Crusades Hotseat [Kingdoms Crusades HS]

[Errichto]

It isn't forbidden. If I'm wrong, please quote the rule.

I find it funny that I proposed to introduce such a rule (page 3, second post). I said defeats might be abused to kill generals. Nobody supported my proposal.

And one last rule I want to add is "forbidden to attack and not win". I don't want people to attack me with a small suicidal force just to kill a general.

[Captainnorway]

the rule about sallying out is for normal battles too, as the rules were copied not everything is worded ideal.
i cant name one hs where posting defeats is allowed.

[Errichto]

I would understand if you wanted that rule but forgot to write it. Is it the case? But what you actually wrote is absurd to me.

1) Some things aren't that clear in the rules and I understand arguing about them. But the rule "Not allowed to sally out if the result is a defeat" says about sallying out explicitly. You can't just say it's for normal battles too. And this "not allowed to sally out and lose" has an obvious reason, as it denies sacking. It's a completely different thing from what I did.

2) "as the rules were copied not everything is worded ideal" - Copying can't make anything worded badly, right? Unless some words were removed or added by mistake.

3) "i cant name one hs where posting defeats is allowed." - And what does it imply? I think that the recent TFK hotseat also lacked some common rules (e.g about posting pics of everything). The absence of rule meant that there is no such rule.

And as I said, I did propose that rule. You wrote a post yourself a few hours later, commenting some things from my post but not that particular proposal. If you indeed wanted that rule, you should have said something back then.

[Captainnorway]

i’m not arguing about the rule, either you replay or i do.
the rule is common in all hotseats

[Errichto]

It's bad if an admin doesn't care about reasoning. I proposed a rule, nobody cared, now suddenly the rule applies.

For many turns I kept a small force close to the border with Jerusalem, waiting for an opportunity to strike. I wouldn't do it if there was such a rule. I want my upkeep money back.

[Errichto]

Egypt again (turn 8) - https://ufile.io/apwrl
I didn't attack Jerusalem this time so we shouldn't be enemies in the diplomacy sheet. Pbob, you can check that to make sure you're doing a turn from a good save file.

It's sad that pbob must redo his turn too. CptNorway, can you please update the rules? If there is some general set of rules that you want to include (those "common in all hosteats"), please give us a link. I see a few hotseats without this rule, so it isn't true that it's everywhere and it just wasn't posted here. How are we supposed to know what you treat as "common in all hotseats"?

Since we apparently don't follow the list of rules you posted, I have some questions.

Are bribed armies and agents allowed to move the same turn? Can I go into unlimited debt? Are AR battles allowed? What is the required % for merchants? Do spies have to leave a settlement just before opening gates (in case they were there before)? Luring an ambushing army one tile closer? Positioning units in such a way that I can reach the enemy and he can't reach me (even though nobody has MP buffs)? Walls of units to block enemy agents? Blocking bridges (also to deny enemy agents to pass through)? Is port a military building? Can I always destroy temples, even if I fight with enemy of the same religion? Can I put units of any quantity in forts, e.g. 1 man each? Are ballistae allowed to attack any walls? Can a ballista be used more than once per turn? Can a spy be used more than once per turn to open gates? Are heroic battles allowed? Are naval heroic battles allowed? Any extra forbidden things from recent Ventos's list in the tavern?

And I still want my money back, for upkeep of forces that were of no use for me because of the new rule.

[paladinbob123]

I would think that there is little scope for raising the tempo of this argument , as the admin is the overall co-ordinator for the game. If you [errichto] are upset by perhaps the admin conditions , perhaps a compremise can be made [if the admin and other players agree]...that the admin will review the rules..and perhaps add/clarify[edit] all the rules in the list at the first thread . All the players must then give in writing [on this forum] that they have read,understood & agree to the following rules without restriction. I propose that the turn be carried as done for the moment , and then any future "infringements" will be a no-questioning of the admin rights and rules. I for one , ,have no complaint with continuing with what is done for the moment , but having all the rules clarified for those that are finding them ambiguous, but as I said, I think we all should check and read the admended/clarified rule page after correction[on the first] and give notice that they have read the rules , have no issues with them , and that the admin's ruling is final without question for any further problems. Does this sound , like a reasonable compromise , to clarify the situation?

