Do you adopt?

[NorseThing]

If so, what do the acceptable adoptions have for traits and what is an unacceptable adoption trait. Do you wed your adoptions so that they produce children?

[Silverheart]

I adopt all the time.
Mostly, I base the decision on how loyal they are; if they have more than 6 loyalty, then I usually accept, unless they have some really bad traits (like "actively disloyal" and such).

I figure that it's always good to have more family members (read: general's bodyguards) to spread out around my empire.

[Librarian]

I never adopt, unless there are extenuating circumstances. I have adopted a supremely confident commander when I just couldn't pass him up. But for me the royal bloodline is really important and generally roleplay wise I feel it would have been unacceptable to adopt a son and then treat him as if he were my own with inheritance rights and the like. In my head, the adoptions cheapen the royal bloodline.

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[UndrState]

I try and avoid adopting , keeping the bloodline pure is both a challenge and aesthetically interesting . There are three good guides on breeding and training that I think are worth reading , if you are not already aware of them :

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...ur-family-tree

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...fect-statesman

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...i-s-The-Prince

That said , a good family name ( along with good traits , esp. hard to get ones ) can turn my head .

[NorseThing]

I try and avoid adopting , keeping the bloodline pure is both a challenge and aesthetically interesting . There are three good guides on breeding and training that I think are worth reading , if you are not already aware of them :

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...ur-family-tree

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...fect-statesman

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...i-s-The-Prince

That said , a good family name ( along with good traits , esp. hard to get ones ) can turn my head .

Thanks. I will b e certain to read up your links.

[lolIsuck]

I generally try to limit adoptions but I'm not going to pass on younger generals with great traits. I'd rather not have them be faction leader in most cases though, keeping the ruling family in power is fun roleplay. Too bad that Medieval2 completely fails when it comes to succession.

[krazyfilmer123]

I personally do not adopt anyone, except for only one general at the beginning of the campaign. From there, any daughter born from that tree marries the main family that is pure. It feels a lot more rewarding to get yourself generals from the royal bloodline, especially when you get yourself a lot of "Born Conquerors". Sometimes they just end up being insane, infertile, or even worse, inbred. For me, at least it's better than having someone automatically handed to you with great stats, which isn't really rewarding.

[Frunk]

Thread moved from Medieval II: Total War General Discussion.

That said , a good family name ( along with good traits , esp. hard to get ones ) can turn my head .

Interesting! What makes a good family name? Do you have some you prefer, or do you base this in history?

[UndrState]

Interesting! What makes a good family name? Do you have some you prefer, or do you base this in history?

You know , something a little macho , a little cool , a little extraordinary - for example , looking at England's list of family names , ones like "Blacke" , "Gryffin" , and "Heaven" stick out as names that might look particularly good as a good "Tudor" to my original "Plantagenet" line . The same would be true for any other faction.

Sometimes they just end up being insane, infertile, or even worse, inbred.

Just want to underline that , contrary to popular opinion , the "Incest" traits are not related at all to any actual inbreeding you might do , but rather there is a flat 4% chance with any new born of getting that trait . ( you may have known that, just something I try and dispel as often as possible ) .

[Librarian]

You know , something a little macho , a little cool , a little extraordinary - for example , looking at England's list of family names , ones like "Blacke" , "Gryffin" , and "Heaven" stick out as names that might look particularly good as a good "Tudor" to my original "Plantagenet" line . The same would be true for any other faction.





Just want to underline that , contrary to popular opinion , the "Incest" traits are not related at all to any actual inbreeding you might do , but rather there is a flat 4% chance with any new born of getting that trait . ( you may have known that, just something I try and dispel as often as possible ) .

Is there actually any genetic or inheritance in M2TW, are any traits hereditary? It seems a simplified system which would be unlikely to have such complexity, in comparison to other games (ie CK2)

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[krazyfilmer123]

Is there actually any genetic or inheritance in M2TW, are any traits hereditary? It seems a simplified system which would be unlikely to have such complexity, in comparison to other games (ie CK2)

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Yeh, all traits are hereditary but there is a slight chance that they will pass on. Some traits are easier to pass than others. Physical traits are incredibly easy to pass on, so if you have a handsome father you will likely have a handsome son. If you have a bloody ugly father, same deal.

I'm doing a Spanish campaign, and 2 generals were born very ugly despite their fathers not being such. I was surprised due to the small chances of getting this. There is a useful guide made by a guy named Salisian regarding every single trait any character can get. I suggest you take a look; it explains the probabilities of getting them as well as how to get them.

Here's the guide

[UndrState]

Yeh, all traits are hereditary but there is a slight chance that they will pass on.

