Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

  1. #1

    Default [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    DeI 1.2 CAI & Diplomacy Guide

    This guide is here to help those new to DeI 1.2 with the various Campaign AI (CAI) and diplomacy changes. A lot has changed in 1.2 on these fronts and it can be frustrating when you don't understand the system and why certain decisions and changes were made. This guide will be an attempt to explain the system and give some tips on how to navigate diplomacy in 1.2.


    How does Rome 2 CAI and diplomacy work?

    In order to understand why we have our system the way it is, we need to start at the foundation of the systems in the game. At its core, Rome 2's CAI and diplomacy are random. Period. Full stop. This has huge ramifications for campaigns because in any given campaign you could see all types of behavior and choices made by the AI. Sometimes they are bad choices, sometimes they come from nowhere and (hopefully) sometimes they are smart. The game itself has so many possible situations with so many factions, bonuses, modifiers, variables, etc. that its impossible to determine in any given campaign what exactly will happen on a turn.

    Because of this random nature, any given turn can have different results even if replayed. If you end a turn you may see Faction X declare war on Faction Y or Faction Z break its treaties with you. You could even see another faction offer some random agreement that turn. If you go back and load the save and end turn again, you could easily see completely different things happen. Some of the same may happen, none of it may happen, or totally different results may occur. These differences are the essence of the random nature of Rome 2.

    This randomness or "dice roll diplomacy" is both a good and bad thing. Its good because it means that there are unexpected things that happen in campaigns and campaigns can be different on replaying them. Its bad because across the many thousands of DeI campaigns, there will be times when the AI does stuff that doesn't make sense or even seems poorly balanced or designed. In order attempt to add some level of smart AI to the decisions, we have variables we can change within the system. These variables help weigh the dice roll and determine AI behavior in a given circumstance. Once again, its just a weighted dice roll not a pre-determined action.


    Why the 1.2 changes?
    These weighted dice rolls as described above are effectively what we can change within the system. So, you may notice that in 1.2 most factions are now Aggressive in diplomacy and that overall the CAI is more aggressive. One of our chief complaints in 1.1 was that the CAI was rather passive and allowed the player to dictate the pace of play and in game actions, especially in the mid-late game. So, one of our goals in 1.2 was to improve the CAI's activity and make it more dynamic and aggressive. It will now initiate actions, backstab, and generally be more of a nuisance for the player. In our testing, we found that the Aggressive setting really improves CAI behavior overall, but especially improves it in the mid/late game and during war time. The AI will initiate unexpected attacks in both time and place and generally is much better about what its doing while at war. Basically, those dice rolls that happen hundreds of thousands of times across the many, many DeI campaigns are weighted more toward the aggressive than the passive side. This has produced an AI that will choose to make that attack or backstab more often on the whole rather than sit back and watch.

    However, the change to Aggressive settings has some drawbacks. The early game is more difficult, especially for smaller factions. The AI will gang up on you, watch for weaknesses or oversights and exploit them, or generally wait for an unexpected moment to declare war. Things can snowball a bit if you are seen as a good target. On one hand thats a good and realistic thing and helps the AI behavior on the whole, but on the other hand it can be frustrating as the player. We chose to have a more aggressive AI because the benefits outweigh the negatives. Our choice was between an AI that can sometimes be randomly too aggressive in a given campaign vs. an AI that is almost always too passive. If we want the AI to be able to backstab and be dynamically active in a campaign, we have to accept that it will sometimes do these things at moments that are annoying or strange.


    General Tips
    - Until you get used to the new system, I highly recommend playing the campaign on Normal. For some larger faction starts you may want to try Hard, but overall Normal is what the aggression is balanced around. If you play on Hard, you can expect a lot more war declarations, backstabbing and general AI jerkiness. Also the AI gets a lot more bonuses on higher difficulties.
    - There are two submods that can help out immensely depending on your preferences and what factions you play. The Hardcore and Softcore submods have CAI only versions that will turn up or down the aggression, depending on your choice. Some players like to use the Softcore submod for small or difficult faction starts and then turn it off as they go. Others may use the Hardcore submod later in a campaign as the late game may become easier for some factions. Its even an option to start on Hard difficulty but use the submods as you go since you can't change campaign difficulty but you can turn on/off the submods.