[Errichto]

I always read rules at the start of the HS. And I complain if I don't like something. Here I complained about the lack of this exact rule. I proposed introducing it. As you can see, it doesn't give anything if the admin isn't going to argue anyway.

I think everybody automatically agree for the rules just by playing. No need to saying "I have read and I accept". What we need is those rules being written down.

[Captainnorway]

Bribed armies are allowed to move the same turn they were bribed.
you can go as much in debt as you want.
This is a manual battle HS(that is stated in the rules )
Merchants are only allowed to be bribed in your own regions or regions you have trade rights to, any %.
Spies have to re-enter settlements.
Luring ambushing armies are allowed.
you are allowed to surround agent, but not stomp them.
You can block bridges to alter their escape route, it's not allowed if it denies them from retreating and killing the whole army.
Ports are military buildings, but you're not allowed to destroy them if they are blockaded or a superior army is in range. same goes for all buildings.
you can always destroy temples.
Any quantity of men are allowed in forts.
Siege equipment are only allowed to attack once per turn.
Ballista can attack any settlement.
A spy can only enter one settlement per turn, it's not possible to enter two settlements in the game.
Heroic battles are allowed in land battles.
Ventos's tactics are allowed.

I'll update the rules.

[Errichto]

"Bribed armies are allowed to move the same turn they were bribed." - then I propose to forbid that, because it favors people early in the turn order.

"This is a manual battle HS(that is stated in the rules )" - the rules say we might fight manually. I'm asking if we are allowed to fight with AR.

"Ports are military buildings, but you're not allowed to destroy them if they are blockaded or a superior army is in range. same goes for all buildings." - I don't get the last few words. I thought non-military buildings can't be destroyed at all.

"Siege equipment are only allowed to attack once per turn." - Eh. I asked "no siege eq rules?" at the very beginning. This rule is extremely important and I thought we don't have it. Well, good to know now.

"A spy can only enter one settlement per turn, it's not possible to enter two settlements in the game." - a spy can be in one settlement already, be used to open gates, then move to the next settlement. So it's possible in the game, just not allowed by "have to re-enter" rule.

"Heroic battles are allowed in land battles." - what about naval battles?

I'm going to assume that it's allowed to do anything from my post that you didn't mention. Ok?

[Captainnorway]

You are not allowed to destroy buildings when a superior enemy army is in range of the settlement since they might capture the settlement. and ports can't be destroyed if they are blockaded by enemy ships since your ships are trapped in the port when blockaded and this would free them.
you are only allowed to destroy churches/mosques (religion buildings), Guilds, Military buildings and buildings that can produce spies/assassins.

I don't read through the whole thread, if I forgot to write down a rule that is my bad. if I stated something else earlier just point me to the page and I will revert the rule.

Naval Heroic victories are not allowed.

If you are unsure about something and think it might be illegal just ask me in pm, but anything not stated in the rules should be allowed. might be some few cases where it isn't written down.

Edit: I also understand that it is my bad for not looking thoroughly at the rules when I got them

[Errichto]

The issue was that I was sure it's allowed - otherwise I would ask you.

I still want my money back. With words "if I forgot to write down a rule that is my bad" you admitted the absence of the rule is your fault, and I'm saying it caused me to keep a few units ready to kill some general of Jer (what I eventually did in this turn, before replaying). No matter what your decision is about it, we should continue. That money wouldn't change my turn.

EDIT: also want to make sure about one thing that is forbidden almost everywhere else. Are we allowed to besiege a fort/settlement in order to deny enemy from retreating there, or in order to deny the garrison from the battle?

[Captainnorway]

you can siege it to prevent an army to retreat there, but not to deny the garrison from assisting in battle

[paladinbob123]

Antioch up

took rebel settlement..[feelings of deja-vu.. :d]

naval clash in middle east sea [pushed single fleet out of the way...apologies Antioch it was in the way...but it is still alive..]

screenshots on request

https://www.dropbox.com/s/isn3zqlm8w...ioch8.sav?dl=0

[HouseStarkFTW]

Jerusalem: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8k6gm7gqn...lem_9.sav?dl=0

[LordPureLegacy]

May I ask but where is my force in the East did it rebel?. If it did, did someone take it out such as Turks?.

Got most of my turn or half of it done tonight will finish up tomorrow morning and I can assure you pics not only on Antioch.

[Errichto]

What force? Check your number of lost battles in this and the previous turn. If it increased, it means rebels attacked you or someone didn't post pics.