I hope that's a typo , since , being aware of Salisian's guide , you should be aware that this is not true at all . The majority of traits are not heritable in any sense ( heritability here meaning having a chance of getting X trait because a father had the same trait ) ; beyond that there are some traits that may be gained because the father had a different ( often opposite , in some sense ) trait .

At a rough count , just for Faction Members (so not counting agents including Princesses ) , 37 traits were heritable ( I only counted once even if there was more than one check ) , and 25 traits had a counter-heritable ( read : different trait ) check .

EDIT: Let me add that many traits that there is plenty of overlap between the heritable and count-heritable checks .

[krazyfilmer123]

My bad; some traits are hereditary but not all of them and i just realized that i goofed up there. Also yes, I am aware of that opposite effects thing; it's why alcoholic fathers get sober sons and how energetic fathers get lazy sons.

Thanks for correction

[Librarian]

That's really interesting, similar to real life. (If we want an example from a well known show, Tywin Lannister and Tytos, the Toothless Lion.) People who dislike such in their parents becoming opposite to them. Is there any table with each trait and which are counter-inheritiable etc?

[NorseThing]

I hope that's a typo , since , being aware of Salisian's guide , you should be aware that this is not true at all . The majority of traits are not heritable in any sense ( heritability here meaning having a chance of getting X trait because a father had the same trait ) ; beyond that there are some traits that may be gained because the father had a different ( often opposite , in some sense ) trait .

At a rough count , just for Faction Members (so not counting agents including Princesses ) , 37 traits were heritable ( I only counted once even if there was more than one check ) , and 25 traits had a counter-heritable ( read : different trait ) check .

EDIT: Let me add that many traits that there is plenty of overlap between the heritable and count-heritable checks .

Where can I find Salisian's guide of? It sounds interesting to read.

[UndrState]

Where can I find Salisian's guide of? It sounds interesting to read.

krazyfilmer123 linked to the guide 5 ( 6? ) posts up , check it out .

I'm a little ashamed to admit , I have a copy of this ( among others ) printed up , so I can read it on the can .

That's really interesting, similar to real life. (If we want an example from a well known show, Tywin Lannister and Tytos, the Toothless Lion.) People who dislike such in their parents becoming opposite to them. Is there any table with each trait and which are counter-inheritiable etc?

No , only resource is the guide krazyfilmer123 shared above . But you can do what I did , Ctrl-F in the guide and word search for "father" ; note though that you will also see some traits that will be checked for when a Faction Member becomes a father.

[NorseThing]

Thanks UndrState. I have now printed it as well but will not state were I will read it.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

If the name sticks out, I tend to go for it. I'll even take disloyal ones for the comedy of it - not every fellow you get is going to be a favorable addition, and sometimes you don't truly know just how loyal/favorable someone is until after you get them.

But if the name doesn't catch on, I will likely say "meh" and pass them by.

[Slaytaninc]

I'm not particularly concerned with the purity of a bloodline but there's something odd about your 16 year old newb adopting some 36 year old even if he's got amazing stats so I generally only adopt people who are substantially younger. Partially means you get a younger general. Adoption just didn't seem to be as common or free in medieval Europe as it was in Rome.

[Vlad Dracul]

Although I started to play this game 11 years ago (not constantly but with big breaks, sometimes not touchin' it for more than 1 year), only recently I begun to pay more attention to those details, like the heritage traits and I started to read all those topics with keeping your blood-line pure etc.

I actually don't get it, what's that good for? Does it have any practical use, except role-playing?

Just to give an example, one of the many I encountered, in an experimental HRE long campaign (Vanilla 1.52 Steam version, vh/vh), all pure blood descendants are degenerates.
They are Slothful, Disgusted by Blood, Hypochondriac, they Speak of Loyalty, Admirer of Beauty, Underhanded, Extravagant, Incompetent Trader, Plain, Poor Speaker, Not Constructive, Aloof, Skewed View, Fraudulent, Dubious, Faltering Courage, they Feel Unappreciated (no shít?!) etc. I can't bare lookin' at them, it makes me sick.

So, after seein' that I logically prefer adoptions, at least there I can choose generals with good traits like Drillmaster, Marks of War, Smart, Very Loyal, Confident Attacker/Defender, Understands Logistics, Brave, Aspiring Commander plus they can be 4-5 stars generals right from the start.
And their sons are actually quite decent human beings, with positive traits.
Unlike those worthless "pure blood" degenerates.

And yeah, before comin' of age I did reload a couple of times in order to re-roll the traits.
The result was only a slight damage control, they remained the same degenerates they're meant to be.
(Yes, I know, I said "degenerates" 10.000 times, but the truth is that they're just disgusting effin' degenerates. They make me sick!)