View Poll Results: Do you think occupying/bombing muslim countries reduces terrorism?

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  • Absolutely. Terrorists are being defeated 17 years now

    4 18.18%
  • Withdraw troops and recognize Taliban

    3 13.64%
  • Yes there is a spike in terrorism but things will be worse if we leave

    10 45.45%
  • We cant win but at least we can make money

    5 22.73%
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Thread: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

  1. #1
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.3f46da644ee1

    President Trump outlined a revised vision for the U.S. war in Afghanistan on Monday, pledging to end a strategy of “nation-building” and instead institute a policy aimed more squarely at addressing the terrorist threat that emanates from the region.“I share the American people’s frustration,” he said. “I also share their frustration over a foreign policy that has spent too much time, energy, money — and, most importantly, lives — trying to rebuild countries in our own image instead of pursuing our security interests above all other considerations.”
    But Trump provided few specifics about his policy and how much the U.S. military commitment in the region would increase as a result, insisting that conditions on the ground would determine troop levels and strategy.
    Trump’s decision to further commit to the nation’s longest war, rather than withdraw, reflects a significant shift in his approach to Afghanistan since taking office and marks a new willingness to take greater ownership of a protracted conflict that he had long dismissed as a waste of time and resources. As a candidate, Trump denounced Afghanistan as a “total disaster” and railed that the costly conflict in Central Asia drained enormous resources at a time of more pressing needs at home for American taxpayers.
    “My original instinct was to pull out, and historically I like to follow my instincts,” Trump said in his first prime-time address, delivered from the Fort Myer military base in Arlington, Va. “I heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk of the Oval Office.”
    Trump’s new approach to Afghanistan is the result of a long policy review within his administration that was finalized during a presidential retreat with top advisers at Camp David on Friday.
    His decision to endorse a Pentagon plan to boost troop levels reflects mounting concern among military leaders that battlefield setbacks for Afghan government forces against the Taliban and al-Qaeda have led to a rapidly deteriorating security situation.
    Although Trump did not specify how many more troops will be sent to Afghanistan, congressional officials said the administration has told them it will be about 4,000 more than the 8,500 U.S. service members currently in the region.
    In his speech Monday, Trump laid out a strategy that included pressuring Pakistan to do more to stop terrorists from finding safe haven within its borders. He also said that India would play a greater role in providing economic and developmental support.

    Trump acknowledged that his approach is a departure from his campaign rhetoric, but he said he would prioritize American security over attempting to “dictate” to the Afghan people how to live.
    He called his approach “principled realism” and portrayed it as in keeping with the “America First” approach of his administration. He pledged that U.S. troops would have a clear definition of victory in Afghanistan, but offered only a broad outline of what that would mean.
    “Our troops will fight to win,” Trump said. “From now on, victory will have a clear definition: attacking our enemies, obliterating ISIS, crushing al-Qaeda, preventing the Taliban from taking over the country, and stopping mass terror attacks against Americans before they emerge.”
    Hamdullah Mohib, Afghanistan’s ambassador to Washington, said Trump’s message was “exactly what we wanted” because it “takes into account our country’s needs and constraints. We did not want it to be about troop numbers or time lines, but to conditions on the ground,” he said while visiting Kabul. “We welcome this strategy that integrates American military power into achieving our shared goals.”

    Davood Moradian, executive director of the Afghan Institute for Strategic Studies, said the “tone and narrative” of Trump’s speech was “reassuring and uplifting for many of us, because it projects the confidence and resolve which are necessary for our besieged population and exhausted security forces.”
    He said Trump was “right in being clear and resolute about Pakistan,” but he also cautioned that having a “legitimate, functioning” government in Kabul, now facing serious internal divisions and external challenges, will be the “key to implementing” a successful new Washington policy.
    After taking office, Trump announced that he would delegate authority to the Pentagon to set troop levels. That raised fears among some lawmakers and foreign policy analysts that even a modest initial increase could escalate rapidly and plunge the United States more deeply back into a conflict that has resulted in the deaths of 2,403 Americans.
    “After the extraordinary sacrifice of blood and treasure, the American people are weary of war without victory,” Trump said. “Nowhere is this more evident than with the war in Afghanistan.”
    Despite the fact that Trump was presented to the American public as "anti-globalist" he escalates the wars the previous presidents started(perhaps this is the reason why Steve Bannon was fired). Most analysts agree that a small increase of troops is nothing more than a political maneuver to persuade public that "we will be more tough" against terrorism. Fact is that under Obama NATO had 150.000 troops in Afghanistan and failed. I dont see how 10.000-15.000 troops will make a difference