    Diplomacy Tips
    - Factions have a large starting treasury for a reason in 1.2. Yes, we got rid of a lot of the hidden income, but its also there to help with early diplomacy. Use some of that starting treasury for gifts to secure some basic agreements from other factions. Then, use money to improve those agreements. Start with a Non aggression or trade agreement and work your way up to higher agreement levels. Even simply using the money as a gift for multiple turns will help build toward a relationship.
    - Going along with that idea of money in diplomacy, be active in diplomacy from the first turn! In previous versions of the mod and in vanilla, you can almost ignore diplomacy until you need to exploit it. But, in 1.2 you have to actively engage in diplomacy from the start. You may even find that offering a faction a certain deal will have them return with another deal you didn't expect. If you ignore diplomacy you will find yourself behind other factions that have engaged in it early on.
    - Choose your allies and your enemies carefully. Do not try to ally with every single faction you meet, be careful about what agreements you make and with whom. Allying and trading with everyone may seem like a good idea, but it can lead to instability in your agreements as those factions will not all like one another.
    - Check out how factions feel about one another and use that to your advantage. Join the wars of those you want to ally with for a large bonus to them or simply use agent actions or trespassing if war isn't an option. Be careful about making allies with the enemy of your friend or making enemies with the allies of your friend.
    - Do not declare war or antagonize larger factions (ie Seleucids!) in the early game. Pay them off to improve relations. If you get on the bad side of a big bad, expect other factions to distance themselves from you.
    - If you have a diplomatic negative as a faction trait, its going to matter, especially in the early game. Be careful about those factions that may have a negative view of you and try to stay neutral or above with them. Maybe even cultivate relationships by joining wars, using money, etc.
    - Expect the AI to betray you. Alliances are just an agreement not to go to war at that moment in Total War . If the AI sees a weakness or just has a bad hair day, they may break up your love affair and come marching across the border. Try to keep some defensive forces at key spots to show the flag.
    Last edited by Dresden; July 18, 2017 at 01:44 PM.

    ----> Website -- Patreon -- Steam -- Forums -- Youtube -- Facebook <----

  2. #2

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    An initial write up with some ideas for tips, please leave any more ideas for the guide here and I will add them.

    ----> Website -- Patreon -- Steam -- Forums -- Youtube -- Facebook <----

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Being active in diplomacy doesn't strictly mean "seek trade". Giving gifts for free for factions you're planning on staying on their good side is a must if you can't get an agreement from them right away.

    In my recent Macedonia campaign I kept gifting Rome and indirectly helping them against Epiros and Ilyria for at least 20 turns until I managed a non aggression, and even then it took me until I acquired several resources to get a trade agreement. Now we're besties^^

    Btw some clever methods of improving relationships without going to war include: agent actions against people who your intended friends hate (see the relations on the diplomacy screen when selecting that faction), and trespassing on their territory (the trespassing one is especially good for an immediate boost to relations)

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Thanks, I will add that to the guide.

    ----> Website -- Patreon -- Steam -- Forums -- Youtube -- Facebook <----

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Try and keep the 'Steadfast' designation. It's basically a buff to your diplomacy.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Can you go into detail on how much gold you need to gift someone for them to get the +opinion bonus? I've noticed sometimes I can give 1000 gold and they will get +19 but if I do 900 they just shrug it off as nothing. I know it increases as the game goes on probably but maybe theres more to it? Can you elaborate?

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    I believe there are 3 levels of gifts - small, medium and large. They each give more bonuses. As to the exact amounts, I believe that varies.

    ----> Website -- Patreon -- Steam -- Forums -- Youtube -- Facebook <----

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Do these changes also apply with the mini campaigns?

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Yes. However many campaigns will push you towards a certain scenario (like germans hating the Romans in CiG) and so it will be next to impossible to do any diplomacy with such factions.

