CALexit efforts rekindled.

[alhoon]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/c...151500174.html

The gist: The Political Group "Yes California" that wants to secede from the USA is picking up again, after its former leader left for Russia creating an "embassy" there. The group's first goal is file a ballot for the 2018 elections allowing Californians to voice their support for secession. The previous leader will remain on the board but the "embassy" in Moscow has been shut down by the new leadership.

My opinion is that when you disagree with the direction your country is heading, you don't abandon your country but try to engage the other side(s) in dialogue to correct the course. You fight for your country when you think it is in trouble, you don't abandon it.
CALexit would be an act of treason in my opinion and the ties of their former leadership with Russia make me suspicious of their motives as well as their agenda. Russia is under more authoritarian leadership and is less tolerant than Trump's America. If the previous leader of the CALexit efforts was so concerned about Trump and conservatives... relocating to Russia of all places seems a strange choice.

What do you think? Is it moral for progressives to request secession from the USA based on the political climate?
What do you think about the CALexit's ties with Russia and the leader relocating to (arguably less tolerant and progressive) Russia?

[TheDarkKnight]

The hilarious thing about this is that this is coming from the same people that mock State of Jefferson people as well as those that want the South to secede again.

I live in California. It's not the best state ever but it is mine. I don't want to live in a new country.

[Prodromos]

Russia generally have their hands on almost every secessionist movement in America, but ultimately they are powerless without popular support. There is no support for CALexit among either the political elite or the plebs. Even if support rises due to Trump, secession would take a long time, and by then Trump won't be president anymore and any support for exit will disappear.

[alhoon]

The hilarious thing about this is that this is coming from the same people that mock State of Jefferson people as well as those that want the South to secede again.

I live in California. It's not the best state ever but it is mine. I don't want to live in a new country.

Yeah, here what it seems like:
"We're disgusted living in a country that still honors traitors and secessionists! So we want to secede from those traitors."
+
"I can't live in such a conservative, authoritarian hellhole anymore. So I will leave for Russia" from their leader.

Russia generally have their hands on almost every secessionist movement in America, but ultimately they are powerless without popular support. There is no support for CALexit among either the political elite or the plebs. Even if support rises due to Trump, secession would take a long time, and by then Trump won't be president anymore and any support for exit will disappear.

If 11 states didn't manage to secede in 1860s, there's no way California can secede today. But that's not what Russia seeks. Voices for CALexit throw instability in USA and make them to look inward. With eyes on "bad secessionist loons in California!" the USA public will probably be less interested in what happens elsewhere. And that can be exploited.

A clean CALexit would not benefit Russia. Growing Instability and tensions in USA would.

[Copperknickers II]

I wish good luck to the Californians if they do want to go it alone. It's not a bad idea in many ways, although it would probably end up becoming part of Latin America in linguistic terms due to the demographic projections. I think as soon as 2025 Latinos will make up a majority of Californians.

[NorseThing]

I wish good luck to the Californians if they do want to go it alone. It's not a bad idea in many ways, although it would probably end up becoming part of Latin America in linguistic terms due to the demographic projections. I think as soon as 2025 Latinos will make up a majority of Californians.

Spain was already the first to try and change the 'demographic projections' of the natives within California. Today is not really the same but,.... California is both dependent and a part of the American culture both economically and philosophically. California is also dependent and a part of the Mexican culture. California is also dependent and a part of the Asian culture. You get the idea. Whether the population is majority Latino (whatever that means) or not --- we will still find the successful people will communicate successfully with their neighbors, customers, and clients. The successful people will both drive and absorb the culture of the USA. I worry less about where we were as well as where we are headed. I am concerned about helping those who want to be successful to play within the rules and get help if they want and need aid to succeed in their daily lives. I wish Californians well no matter what path they choose to follow as well as you do.

Do not worry about trends based on if nothing changes. Things always change.

CALexit is simply a popular media idea to rile up the population and get ratings and profits.

[Heathen Hammer]

As much as I would love to see US military beat the crap out of them, I hope they succeed, although I think North California would become the local Ulster. In any case, unlike, say, Cascadia, it does not have any economic potential and would be second Venezuela.

