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Thread: Native Americans

  1. #1

    Default Native Americans

    Hello! I must say I believe this is the best mod for Empire not only for the great AI and numerous features, but the additional historical factions and attention to minor factions creates more gameplay depth in each theater, especially in India where the Marathas would predictably unleash a deluge upon the Mughals. I was wondering whether you plan to expand this attention to Native American factions? Already factions such as the Cree and Apache have been added along with units such as the Yamasee. Unfortunately, it seems Native Americans get the short end of the stick in Empire Total War since CA did not make it possible to represent them with any accuracy. I have some suggestions that perhaps others can critique and add to. For factions, it is difficult because there were so many nations that existed. I would suggest the most powerful ones that had great historical impact..

    First I would suggest that Huron-Wyandot faction be replaced by a new faction: Three Fires Confederacy. The Huron suffered greatly from the Iroquois in the Beaver Wars and by this time were not a great power. Three Fires Confederacy could be located in the territory the Huron have right now.

    Then, I would combine Plains and Sioux factions into one Sioux faction with those two regions.

    One faction I am uncertain about is the Inuit. Historically, this region was inhabited by the Innu (Montagnais) people, though they were generally not a warlike outside of the times their land was raided during the Beaver Wars, from what I understand. Perhaps this faction should be removed altogether?

    If some faction slots are freed up, there are some relevant nations that could be added: notably the Illinois Confederation in Upper Louisiana, and the Muscogee (Creek Confederacy) in Cherokee Territory and Georgia, and emergent in Florida. Or perhaps, there are some other factions you are set on adding, like Haiti or something.

    As for units, there are few mods that I know of that I know of focusing on Native Americans. A great one is this one: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1-3-Compatible
    Is it possible to incorporate these units into ID? Again thanks for this incredible mod and for the many hours of enjoyment I've had with it.

  2. #2
    Lordsith's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Native Americans

    Good ideas! Right now i'm focused in new technologies, however I will think about these ideas in future

  3. #3

    Default Re: Native Americans

    Wow, more new technologies? One surely cannot say you aren't thorough, Lordsith!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Native Americans

    No sense.
    He beat those who wanted, better free slots to use for more interesting countries: Czech Republic, Lithuania, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, Bulgaria.
    Cool if there were more big cities.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Native Americans

    I would have to disagree. Native americans done accurately would have their own fighting styles unique from European line infantry. You have plains nations that are cavalry based, woodlands nations that are hit and run infantry, etc. I prefer more of this over more emergent European nations, especially ones that didn't exist in this time period. Colombia and Mexico I could advocate for from a gameplay perspective since when Latin America rebels or spain is destroyed, that area is left just a huge void of rebels that is easy pickings for the player.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Native Americans

    YES! Also as a nitpick of mine that's bugged me for quite a while is that the Native American Units are all practically naked which makes no sense historically or geographically when you're playing as tribes from the North and Mid-West where it's freezing. It's also a stupidly huge missed opportunity on CA's part because there are some really awesome colorful clothing and Native American armors that really would have made the NA factions Stick Out! Also tomahawks are cool, but where the F@#k are the badass war-clubs, decorative lances, atlatls, or Macuahuitls?!
    Check out:https://www.pinterest.com/siresasa/n...ly-historical/

    P.S: I absolutely love this mod. Installed it on my mac last week.

  7. #7
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Native Americans

    I agree with this post.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Native Americans

    I'm a bit confused on this - didn't CA already adress this issue by massively overhauling the Native Indian factions with the ETW Warpath Expansion DLC?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Native Americans

    Okay guys, I found a massive problem with the Native factions while playing as the Cree. So, I spent 20 years conquering Canada (most of that time spent barely moving turn by turn.) and so I ended up with a huge monopoly on fur. My income was almost exclusively from trade but when a single French sloop blockaded my port, I everything came to a stand still and I was immediately bankrupt. There was no way to lift the single ship blockade as the NA factions aren't given the option to build any boats, and the French refused to accept peace despite me crushing their armies. I couldn't leave to conquer a new port because since I was bankrupt and It takes ridiculously long to travel on the campaign map, my provinces would instantly revolt the second my army left the town.
    The the rest of the campaign became and unplayable waiting simulator, where I could do absolutely nothing but hit the turn button.

    The NA factions NEED basic naval units to play in Grand Strategy, because of stupid crap like this when a single stupid goddamn French sloop ruins hours of planning and waiting!!!


    Also there needs to be more campaign movement points on the America Map because it literally took 5 entire in-game years to cross one single province!

    Another bug I kept encountering was when ever a town rioted (which was literally every turn) a 1000 population would be killed, and In the NA provinces there's only like 3000 starting population so yeah...you're entire population is massacred in a riot and more importantly you can't make any gold from taxes.


    Off-topic, but another suggestion to flesh out the NA factions more would be adding a few new religions for example:

    -Inuit/Cree/Huron => Totemism
    -Iroquois/Cherokee => Animism
    -Sioux/Plain Nation => Shamanism
    -Pueblo => Peyotism

  10. #10

    Default Re: Native Americans

    I posted this in the suggestions thread, but I'll also put this here since the thread is relevant and so more people can see and give feedback.

    Suggestions for improving the Native American factions:

    •Ability to field basic Navies- personally I think this is most important as I’ve had my campaigns ruined because I could build a navy and had no means to protect my trade routes from being blockaded by a single sloop. Native tribes should be able recruit naval ships mostly to protect trade routes and ports from blockade, but also as a fun option for the players who wish to conquer the world with a Native faction. This could be implemented as a tech. The justification being either capturing a European ship and reverse engineering it or as a Westernization effort with the natives hiring European advisors and shipwrights.
    •New Native Religions- having all the Native factions be animists completely overlooks the complex cultural and religious differences between the tribes and having a few new separate ones can simulate those differences and points of tension. I suggest:
    Cree/Huron/Inuit=>Totemism
    Iroquois/Cherokee=>Animism
    Sioux/Plains=>Shamanism
    Apache=>Peyotism

    •Military Westernization Efforts-likewise with Native armies it would be awesome if there was a westernization option so native tribes could be able to field European styled line infantry units and cavalry. It would make sense with the 7 years war and various other international conflicts compelling European powers to arm and train various tribes to fight in their global alliances against other global alliances.
    •Improved infrastructure options/Increased campaign movement range-Native Factions should have the ability to build roads beyond ‘Basic Roads’ this is because the western US provinces are massive and forested/hilly so it takes ridiculously and unrealistically long to traverse them. Historically wagon trains traveling from the east coast to the west coast of the United States took 4-6 months, meanwhile moving your troops across a single province in-game literally takes YEARS to accomplish. The Lewis and Clark expedition took 2 1/2 years, but that’s because they meticulously mapped, recorded, and studied everything and everyone they encountered before moving on.
    •Increased Starting populations and Growth Rates-The starting populations and growth rate of the Native American provinces needs to be MUCH higher than it is both historically and mechanically wise and there’s a bug whenever there is a settler riot, 1000 population is killed off which almost completely depopulates the province.
    •UI optional replacer- personally I really don’t like the Warpath Ui, I think it’s ugly and would rather use the sleek vanilla Ui instead. I’m sure others agree.
    •Unit Appearance changes- all northern and midwestern Native units should be fully clothed as to fit their frigid environments while the southern and south western Native units remain the same as to fit their warmer environment. Seeing your army fighting in the Canadian winter wearing nothing but a loincloth and moccasins is just...WRONG!
    •Bowmen melee nerfed- the bowmen are ridiculously OP and make fielding other units pointless, bowmen steamroll other melee based units.

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