatigue.
A unit with high stamina can run faster, fatigue less, and if exhausted can refresh faster when out of combat.
Low stamina means your unit can't run as fast, and will regain freshness much slower than a unit with higher stamina.

It's weird you're mentioning Rome because Rome is probably the faction with the least possibility of mass routs due to all core units having the Disciplined trait.
You're not meant to keep a unit in the fight until the last man standing. If a unit defeated its enemy, it may be a good idea to pull it back and replace it with a fresh one, or leave it for a few seconds to refresh.
Routs can rarely happen just because your units are exhausted. It's a culminations of many negatives added together. So if your units are routing, then there must be something wrong with your battle tactics IMO :/


EDIT: I was just playing a battle where I had a Hastati down to around 48 (almost 75% losses) and yet still fighting the good fight It may be that you need to check how your units are doing more regularly since if a units is flanked and overwhelmed it will die and rout much faster (square formation is your friend ).

[marmil86]

A good general can work miracles

In my example Spartan seven rank general can make even helots decently stand ground until their almost total annihilation.

so have a good general....

Plus, army traditions, tech tree etc... various factors and perks add up, and you witness your units can stay in battle much longer than AI at the end...What's more,AI will always tire its troops , never efficiently flank as a player, so AI armies should withstand always greater moral shocks on the battlefiled...

[Pherion]

You were right, I was using them very poorly. But now I pay careful attention to what's going on the battlefield and now I rarely get mass routs or routs at all, and as soon my front line troops receive casualties and are becoming too tired, I pull them back and replace them with the principes. And when those get tired I swap them out as well. I'm constantly cycling my units, but that has been helping me quite a lot. And this is possible to do because of the slow battles, if they were fast, this wouldn't work at all.

[VladoBlood]

You were right, I was using them very poorly. But now I pay careful attention to what's going on the battlefield and now I rarely get mass routs or routs at all, and as soon my front line troops receive casualties and are becoming too tired, I pull them back and replace them with the principes. And when those get tired I swap them out as well. I'm constantly cycling my units, but that has been helping me quite a lot. And this is possible to do because of the slow battles, if they were fast, this wouldn't work at all.

Good to know you found out how to better use your units in open battlefield, its always key to never commit your entire army at once and keep units in reserve.

Also in regards to your first post about sieges, in sieges your units will have greater disadvantages and the enemy a bigger morale and better position. DEI has made it as it should be where you will most cases, need much more units than the defending force, (in regards to walled settlements), so try to always bring extra units for those since you will have much more routing on your side.

[Asve]

and as soon my front line troops receive casualties and are becoming too tired, I pull them back and replace them with the principes. And when those get tired I swap them out as well. I'm constantly cycling my units, but that has been helping me quite a lot. And this is possible to do because of the slow battles, if they were fast, this wouldn't work at all.

Also one thing I noticed which was to my delight (because it feels more realistic) that when you set troops on hold and let them eat the charge rather than counter charge (double clicking, or one clicking the enemy) their stamina drains more slowly. After a some minutes the enemy who charged at you is should now be tired or winded and your holding troops are still fresh - it is then you now order an attack.

I imagine this as disciplined troops being able to fight conservatively/defensively behind their shields for a time and then when the officers have seen that the enemy has been winded down enough, they give orders for their units to push back now, slamming their shields against the enemy and going to town. Although I imagine this method more describes how the Romans fight because on what I've learned so far about them matches this very much.

I'm not sure if this was already on Rome 1 or Vanilla Rome 2 before but if it's new, it really adds more dynamic to the battles wherein before I had just to rely on constant hammer and anvil with my cav to rout enemies.

Rome is the current and only faction I play, but I've also noticed this mechanic on mercenary hoplites so I assume it applies to all heavy infantry - but I've also read somewhere in the 1.2+ changelogs that Romans? or Marian and Imperial Legionaries? are changed wherein it is better for them to eat the charge than counter charge.

[hoho96]

It's the Marian and Imperial Legionaries that can eat the charges. They got the "defense expert" trait that gives them the bonus to charging units that spear units usually get.
Polybian Hastati don't do very well on the wrong end of a charge though, and you should generally charge them against all but pikes and cav.

The no-counter-charge defense is especially viable for hoplites, pikes, and heavy spears. Lighter units will suffer a lot of casualties if left to receiving charging enemies.