  2. #2
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    you should make the topic a bit more clear imo. is this about trump and his promises on foreign policy, on how to deal with afghanistan in general, about trump and white house infighting as pertains to foreign policy?

    there is probably not that much to discuss in regards to trump: he serves the interests of his backers. lobbyism hasnt changed much, the current government is just a more willing accomplice. he lied to his electorate to get both the interventionist and isolationist nationalists on board (any time anyone speaks about cracking down on terrorism, going abroad is always in the deal) and they didnt catch the contradiction, many still dont.

    isolationist get the shaft oc, since no major global power can simply do a 180, but so does the white male middle and working class, his biggest base, in general, so no surprise. this is very much in keeping with his course.

  3. #3
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    It would be worse if they left, though i can sympathize with the non-intervention view. The thing to consider is, Taliban is not a political force but a insurrection against western civilization and they don't make compromises. They would train a new generation of terrorists and send them on their mission to hit the USA and its allies, and Europe is a easy target right now while Afghans are not allowed to be deported.

  4. #4
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    i hardly know were to start, your terminology is so all over the place.

    the taliban are a political force, they even used to run the country. they are not an insurrection against western civilization (can you people even open your mouth without any random formulaic catchphrase coming out?), since they were never part of it, in any literal or other sense. they are already training new terrorists, with a handy enemy they can point to and call a foreign occupation force.

    so try again, and maybe bring something sunstantiated. you dont even care to elaborate why you "sympathize", if your sympathy is even pertinent here, and you have no point about occupation expect: them being there stops terrorists, which in the end, it doesnt. they can even recruit there and then send them to train elsewhere, thats not a new concept.

  5. #5
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    you should make the topic a bit more clear imo. is this about trump and his promises on foreign policy, on how to deal with afghanistan in general, about trump and white house infighting as pertains to foreign policy?

    there is probably not that much to discuss in regards to trump: he serves the interests of his backers. lobbyism hasnt changed much, the current government is just a more willing accomplice. he lied to his electorate to get both the interventionist and isolationist nationalists on board (any time anyone speaks about cracking down on terrorism, going abroad is always in the deal) and they didnt catch the contradiction, many still dont.

    isolationist get the shaft oc, since no major global power can simply do a 180, but so does the white male middle and working class, his biggest base, in general, so no surprise. this is very much in keeping with his course.
    Its about both. To be honest its Afghanistan's war is not Trumps fault and i can understand why some might vote in support of permanent occupation. If Taliban win in Afghanistan you will have a spike in Taliban-type movements across the globe just like what happened after mujahedin defeated USSR. On the other hand obviously colonial policies do not work in the 21st century. Its not an easy decision

  6. #6
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    they are past the point where there can be "good" decisions.

    they had 16 years to rebuild the country, but either incompetence or unwillingness made that impossible. they have spent whatever credit they had with the population. if they stay, they prolong the fighting, lose money and manpower, and make a good target for extremist propaganda. if they leave, resistance to the taliban may collapse, or more likely, there will be a prolonged civil war. he taliban dont have to run the country, a political vacuum is all they need. this may happen anyway, but sheer lack of enforcement could make it happen sooner.

    as in so many cases, mishandled intervention made it worse, and now the consequences cant be unmade.

  7. #7
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    The mishandled intervention was on the soviet behalf in the 80s, causing local unrest and muslims answering the call for jihad. Americans went in when they were attacked by hijacked planes and felt directly threatened, not seen since WW2.

    Remember what happend when Obama pulled out of Iraq? Regardless if the Iraq War was a bad thing, as a consequence the local Al-Qaeda group exploited the power vacuum to turn into ISIS, we almost got an islamic totalitarian state hellbent on domination and conquest, using american equipment. Let that sink in.