[Derpy Hooves]

If they did secede, Sherman would be resurrected and would have a march to the Pacific

[Admiral Piett]

The breakup of the US will occur at some point, I just don't think it will be in this decade and prolly not the next unless a major calamity occurs. But the seeds are steadily being sowed. It starts with political disagreement and then the culture clash kicks into gear. The so called 'culture war' that has been ongoing for nearly two decades now has left a lot of embittered people that increasingly would like to move forward without some particular states being present. Heck, nearly the whole country wants us Texans out and California isn't far behind on that. The Pacific Northwest wants to form into union with British Columbia into Cascadia. The rest of the mountain and plains states also have more in common with the south than the Great Lakes or New England. But I don't think a serious break-up will occur until one particular side decides they are sick of the malfunctioning gridlock and inability to coherently or effectively administer the nation. They've already started to abandon century long rules and regulations regarding votes. The executive branch will inevitably feel more emboldened to become more influential at the expense of the weakening and impotent Congress. Also, the sheer lack of representation that people feel they are being more and more ignored by their elected statesmen. Unless the country makes some changes the path we are on is definitely not taking us towards unity and cohesion.

[conon394]

I not seeing it - there is too much extra state infrastructure that most people don't think about and too much money on the table that would vanish. Mostly this is just the extreme fits of wealthy and populous states that are now a bit tired of net outflows to whinny mostly empty red states and are using the same play book (recall Texas a few years ago). Or alternatively it is karma for California which it was three rational sized states there would likely be a blue majority in the senate and they would not be so much.

[Heathen Hammer]

US economy would actually improve if California was to secede, politically US would also win, given how voting capability of Californians is that of an average MTV viewer.
On the other hand, US would need a bigger wall then the one with Mexico to prevent the influx of Californians fleeing the progressive liberal paradise after the government runs out of welfare and its over-populated urban centers will descent into Mad Max kinda of state. Then again, those that make it would probably never vote Democrat ever again.

[The spartan]

US economy would actually improve if California was to secede, politically US would also win, given how voting capability of Californians is that of an average MTV viewer.
On the other hand, US would need a bigger wall then the one with Mexico to prevent the influx of Californians fleeing the progressive liberal paradise after the government runs out of welfare and its over-populated urban centers will descent into Mad Max kinda of state. Then again, those that make it would probably never vote Democrat ever again.

But who would be covering all those sweet, sweet Cali dollars they were sending to the federal government?

Slightly off topic question: have you ever read the Turner Diaries?

[Heathen Hammer]

But who would be covering all those sweet, sweet Cali dollars they were sending to the federal government?

Most of the business would relocate to US anyways.

[The spartan]

Most of the business would relocate to US anyways.

Really? Car manufacturers already bend over backwards to make sure their cars follow California regulation so they can be sold there. Silicon Valley isn't exactly set up to just be moved cross country. What evidence do you have that they would just drop everything any leave? Your own analysis?

[conon394]

US economy would actually improve if California was to secede, politically US would also win, given how voting capability of Californians is that of an average MTV viewer.

How exactly use numbers even small ones or very very great ones - the only kind trump can understand, better break out the crayons and picture books

[Påsan]

Is there even a way to leave the union with a referendum in the extreme positive? Also no predident or administration would ever let them leave anyway. Its a moot point, a funny thought experiment but a moot point.

[TheDarkKnight]

Is there even a way to leave the union with a referendum in the extreme positive? Also no predident or administration would ever let them leave anyway. Its a moot point, a funny thought experiment but a moot point.

This.

No president would want to go down in US history as the one that allowed the most populous state as well as one of the most valuable to split.

[IronBrig4]

Yeah, California by itself is in the G8. Leaving would be disastrous for the rest of the country.

[Heathen Hammer]

Really? Car manufacturers already bend over backwards to make sure their cars follow California regulation so they can be sold there. Silicon Valley isn't exactly set up to just be moved cross country. What evidence do you have that they would just drop everything any leave? Your own analysis?

Because being separated from your consumers with a an actual border isn't good for business. So Commiefornia would have to say goodbye to car manufacturers, Silicon Valley or pretty much any company that generates income, as they would have more to lose if they stay.

[alhoon]

US economy would actually improve if California was to secede, politically US would also win, given how voting capability of Californians is that of an average MTV viewer.
On the other hand, US would need a bigger wall then the one with Mexico to prevent the influx of Californians fleeing the progressive liberal paradise after the government runs out of welfare and its over-populated urban centers will descent into Mad Max kinda of state. Then again, those that make it would probably never vote Democrat ever again.

Ahh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California
California gives much more to USA that it takes out. If California secedes, USA would lose money. Let alone a ton of business deals.

Because being separated from your consumers with a an actual border isn't good for business. So Commiefornia would have to say goodbye to car manufacturers, Silicon Valley or pretty much any company that generates income, as they would have more to lose if they stay.

Have you noticed how much of USA's stuff is made in really-communist China?
Also Silicon valley is very progressive.
In the impossibly ridiculous case that "we hate conservatives" group became large enough to win, and then USA decided to commit suicide and send away the richest and biggest state ... they wouldn't move.