The Sultanate of Rûm (info and units)

[sananeula]

wow good works thanks to you..

[Lifthrasir]

Thanks but I still have to post the last part

[bigdaddy1204]

I am very happy to see a thread about Anatolia and the Seljuks of Rum. Some great suggestions so far. Will try to respond more soon

In general my main concern is that early Turks are too weak vs Byzantines. Late period, i think the Byzantines are too weak vs Turks. In late period I'd make Nicaea a fortress/citadel so the Byzies can get good units; in early I'd buff the Turks by giving better armies and making Ankara a fortress. These factions need to be able to recruit strong armies or they're essentially doomed.

[Mamlaz]

In general my main concern is that early Turks are too weak vs Byzantines. Late period, i think the Byzantines are too weak vs Turks.

I mean, shouldn't that be the case?

This mod starts in 12th century, when Roman Empire was quite mighty and the Seljuks quite passed their prime.

[Dekhatres]

I mean, shouldn't that be the case?

This mod starts in 12th century, when Roman Empire was quite mighty and the Seljuks quite passed their prime.

indeed the romans got quite powerfull under the komnenos but still not powerfull enouth to recover anatolia, even though seljuks were on decline they were still a force to be reckoned with

a solution could be to improve seljuks autoresolve odds

[Lifthrasir]

Seljuks were on decline but not in Anatolia. They were about to take over the Danismends.
From the link I've posted in the 1st post:

Qelej Arslān I had appointed his son Šāhānšāh (r. 1109-16) governor of Mosul. Šāhānšāh managed to escape when the city was retaken by the Great Saljuqs, and by 1109 he established himself at Konya where he imprisoned his brother Masʿud (r. 1116-56), though according to Syriac sources Moḥammad Ṭapar himself had sent Šāhānšāh who was proclaimed sultan in Malatya (Turan, 1971, p. 149). However, the Saljuqs of Rum were overshadowed by the Daneshmandids who became the leading Turkish power in Anatolia in the first half of the 12th century. Internal disputes further weakened the Saljuqs of Rum, and it was only with Daneshmandid aid that Šāhānšāh’s brother Masʿud was to seize power from him in 1116. Masʿud’s long reign of 39 years eventually witnessed the beginnings of a revival in the fortunes of the Saljuqs of Rum. Initially, he was vassal to Amir Ḡāzi b. Dānešmand (r. 1104-34), and married his daughter, but after the death of Moḥammad b. Amir Gāzi (r. 1134-42) Masʿud was able to exploit the Daneshmandid succession disputes to assert his own position. Several Daneshmandid princes were obliged to form alliances with Masʿud: ʿAyn-al-Dawla of Malatya became his vassal, while Masʿud married his daughters to Yaḡıbasān, the ruler of Amasya and Sivas, and to Ḏu’l-Nun of Kayseri. The failure of a Byzantine army under Emperor Manuel Comnenus (r. 1143-80) to capture Konya in 1146, and a crushing defeat inflicted on the Second Crusade at Dorylaeum in 1147 further strengthened Masʿud’s position. He resumed his father’s policy of expansion in the south east with the capture of Marʿaš in 1149, followed by ʿAyntāb and other towns under Crusader control the following year, although his final campaign, against Armenian Cilicia in 1154, did not succeed in annexing territory.

[bigdaddy1204]

I mean, shouldn't that be the case?

This mod starts in 12th century, when Roman Empire was quite mighty and the Seljuks quite passed their prime.

My friend, may I share with you, the Battle of Myriokephalon

My point is the Turks of Rum were actually very successful at defending their lands against Romans at this period.

[Mamlaz]

Well the Romans did defeat them at the battle of Hyelion less than a year later, so I guess they should be balanced as equals.

[Lifthrasir]

Post#19 updated and post#20 created. They are a bit long but I needed to explain my reasonning

On top of that, a bit of history doesn't hurt

[Jurand of Cracow]

a solution could be to improve seljuks autoresolve odds

Is it possible to improve autoresolve chances of a particular faction?
(btw after having played Broken Crescent I conclude that autoresolve is very easy in BC, while not so in the SSHIP. I prefer the SSHIP mode much more: you should play the even battles but you should be spared from playing the battles the odds are heavily on your side)

[Lifthrasir]

I remember to have read something about how the game is calculating the autoresolved battles somewhere
As far as I can remember, that depends on the units but not on the factions. If I'm right, that mean some specific units would need to be created for Rum only with the relevant parameters to favorise them in autoresolve. I'm not convinced by that.

[MWY]

Its possible to improve autoresolve for particular units.

In the EDU, a unit has two hitpoint values. The later one is not used in the battle itself, but influences autoresolve results. By giving units more secondary hitpoints, they do better.

[Dekhatres]

Its possible to improve autoresolve for particular units.

In the EDU, a unit has two hitpoint values. The later one is not used in the battle itself, but influences autoresolve results. By giving units more secondary hitpoints, they do better.

yes that's exactly what i had in mind as i remember someone once saying they improved the autoresolve odds of horse archers but cant remember where

[Lifthrasir]

The problem is that not only Rum will get the advantage but also any faction using horse archers, unless a specific horse archers unit is created only for Rum.

[Dekhatres]

The problem is that not only Rum will get the advantage but also any faction using horse archers, unless a specific horse archers unit is created only for Rum.

not necesarily, making 1 unit of horse archers count as much as let's say 1 unit of scoutatoi would only balance things out not give an advantage

[Lifthrasir]

That's not my point. My point is that if the feature is implemented, not only the Rum faction will be affected but also all factions using that unit, in our example, the horse archers (also used by other Muslim factions).

So let's assume that we do as you propose. Then it might balance the autoresolved battles between Rum and ERE but it might also unbalance the one between Muslim factions and CS for example.

[Dekhatres]

That's not my point. My point is that if the feature is implemented, not only the Rum faction will be affected but also all factions using that unit, in our example, the horse archers (also used by other Muslim factions).

So let's assume that we do as you propose. Then it might balance the autoresolved battles between Rum and ERE but it might also unbalance the one between Muslim factions and CS for example.

you assume horse archers are gona get super stats that will make them completely overpowered which is not the case, what i proposed is simply to make them count as much as a heavy spear unit

[Lifthrasir]

No, I don't consider them to become a super unit. You don't seem to realize the CS is already disadvantaged vs Muslim factions. With that kind of change, you're giving another bonus to the Muslim factions using horse archers and not only to Rum.
To keep it simple, you can't just consider Rum vs ERE but the whole gameplay and how any change affect it. Considering such kind of change faction by faction is a mistake from my opinion.

[Dekhatres]

No, I don't consider them to become a super unit. You don't seem to realize the CS is already disadvantaged vs Muslim factions. With that kind of change, you're giving another bonus to the Muslim factions using horse archers and not only to Rum.
To keep it simple, you can't just consider Rum vs ERE but the whole gameplay and how any change affect it. Considering such kind of change faction by faction is a mistake from my opinion.

i do consider only rum vs ere because CS is not as disadvantaged, rum has less settlements, less units and even those are light, no unique powerfull units and CS also doesnt have to fight a behemoth like ERE

in alternative only aor turkish horse archers could be boosted for autoresolve battles

[Lifthrasir]

CS have to face several enemies with lighter units (true) but also more numerous.
Rum can re-emerge while CS can not.
I have never seen CS survive for long in all my games when controlled by the AI while Rum sometimes does quite well straight from the beginning or after to have re-emerged.
So I disagree with you about Rum being disadvantaged compare to CS.

As said numerous times now, I'm still convinced that the EDU, units stats and animations have to be re-worked first before to modify the game mechanics such as this one.