    Also i stand by my insurrection against western civilization comment, they fought against everything they see as western influence and view us as the enemy.
    Last edited by Mayer; August 22, 2017 at 12:06 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Well this poll is obviously not biased or looking to promote an agenda

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ggsimmonds View Post
    Well this poll is obviously not biased or looking to promote an agenda
    How? You can choose the first option if you like that says "we keep defeating terrorists 17 years now" if you like

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    There's no real choice here the way I see it. We saw what happened in Iraq when the US left. IS is already present in Afghanistan, it's not just the Taliban.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    There's no real choice here the way I see it. We saw what happened in Iraq when the US left. IS is already present in Afghanistan, it's not just the Taliban.
    Yes no doubt there are some forces that dont have a problem with this situation( permanent occupation of muslim lands and permanent terrorism). The question is if that boosts American interests. Two of the most important countries in Asia(Pakistan and Turkey) that were never anti-American have now quite the animosity towards the US. This is because of American policies.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Something I gotta agree with on Trump. Maintaining a significant presence and establishing rule of law and a good country to live in, is key to combating terror.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    American presidents never learn, the U.S. breaks everything it touches. This occupation is solving nothing and bringing in more troops sure as hell won't help.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    Yes no doubt there are some forces that dont have a problem with this situation( permanent occupation of muslim lands and permanent terrorism). The question is if that boosts American interests. Two of the most important countries in Asia(Pakistan and Turkey) that were never anti-American have now quite the animosity towards the US. This is because of American policies.
    Turkey is still a member of NATO, and their animosity towards the west as a whole are more to do with Erdogan. See for example his treatment of Germany.
    Pakistan is more to do with it siding with China in return for their support against India, which in turn drew closer to the US. I'd take India over Pakistan any day.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    India has significant ties in Afghanistan. I don't care if we piss off Pakistan. The worst American Period Ally Period Ever Period.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    India has significant ties in Afghanistan. I don't care if we piss off Pakistan. The worst American Period Ally Period Ever Period.
    No other ally in the world world sacrifise 100.000 lives just like Pakistan has done in order to please USA. But Americans need a scapegoat to blame for their failures. If Pakistan bordered Iraq they would have blamed them too for the Iraqi failure. Fact is that you tried to promote colonial policies and you failed because you are in the 21st century not in the 19th.

  17. #17
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    No other ally in the world world sacrifise 100.000 lives just like Pakistan has done in order to please USA. But Americans need a scapegoat to blame for their failures. If Pakistan bordered Iraq they would have blamed them too for the Iraqi failure. Fact is that you tried to promote colonial policies and you failed because you are in the 21st century not in the 19th.
    Excuse my ignorance, but when did Pakistan sacrifice 100,000 lives to please the USA?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Excuse my ignorance, but when did Pakistan sacrifice 100,000 lives to please the USA?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in...-West_Pakistan

  19. #19
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    So by fighting terrorists inside their own country, including IS and Al-Qaeda, and the death of roughly 7,000 military personnel and losing 21,489 civilians the Pakistanis sacrificed 100,000 lives just to please the US. Seems about right, carry on.

  20. #20
    Anna_Gein's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Trump to send more troops in Afghanistan

    Around 4 000 additional US troop will not change Afghanistan structural problems : "Security forces" high on opium, "security forces" kidnapping young boys to enslave them and make them sexual slaves, corruption, warlords & militias, the political crisis, mediocre ANA leadership in every area (command & control, logistic service, training).

    Additionally US military leaders are incompetent as hell. Trump should have follow his gut and sack the US top officer in Afghanistan. Seriously dropping a Massive Ordonnance Air Blast to destroy tunnels ? What idiot thought it would be effective ?

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/14/as...omb/index.html
    "This was the right weapon against the right target," Gen. John Nicholson, commander for US forces in Afghanistan, told a press conference.
    Except frightening locals and damaging their homes up to 2 miles away it did not achieve anything.


    The US skills in diplomacy is pathetic theses day. Wrong tactic ever to convince Pakistan to help. I guess it will help american and afghan leaders to escape their responsibilities by blaming Pakistan. It is so easy.
    Last edited by Anna_Gein; August 22, 2017 at 03:42 PM.

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