    As for gifting money,
    I think it also depends on how rich the faction you're gifting is. Giving 2000 gold to a 1 region barbarian faction will give a far more positive response than gifting the same 2000 to a 3 province Roman Republic.
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; October 05, 2018 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Merged posts.

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Is there a reason the AI doesn't seem to raid much anymore? It'd be nice if barbarian tribes, especially the nomads, would move into ones territory and raid without declaring war, forcing you to be the one to take the initiative and chase them off.

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    To be honest I've seen my barbarian allies raiding my own territories :/ Raiding seems to be ok as it is. you may not notice it all the time, but it's very well present, especially in areas without good defences, and the faction next door don't really like you.

    btw I don't see how is this related to the topic of this thread

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Well it is a question about the campaign AI, and how aggressive they are. I haven't seen much raiding from them personally, but I will take your word for it.

  13. #13
    amagana91's Avatar Foederatus
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Anyway to bring back the diplomatic option of demanding a certain amount of tribute from a faction for a certain amount of turns. I don't know why CA got rid of that option. Thanks for reading! DEI ROCKS!

  14. #14
    ScipioTheGreat's Avatar Miles
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Arizona - US
    Posts
    349

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by amagana91 View Post
    Anyway to bring back the diplomatic option of demanding a certain amount of tribute from a faction for a certain amount of turns. I don't know why CA got rid of that option. Thanks for reading! DEI ROCKS!
    Well the closest mechanic I’m aware of is Client states, where they pay you a tribute indefinitely unless the arrangement ends

  15. #15
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
    Artifex Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    11,588

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by amagana91 View Post
    Anyway to bring back the diplomatic option of demanding a certain amount of tribute from a faction for a certain amount of turns. I don't know why CA got rid of that option. Thanks for reading! DEI ROCKS!
    Not possible AFAIK.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScipioTheGreat View Post
    Well the closest mechanic I’m aware of is Client states, where they pay you a tribute indefinitely unless the arrangement ends
    Yep. It works quite similarly.

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Is it possible to become a friend of Rome if you play Scordisci? I started campaign several times, I take care of my diplomacy and was with Rome on friendly level 30, but 2 turns after Rome declare war for no aparent reason. Like it is embeded in diplomacy that there is no chance of peace. Because if this is so, than these diplomacy guide is only a general advice, but the real thing should players discover themselfs for each faction after Zillion hours of playing DeI.

  17. #17

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    30 seems low to me. A faction won't really be "friendly" until you are consistently above 100 in my experience. Most of my allies when I play are above 125. The best way to accomplish that is to be friends with their friends, enemies with their enemies, and have a long period of time where you are slowly increasing the level of your diplomatic relations. Although each play-through will be different, it tends to be the following pattern: Gifts -> trade agreement -> non-aggression pact -> military access -> defensive alliance -> full alliance. Without rehashing the diplomacy guide, pay attention to the micro-acts of diplomacy that impact your score such as releasing prisoners, raiding, and trespassing. Gifting at the start is part of the strategy - and you usually have to gift a large amount of money to get started. Using your politicians for diplomatic missions can help too.

    But there are other factors too. For example, if you share a border, are of a different culture, and you don't have a large army, the other factions will see you as an easy target and be more likely to declare war. Other factions may pile on too if they see an easy target or have good diplomatic relations with your enemy. You can predict this by clicking on other factions in the diplomacy tab. You'll see the map change colors to reflect the other faction's relationship with its neighbors. This can be helpful to you as you plan out your diplomatic strategies.

    Diplomacy is a big part of the game, and you should be focused on it from the very start. Identify who you want to be your allies during the first turn, and start working toward developing those relationships.

  18. #18

    Default Re: [Guide & Tips] 1.2 CAI and Diplomacy Guide

    Is sending the diplomat a reasonable action to ease the diplomatic relations with a neighbouring faction? I send once a politician and he was good, the relations with neighbouring faction increase. Next time he betryed me and relations bacamo worse. Third time I send him and he was successful, I got a region in my posesion. I find this action very RNG.

    Thanks Callicles for tips.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •