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Thread: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

  1. #1

    Default Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    While I can only speak for me, my two brothers, and father, I assume they're are others like us. I first played medieval total war and viking invasion and fell in love with total war. This was the greatest game I had ever played. I was learning history while I played an amazing strategic game. I than told my family about it and we all got Rome with excitement. It was a good game [ I got to learn history here as well] but it was missing something from medieval and I was not sure what. I later concluded it was the battles that have been super charged for speed and a loss of immersion in the game. In medieval I felt like I was a king in the time period. However my brother found an amazing mod called Rome total Realism and that made Rome a great buy.

    I than bought medieval 2. This had improved over Rome in areas such as the battle speeds, but the AI and lack of MP campaign [along with all battles being sieges] kept it from being a great game and diminished my excitement for total war games. Empire was a vast improvement and added the much needed campaign mp but in a unreliable beta version. However I was back in love with total war ready to buy all the new titles.

    Than came shogun, I did not buy it as it was a time period of no interest to me. But given total realism type mods, I would buy it later if a mod came I liked. However this never came and the battles were back to super speed and worst yet, RPS combat controlled victory from what I was told. I was done with total war.

    But not for long. Rome 2 came out and was advertised as fixing many of the things I disliked about shogun. Less RPS effect, slower battles, [jack lusted you sneaky liar] and more historical authenticity. I thought for sure total realism would be able to fix any remaining issues so I bought the game assuming total realism could fix it. However this game was the worst yet, they had not only not fixed the issues, they added magic buttons in battles so the winner was who could click the right magic button the fastest and who could match up what unit with their counter unit [RPS] gone were the epic strategic, battles of medieval 1 and viking invasion. Terran, morale, holding your line, flanking etc matters less than hitting a magic button. Decision's on the campaign map seemed to have no actual effect on how well you played. But worst of all the game could not be fixed through modding. I had never been so disappointed [my fault for getting hyped up] in a game, it was the Indiana Jones 4 of video games.

    I have not since bought a total war game. However my interest was peeked when I heard of warhammer total war. If CA entered fantasy maybe my beloved lord of the rings might happen and it would fit perfectly into total war and the game makers could still have their magic buttons, but it would be ok. Or better yet, maybe a mod of LOTR for warhammer would be created. Sadly it was found out this game was not modabel so I did not buy the game.

    Ok I have given the backstory. I will not buy another total war given the direction they have gone since shogun 2 is not to my liking. Its sad but even a LOTR would likely be butchered. Clearly the sales are good but the direction is not for everyone.

    How it effects sales


    Lack of modding effects sales a few ways. I dont buy any games unless they can be drastically improved through total conversion mods. If a medieval 3 came out and could be modded the way medieval 2 games could, than without question I would buy it. Just see what the third age mod did. I bought kingdoms expansion years after third age was finished just to play the mod. If games could be modded like that than I would be willing to buy vanilla at release such as I did with Rome 2 with the anticipation of mods improving the game. Instead the games end with a no sale because of lack of modding.

    So when CA looks to number of sales after mods are released to view the impact, I think they are missing the majority of would be sales that modding could provide. They just dont see those numbers because those are people not buying the game at all, like me. I dont see a reason why I would not buy almost every total war game if it had the ability to be a total conversion mod similar to the way medieval 2 total war was.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; July 15, 2017 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Hard to Read title corrected and tendencious sentence removed

  2. #2
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: WHY LACK OF MODDING ABILITY CAUSES UNFORESEEN LOSSES IN SALES FOR CA

    Forgive my potential ignorance here, but to whom is this (your) post intended?

    I mean, CA-representatives can hardly be expected or assumed to read it or even be expected to care somehow... That very pattern have been established here for many years now... And, most modders here at the TWC (as far as I can tell) have probably already argued - for years and to little effect - that serious TW-"mods" increases both the longevity and relevancy of any TW-game, making it more viable and attractive as a product in general then it would had been otherwise because such works enables additional experiences and possibilities within that one game/platform. While CA have done little or nothing to actually change their current path and attitude as a result - as far as I can tell, that is... So, to whom on these boards are you actually preaching too/posting for? If not so, to what end are you posting for then?

    Or did I miss something? ...?...

    - A

  3. #3

    Default Re: WHY LACK OF MODDING ABILITY CAUSES UNFORESEEN LOSSES IN SALES FOR CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Forgive my potential ignorance here, but to whom is this (your) post intended?

    I mean, CA-representatives can hardly be expected or assumed to read it or even be expected to care somehow... That very pattern have been established here for many years now... And, most modders here at the TWC (as far as I can tell) have probably already argued - for years and to little effect - that serious TW-"mods" increases both the longevity and relevancy of any TW-game, making it more viable and attractive as a product in general then it would had been otherwise because such works enables additional experiences and possibilities within that one game/platform. While CA have done little or nothing to actually change their current path and attitude as a result - as far as I can tell, that is... So, to whom on these boards are you actually preaching too/posting for? If not so, to what end are you posting for then?

    Or did I miss something? ...?...

    - A
    well i guess it was hoped a ca rep would. At the very least to bring up the ideas in hopes it would prove a productive thread.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.”
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  4. #4
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: WHY LACK OF MODDING ABILITY CAUSES UNFORESEEN LOSSES IN SALES FOR CA

    As far as CA-reactions, participation and interaction goes.... I fear you are a bit overly optimistic/hopeful on your (first) post.
    CA have not done or attempted such stuff for a very long time (as I understand it). Sorry, but there you have it...

    - A

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    This was from todays Dev Diary for Crusader Kings 2. Yes I know it's Paradox but it's pretty simular in terms of what effect a modding community does for their games as a modding community does for Total War

    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...metry.1016606/

    "All told, 42% of everyone who played the game yesterday was using at least one mod. This could be anything from a small UI tweak, to a total conversion mod.
    On average, anyone using a mod was using 4.24 mods. Once you start using mods, most people are not content with just one.
    Further, here’s the 20 most popular mods, and how many percent of mod users (not overall users; multiply by 42% to get that number) that use them:

    A Game of Thrones - 45.4%
    Ruler Designer Unlocked - 30.2%
    Your Personal Castle - 24.9%
    Sketchy Cheat Menu - 18.1%
    CK2 Russian Localisation - 13.7%
    Historical Immersion Project - 11.3%
    A Sensible New Family - 10.7%
    CK2Plus - 10.6%
    Bigger Interface - 9.0%
    Purchase Claims - 8.8%
    Patrum Scuta - 8.6%
    Unique Buildings - 8.4%
    Novus Graphicus - 8.3%
    A Revolutionary Borders Mod - 8.0%
    Shattered World - 7.5%
    Korean SingleByte Patch - 7.2%
    CK2Plus - India - 7.1%
    Damascus Steel + Ancient Swords - 6.5%
    Better Looking Garbs - 6.3%
    Abdication - 6.2%

    Combined, these 20 mods represent 60% of all mod usage. Since people who use mods on average use more than just one, it also adds up to more than 100% of mod users."

    45.4% players use the Game of Thrones overhual Mod that is alot of people out of the 60% total userbase who use mods. I wonder how many copies of CK2 they wouldn't have sold becuase of that? I wonder how many copies of Medieval and Kingdom have been sold becuse of the Fourth Age and other mods? I wonder how many copies of Attila would have sold if it was possible to have the same sort of overhual mods.
    The percentage of users of the two main historical realism overhual mods are Historical Immersion Project - 11.3% and CK2Plus - 10.6% .

    Paradox gets it and I'm sure CA does. Whether SEGA does is the clincher as it's the publisher. Well it's easier for Paradox as they are their own publisher.
    Last edited by herne_the _hunter; July 17, 2017 at 03:16 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by herne_the _hunter View Post
    This was from todays Dev Diary for Crusader Kings 2. Yes I know it's Paradox but it's pretty simular in terms of what effect a modding community does for their games as a modding community does for Total War

    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...metry.1016606/

    "All told, 42% of everyone who played the game yesterday was using at least one mod. This could be anything from a small UI tweak, to a total conversion mod.
    On average, anyone using a mod was using 4.24 mods. Once you start using mods, most people are not content with just one.
    Further, here’s the 20 most popular mods, and how many percent of mod users (not overall users; multiply by 42% to get that number) that use them:

    A Game of Thrones - 45.4%
    Ruler Designer Unlocked - 30.2%
    Your Personal Castle - 24.9%
    Sketchy Cheat Menu - 18.1%
    CK2 Russian Localisation - 13.7%
    Historical Immersion Project - 11.3%
    A Sensible New Family - 10.7%
    CK2Plus - 10.6%
    Bigger Interface - 9.0%
    Purchase Claims - 8.8%
    Patrum Scuta - 8.6%
    Unique Buildings - 8.4%
    Novus Graphicus - 8.3%
    A Revolutionary Borders Mod - 8.0%
    Shattered World - 7.5%
    Korean SingleByte Patch - 7.2%
    CK2Plus - India - 7.1%
    Damascus Steel + Ancient Swords - 6.5%
    Better Looking Garbs - 6.3%
    Abdication - 6.2%

    Combined, these 20 mods represent 60% of all mod usage. Since people who use mods on average use more than just one, it also adds up to more than 100% of mod users."

    45.4% players use the Game of Thrones overhual Mod that is alot of people out of the 60% total userbase who use mods. I wonder how many copies of CK2 they wouldn't have sold becuase of that? I wonder how many copies of Medieval and Kingdom have been sold becuse of the Fourth Age and other mods? I wonder how many copies of Attila would have sold if it was possible to have the same sort of overhual mods.
    The percentage of users of the two main historical realism overhual mods are Historical Immersion Project - 11.3% and CK2Plus - 10.6% .

    Paradox gets it and I'm sure CA does. Whether SEGA does is the clincher as it's the publisher. Well it's easier for Paradox as they are their own publisher.
    great post thanks.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.”
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  7. #7
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Agreed. Nice info.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    It's rather simple: M2TW is still being played and modded after ten years because of the availability of tools and resources. The lack of these tools and resources in my eyes have made every game version thereafter irrelevant as soon as the next version came out (anyone still remembering, never mind playing Shogun2?). The dumbing down of content (traits, ancillary, buildings, events etc) didn't help one bit either. 'The last Roman' DLC used to be something that could be added to a mod without much effort, now it's something special and requires a degree in programming.
    It is however an understandable sales strategy given the steadily diminishing attention span of players (check the steam discussion fora for some truly inspiring face palm moments) and related focusing towards the 'arcade' element. I wouldn't be much surprised if eventually the strategic part would be totally abandoned in favor of custom battle maps. And no, I am not even being sarcastic.

    Edit: as to the title of the thread - I have doubts it's either unforeseen or even a loss in sales. Loss of popularity of individual versions has my agreement however which, if increased, could lead to continued and improved sales. A loss indicates diminished\reduced revenue which is very unlikely to be the case here.
    Last edited by Gigantus; July 18, 2017 at 12:20 AM.










  9. #9

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    It's rather simple: M2TW is still being played and modded after ten years because of the availability of tools and resources. The lack of these tools and resources in my eyes have made every game version thereafter irrelevant as soon as the next version came out (anyone still remembering, never mind playing Shogun2?). The dumbing down of content (traits, ancillary, buildings, events etc) didn't help one bit either. 'The last Roman' DLC used to be something that could be added to a mod without much effort, now it's something special and requires a degree in programming.
    It is however an understandable sales strategy given the steadily diminishing attention span of players (check the steam discussion fora for some truly inspiring face palm moments) and related focusing towards the 'arcade' element. I wouldn't be much surprised if eventually the strategic part would be totally abandoned in favor of custom battle maps. And no, I am not even being sarcastic.

    Edit: as to the title of the thread - I have doubts it's either unforeseen or even a loss in sales. Loss of popularity of individual versions has my agreement however which, if increased, could lead to continued and improved sales. A loss indicates diminished\reduced revenue which is very unlikely to be the case here.
    great post and i agree fully. However what should i call it when i would buy a game if it were modable like medieval 2, but wont because its not. isent that a loss of potential sale?
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.”
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    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by twc01 View Post
    great post and i agree fully. However what should i call it when i would buy a game if it were modable like medieval 2, but wont because its not. isent that a loss of potential sale?
    Thing is, it may be that for every modding-enthusiast who won't buy a Total War game that's been too dumbed down, there are two 12 year olds who were not buying previous total war games because they were too complicated. So they could be doubling their revenues whilst still losing scores of customers just through attracting even more new ones.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    Thing is, it may be that for every modding-enthusiast who won't buy a Total War game that's been too dumbed down, there are two 12 year olds who were not buying previous total war games because they were too complicated. So they could be doubling their revenues whilst still losing scores of customers just through attracting even more new ones.
    sadly i think your correct, but modding than seems the solution to gain both the 12 years olds [newer games] and the old guys like me who loved the earlier games.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.”
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    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    Thing is, it may be that for every modding-enthusiast who won't buy a Total War game that's been too dumbed down, there are two 12 year olds who were not buying previous total war games because they were too complicated. So they could be doubling their revenues whilst still losing scores of customers just through attracting even more new ones.
    That's about it, in condensed form.

    Quote Originally Posted by twc01 View Post
    sadly i think your correct, but modding than seems the solution to gain both the 12 years olds [newer games] and the old guys like me who loved the earlier games.
    Short attention span and modding are mutually exclusive, as such it would only be the older guys that would be addressed as customers. Who, through mods, would extend the life span of a game version, which would be lost on short attention span customers. Catch 21, I would say, can't really have both without committing additional resources - seemingly not deemed feasible anymore in a corporate world. And as long as DLCs with minor content can be sold for amounts that accumulate to multiple times the cost of the base game modding isn't going to be encouraged. A new faction for 5$, two new overlords for 3$ - there was a time when you were able to get total conversions for free....
    Last edited by Gigantus; July 18, 2017 at 09:20 PM.










  13. #13
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by herne_the _hunter View Post
    *snip*

    The percentage of users of the two main historical realism overhual mods are Historical Immersion Project - 11.3% and CK2Plus - 10.6% .

    Paradox gets it and I'm sure CA does. Whether SEGA does is the clincher as it's the publisher. Well it's easier for Paradox as they are their own publisher.
    I would say Bethesda does the same thing as Paradox and one only have to look at Morrowind to understand why people are still modding the game and release mods for Morrowind that's over 15 years old game. Bethesda released Morrowind in early May 2002.

    Because Bethesda also make sure that any player could use a modding tool, called The Construction Set, to modify the game.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    The dumbing down of content (traits, ancillary, buildings, events etc) didn't help one bit either.
    As a fan of all TW games from R1/M2 straight thru to Rome II (and beyond) it is hilarious how you guys honestly have convinced yourselves that traits and ancillaries in R1/M2 were deep or complex and that their removal was "dumbing" down.

    It's almost as if you people truly believe you're all geniuses in your own minds, which of course statements like prove otherwise, quite the opposite really. But this is the problem with echo chambers such as TW Center, you have all been huffing your own aromas so long you're convinced they smell of roses.

    Traits and ancillaries / retainers required absolutely no thought on the player's part. Most generals would accumulate them simply by parking in a city for a few turns. They were so numerous and certain traits so ubiquitous that they lost all meaning. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or just did not play R1 or M2. That's just the way it is.

    Rome 2's trait system made generals unique, albeit more limited. I was not a big fan of the idle traits and their handling, no doubt there to force the player to keep their generals active, but otherwise I enjoyed being able to customize my generals in a meaningful way not simply dropping two or three ancillaries from one general to another before the eldest one died.

    It's almost like TW Center is bizarro-world where up is down and black is white. How can anyone, who has even a basic high school education and simple critical thinking skills, consider that R1 and M2's building / character system is more complex than that of the later games?

    You guys DO realize that R1's building trees were completely linear right? Linear. As in a straight line, from A to B without deviation. You upgrade one set of walls to be a better set of walls. You build one set of barracks to be a better set of barracks. (The exception being the religious building.) There's no complexity or depth in that system.

    Rome II's system, on the other hand, gives you meaningful choices. You can either specialize your provinces for production or agriculture or commerce/trade or for military training but all at a cost. Do you build military training units at the cost of your economy? or do you set aside a settlement for farming to build up your food reserves.

    Unmodded Rome I was little more than a simplified game of classical era Risk. Diplomacy was less than useless in R1 and completely broken in M2 (with its long unpatched diplo-bug where razing a settlement actually gave less of a diplo-hit than simply occupying it).

    I'm convinced people like Gigantus have forgotten what vanilla R1/M2 was like and have had their memories replaced with that of a modded game that fixed a ton of the issues CA has left in their older games.



    Swear word removed. ~ Frunk
    Last edited by Frunk; August 23, 2017 at 07:17 AM. Reason: Censor bypassing.

  15. #15
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance of Power View Post
    I'm convinced people like Gigantus have forgotten what vanilla R1/M2 was like and have had their memories replaced with that of a modded game that fixed a ton of the issues CA has left in their older games.
    Why on earth would I compare vanilla versions? Just because the moddability of the new versions is a fraction of the R1\M2 versions? If there was no modding involved I wouldn't bother to compare to start with - we all know the short comings of the original games, you listed them adequately. These short comings are the fundamental reason why total conversions are still done for R1\M2, an option you don't have with the newer versions - ETW, NTW, S2 are pretty much dead when it comes to modding, R2 is starting to wither already and Attila isn't far behind.

    And maybe have a look at the title of the thread as well next time: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA
    Last edited by Frunk; August 23, 2017 at 07:18 AM. Reason: Continuity.










  16. #16

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance of Power View Post
    It's almost like TW Center is bizarro-world where up is down and black is white. How can anyone, who has even a basic high school education and simple critical thinking skills, consider that R1 and M2's building / character system is more complex than that of the later games?
    Because people tend to have different opinions. You seem to prefer to be able to customize every general at will like an RPG and that's fine, but I disagree, because I find this procedure utterly unbelievable and view the trait system as a way of watching every character's unique personality gradually evolving and not a machine of mass-producing specialists. Rome's II system is immersion-breaking for me, because it feels like I am God designing Abraham, while to me playing TW always felt like being the head of the government or the army. In Rome there was a nice balance between randomness and logic, where a general would have turned into a drunkard if he stayed idle in a place with a tavern available or a scientific genius, accompanied by actual philosophers, if he grew in a city where a Scriptorium was built. I believe that the same issue about credibility applies into the building system, too. which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Lack of slots is not a very convincing way to prevent a settlement from turning into a commercial hub and a recruitment center simultaneously. Lack of money and time would be more appropriate, in my opinion, and on that regard, even Rome's I problematic system was closer to reality. Some may find it a satisfying method of adding strategy into the game, but, in my opinion, restricting the game's scope and the player's freedom is the easiest and laziest way to make it artificially harder and, unfortunately, not very immersive. Obviously, planning a more reasonable economy, where you cannot possibly collect an infinitely increasing amount of money, would be unnecessarily time and money-consuming for Creative Assembly. By the way, building wasn't completely linear in Rome I either, because you couldn't build every religious building. A restriction which I also found it stupid, because it ignored the concept of multi-religious empires, again attempting to unhistorically making the stabilisation of the public order harder.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    At the end of the day, I'm still playing Medieval II Total War mods. I'd say 90% or more of the time I spend on Total War, is spent on M2TW mods,and 10% on Attila TW. I've poured thousands of hours into RTW and Medieval 2, using mods for both games, although I sometimes still play Rome TW unmodded as well. By contrast, I've put only a fraction of the time into the later games and haven't even played all the factions. It just doesn't interest me. The games don't hold my attention or make me want to come back for more. Attila is a much better game than Rome II, imo. But it still suffers from too fast combat animation, troops blobbing together so you can't see what's happening, and a lack of building options on the map. It also lacks the beautiful music and interesting information scrolls on each unit and building that previous games had.

    I'll play Attila sometimes but I've no interest whatsoever in Warhammer and I still spend the vast majority of my time on Medieval II with mods. I suspect that I am unlikely ever again to buy a Total War game. I don't mind DLCs if they're interesting but you need to make the base game fun. There are other games in my collection (non-Total War) where I've spent over $600 on downloading additional content for a single game. CA are missing out massively on how much they could be earning if they did things right. IMO abandoning the core fanbase that made the TW series great is a colossal blunder. Instead of being afraid to be a historical strategy series, which is what this game is, they should embrace it and accept that it's not going to be for everyone. They should stop chasing the fast-clicking 13 years who aren't interested that much in the game anyway and never will be, and concentrate on the hardcore fanbase which is willing to spend virtually unlimited amounts of money on the game they love, if you just give them the depth they want.

    As noted by others here, CA's attitude of utter lack of respect, and even contempt, for its own fanbase indicates which way the wind is blowing. People being banned from the offical TW forums for criticising the game, for example. A pack of lies being sold to people with Rome II. Launching a broken game time after time with major bugs that should have been caught in basic testing. This goes back a long way, at least as far as Medieval II itself in 2006. But at least that game was moddable. And was rescued and turned into a classic as a result.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    I am quite impressed by the fact that you managed to make such a rant but still manage to phrase it in such a way that it is neither relevant to the thread nor to the topic you are trying to introduce to the thread.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance of Power View Post
    As a fan of all TW games from R1/M2 straight thru to Rome II (and beyond) it is hilarious how you guys honestly have convinced yourselves that traits and ancillaries in R1/M2 were deep or complex and that their removal was "dumbing" down.

    It's almost as if you people truly believe you're all geniuses in your own minds, which of course statements like prove otherwise, quite the opposite really. But this is the problem with echo chambers such as TW Center, you have all been huffing your own aromas so long you're convinced they smell of roses.

    Traits and ancillaries / retainers required absolutely no thought on the player's part. Most generals would accumulate them simply by parking in a city for a few turns. They were so numerous and certain traits so ubiquitous that they lost all meaning. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or just did not play R1 or M2. That's just the way it is.

    Rome 2's trait system made generals unique, albeit more limited. I was not a big fan of the idle traits and their handling, no doubt there to force the player to keep their generals active, but otherwise I enjoyed being able to customize my generals in a meaningful way not simply dropping two or three ancillaries from one general to another before the eldest one died.

    How can anyone, who has even a basic high school education and simple critical thinking skills, consider that R1 and M2's building / character system is more complex than that of the later games?
    Quite a lot of truth claims that are ultimately a matter of taste. And it would be remotely interesting if it was even on topic.

    The apparent randomness element in traits and ancillaries is probably a reason why people liked it. Being able to choose skills naturally is the opposite of that, and thus naturally if you liked X and no longer had it, you're probably not going to be happy about that.
    But you're merely wrong in saying it had required no player interaction. Hell in Warhammer, you got a skill like "Likes Greenskins" as a direct result of fighting Greenskins, at least getting an "Attacker" trait in RTW required as many as three separate things: luck, inheritance, and attacking enemy armies. And trust me, it's almost never the first two. What you won't get is an attacker trait from sitting around in a city. But I'm sure your use of superlatives was just your hormones getting the best of you.

    How could a system that utilized a very long list of traits be inferior to a far more limited system that merely let's you choose which were (clearly) the better skills? I'll never choose authority skills for my general, I just attach a dignitary and have him focus on the skill that enables night battles, the skill that increases replenishment, and the skill that increases movement range of army. In fact I do that with every general I got, since everything else you can compensate by other factors like weapon upgrades.

    You also don't need high school education or critical thinking skills, you just need to actually read the traits list in the game files. Guess you lacked all three.

  19. #19
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    Right, let me make this an official moderation note:

    This is the title of the thread: Why lack of modding ability causes unforeseen losses in sales for CA
    Do stay on topic.










  20. #20

    Default Re: Why lack of modding ability causes unforseen losses in sales for CA

    No it doesn't, because what was once a mod is now paid dlc.

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