[LordPureLegacy]

Byzantine Up!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7F...ew?usp=sharing

On the year 1190 word is received that The Crown Prince as Salih of the Turks leads a scouting party raiding the people of Damascus attacking villages, caravans, and etc. General Ralph Allen reacts to this news by going out to slay Salih himself eager to this he knows that he cannot face him alone with him and his bodyguard so he sends word of hiring mercenaries in the area and a company of Crusader Knights join him for this battle. Allen leads his men into battle against the so called Holy Soldier of Salih. Turks being well known for their skirmish tactics Allen reacted to this by first taking out Salih with him and his Crusader Knights and then cornering the Turkish Skirmishers with splitting his forces up. After defeating the Prince's forces he said a prayer for his death; "May God Forgive You For Your Sins, You May Fight Hard With Fire But One Is Only So Holy If Then There In His Final Moment He Realizes His Mistakes For You Only Cursed My Men As They Put A Lance Into Your Chest". Allen him and his men already being tired from the battle cannot march any further and needed rest as they rest Allen realizes that the info he received of the size of Salih's force was not precise but later find a Manuscript stating that he had split his forces in two across the land of Damascus putting them in the command of Jalal Al Rashid. General Ralph Allen sends word with the fastest of his men to the King stating that he immediately needed to send a force to deal with Rashid. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7F...ew?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7F...ew?usp=sharing)

General Jasper Terret in the room when the King receives this info volunteers to go deal with the force for he had the skills to get him and his men there in such time. The King knowing that Jasper was new in his court wanted to see his new skills and what victories he would bring so furthermore Jasper was sent. Jasper same as Allen hired a company of mercenaries to defeat Rashid. Jasper swiftly defeated him and his force with ease for Rashid was inexperienced with no idea how to lead an army so furthermore he was captured along with some of his men. Rashid was spared for ransom for Jasper gave mercy to him hoping to again fight him and that he would one day become a better commander to fight. The Sultan of Turks knowing that there was few generals that can even come close to the responsibility of Rashid accepted the 1000 ransom and hoped that after Rashid's first defeat he would become a great commander. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7F...ew?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7F...ew?usp=sharing)

Before all these events concurred on the year of 1190 King Baldwin sends word to Egypt discussing the offer they were going to make to Antioch and they furthermore gave consent to this decision and approved it to be done. King Baldwin then meets with Prince Regent Galoys that he offered the Principality of Antioch to be a vassal of Jerusalem and abandon their cruel alliance with Turks. The terms of this agreement would be the repent and execution of King Reynald, Protection of Antioch from Turkish forces, full representation in Diplomacy, and further terms to be discussed at a later date. Galoys agrees to this knowing that Antioch is crippled and could no longer protect themselves at the current time. After the signed agreement the King of France Phillip arrives with an army for Antioch to begin this new era with Jerusalem. Not long after Phillip but King Richard of England arrives for Jerusalem and leads the now new victorious crusaders.

Done with my turn here is some answers to kamil's questions on some stuff, I got an adoption for a general with the "Eager" trait and sent it do Damascus so that next turn I would have enough mp to attack his prince if he did not move it. During all the battles with Antioch I got a captain turning into a general option with the "Drillmaster" trait so that i could have enough mp next turn to take out the other scouting force. Other than all this I am done I feel like I made some mistakes but I think I am good.

Last thing this a reaction to what Celival told me in chat on steam, I do feel good about myself taking out most of Antioch's forces which is more than what you did combined so far in Crusades, I don't feel like I am better than anyone in this hot seat because I only felt that it marked a new age where I was getting better at hot seats. I consider paladin bob to be superior to me for he has far more experience than me and even though he has not done much in the hot seat so far, Errichoto I consider highly superior to me for he rekt me in Teutonic and I have always looked forward to a rematch and hoped to prove myself against him. Stark I consider an equal and maybe better than me for what he said he made a lot of mistakes in this hot seat, and Celival I don't care even if I was worse than you which I don't believe I am for you rarely try in hot seats once you start losing and you played accordingly to Errichoto's plan without knowing.

[CelivalTheGreat]

Emperor Stefanos decided after losing his brother, to ally the Turks.
The Byzantine Empire will always help out their allies and fight with them to the end.

[CelivalTheGreat]

Turks

https://www.mediafire.com/file/5p6jf...es_turks_9.sav