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Thread: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

  1. #81

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    The blog took it from here:
    http://www.marineregions.org/gazette...etails&id=5679
    marineregions.org
    You can read in the "about" page who they are.

    About the Turkish map, like I said in the previous page (and you pretend not to have seen it) Atun is one of the decision makers regarding turkish EEZ. In fact, the movements of the Turkish Barbaros is exactly in areas of the Cypriot EEZ that Turkey claims as its own.

    Greece is pretty much covered legally in its EEZ carving. The question is, if Turkey thinks it has a case, and thinks that what Greece does is injust, why isn't Turkey taking the initiative to take the case to court? And don't tell me "why isn't Greece or Cyprus taking the case to court?". Both Greece and Cyprus have enough legal evidence to cut a deal with French and other petroleum corporations (the French Total is one, there are others). Do you seriously think that these corporations would even come to the area, let alone conduct expensive research and drilling if they were not convinced that the Cypriots had a strong legal position and that the areas which were designated to the companies were in fact Cyprus's to designate in the first place? Hell, they would stand to lose MILLIONS if it turned out that the designated areas belonged to Turkey or someone else.
    It is therefore quite obvious that Turkey is just trying to bully its way in the deal. Well, it's not working.

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    The blog took it from here:
    http://www.marineregions.org/gazette...etails&id=5679
    marineregions.org
    You can read in the "about" page who they are.

    About the Turkish map, like I said in the previous page (and you pretend not to have seen it) Atun is one of the decision makers regarding turkish EEZ. In fact, the movements of the Turkish Barbaros is exactly in areas of the Cypriot EEZ that Turkey claims as its own.

    Greece is pretty much covered legally in its EEZ carving. The question is, if Turkey thinks it has a case, and thinks that what Greece does is injust, why isn't Turkey taking the initiative to take the case to court? And don't tell me "why isn't Greece or Cyprus taking the case to court?". Both Greece and Cyprus have enough legal evidence to cut a deal with French and other petroleum corporations (the French Total is one, there are others). Do you seriously think that these corporations would even come to the area, let alone conduct expensive research and drilling if they were not convinced that the Cypriots had a strong legal position and that the areas which were designated to the companies were in fact Cyprus's to designate in the first place? Hell, they would stand to lose MILLIONS if it turned out that the designated areas belonged to Turkey or someone else.
    It is therefore quite obvious that Turkey is just trying to bully its way in the deal. Well, it's not working.
    Nice Google search there. It is better if you do this kind of research from the get go instead of jumping to any source regardless of how questionable they are while trying to pass them off as some kind of the the authority... The Flanders Marine Institute's interpretation ignores other principles of UNCLOS, such as the equity, and decisions of various arbitration processes. Hence, it's incomplete.

    Atun was not a decision maker. He was supposedly part of a delegate. A map produced years after he had that job (which we don't really have the context of) doesn't really carry much weight as much as you like it to be. In reality, you don't really have a map of what Turkey ultimately wants.

    Continuing to ignore real arbitration on a similar situation, I see. It's quite unfortunate that you have to depend on ignoring facts to keep your narrative alive.

    The petroleum firms couldn't give two about the legality of where they drill. They know very well that they'll likely continue their operation no matter what is the outcome.

    Why Turkey didn't take Greece to court? Because they expressly stated that they wanted a bilateral agreement between two parties rather than a third party dictating what should be done.
    The Armenian Issue

  3. #83

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    The funny thing is that nothing comes out from Northern Cyprus about this fact, what has happened, Northern Cyprus has outsourced its foreign policy to Turkey?

  4. #84

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Nice Google search there. It is better if you do this kind of research from the get go instead of jumping to any source regardless of how questionable they are while trying to pass them off as some kind of the the authority... The Flanders Marine Institute's interpretation ignores other principles of UNCLOS, such as the equity, and decisions of various arbitration processes. Hence, it's incomplete.

    Atun was not a decision maker. He was supposedly part of a delegate. A map produced years after he had that job (which we don't really have the context of) doesn't really carry much weight as much as you like it to be. In reality, you don't really have a map of what Turkey ultimately wants.

    Continuing to ignore real arbitration on a similar situation, I see. It's quite unfortunate that you have to depend on ignoring facts to keep your narrative alive.

    The petroleum firms couldn't give two about the legality of where they drill. They know very well that they'll likely continue their operation no matter what is the outcome.

    Why Turkey didn't take Greece to court? Because they expressly stated that they wanted a bilateral agreement between two parties rather than a third party dictating what should be done.
    I've brought data regarding the Greek map, you've brought nothing except your opinion. Are you an expert on the subject? I assume not. Bring some sources on what you say here:
    The Flanders Marine Institute's interpretation ignores other principles of UNCLOS, such as the equity, and decisions of various arbitration processes. Hence, it's incomplete.
    There are no decisions on "various arbitration processes" (nice general statement), and there is no "equity" that Turkey can claim.

    Atun was not a decision maker. He was supposedly part of a delegate. A map produced years after he had that job (which we don't really have the context of) doesn't really carry much weight as much as you like it to be. In reality, you don't really have a map of what Turkey ultimately wants.
    Atun IS a policy maker. His map is the turkish "scientific" view of the EEZ. The view that Turkey accepts this map is further strengthened from the fact that the Barbaross conducts searches in areas that are "turkish" according to that map.

    The petroleum firms couldn't give two about the legality of where they drill. They know very well that they'll likely continue their operation no matter what is the outcome.
    Not really. If it were to turn out that the EEZ area is not Cypriot, then the side to which it "legally" would belong might want to change the deal. That could translate into millions of dollars of damage.

    Why Turkey didn't take Greece to court? Because they expressly stated that they wanted a bilateral agreement between two parties rather than a third party dictating what should be done.
    Turkey has time and time again proven that it is not a reliable negotiator. Turkey has threatened Greece numerous times, its aircraft violate Greek airspace all the time (I remind you that Turkey downed a Russian airplane for 1 SINGLE VIOLATION, if Greece were to act like that the two countries would be at war now) and even recently its own president has used racist terms to refer to the Greeks. Furthermore, Turkey hasn't even signed the UNCLOS, so there is no basis from which to start. If someone doesn't want to go to court, then it's clear that this person knows that law is not on his side. I think it's clear to anyone who wants to see what's going on, that Turkey doesn't want any negotiations based on law. Turkey merely wishes to bully its way through. Well, it doesn't work like that.

    To sum up Turkish arguments are shot down faster than an AH-1W over Kurdistan. Tureuki, at least, posted some honest posts back there.

    The funny thing is that nothing comes out from Northern Cyprus about this fact, what has happened, Northern Cyprus has outsourced its foreign policy to Turkey?

    Noooooo, "Northern Cyprus" is "independent, not a puppet state at all. Why would you think that? .

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    I've brought data regarding the Greek map, you've brought nothing except your opinion. Are you an expert on the subject? I assume not. Bring some sources on what you say here: There are no decisions on "various arbitration processes" (nice general statement), and there is no "equity" that Turkey can claim.

    Atun IS a policy maker. His map is the turkish "scientific" view of the EEZ. The view that Turkey accepts this map is further strengthened from the fact that the Barbaross conducts searches in areas that are "turkish" according to that map.

    Not really. If it were to turn out that the EEZ area is not Cypriot, then the side to which it "legally" would belong might want to change the deal. That could translate into millions of dollars of damage.

    Turkey has time and time again proven that it is not a reliable negotiator. Turkey has threatened Greece numerous times, its aircraft violate Greek airspace all the time (I remind you that Turkey downed a Russian airplane for 1 SINGLE VIOLATION, if Greece were to act like that the two countries would be at war now) and even recently its own president has used racist terms to refer to the Greeks. Furthermore, Turkey hasn't even signed the UNCLOS, so there is no basis from which to start. If someone doesn't want to go to court, then it's clear that this person knows that law is not on his side. I think it's clear to anyone who wants to see what's going on, that Turkey doesn't want any negotiations based on law. Turkey merely wishes to bully its way through. Well, it doesn't work like that.

    To sum up Turkish arguments are shot down faster than an AH-1W over Kurdistan. Tureuki, at least, posted some honest posts back there.
    Sigh... Yes, there are actual arbitration decisions that doesn't back up what Greece wants. You're merely trying to dance around the example I already gave... Atun was not a decision maker. You have no information to suggest that. You have no information to suggest that his map was or is the official stance of Turkey. You're using a map that came into being after 2009 when Atun was a delegate before 2004. You're using a map by a citizen of Northern Cyprus to pass it off as a stance of Turkey... Your arguments failed enough. You're grasping at straws now.
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #86

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    To continue to push this, when everyone here knows that it is your arguments that convince nobody is funny. So, in your reading, despite the fact that you brought NO example that involves GREEECE or CYPRUS you are the winner here.
    Furthermore, you completely failed to explain why on Earth Cyprus should share the gas with "Northern Cyprus", which broke away from it.
    You completely failed to explain why Turkey doesn't go to the Hague, if Turkey thinks that she is right in the dispute, but only wishes to engage in "bilateral talks", with a country that she has repeatedly threatened, violated airspace, violated territorial waters, and used racist terms against.
    I believe that your arguments here have been shot down faster than an F4 over Syria. And Not just me, but also every non-turkish individual who wrote anything here.
    To add something to the discussion:
    https://www.dailysabah.com/eu-affair...-minister-says

    Exclusion of Turkish troops in Cyprus off the table, EU Minister says

    I wonder when the turk-cypriots will rebel and kick turkish troops off Cyprus themselves. It will be really funny if the Cypriots get an even higher per capita income than they have now (at this point it's almost double that of turk-cypriots), and the income of turk cypriots drops even more.

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  7. #87
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    A friendly reminder that posts of "You proved nothing" over and over from the same poster to the same poster will eventually be considered disruptive. There are other people that want to partake in the discussion.
    We're not at disruptive posting yet, but it heads that way.
    Last edited by alhoon; July 18, 2017 at 04:07 PM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  8. #88

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    This just in:
    http://en.protothema.gr/two-back-to-...t-pavlopoulos/

    Turkish radar warned the helicopter carrying the President of the Hellenic Republic to Farmakonisi, that the Chinook was in "turkish airspace", and asked the helicopter to change course (which did not happen).

    This is the country that wants to have bilateral discussions with Greece regarding the extend of Greek EEZ. Well, to my knowledge, when two individuals can't possible communicate with each other, then it's the role of the court to arbitrate.

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    So Turkey apparently reiterates her role as an international belligerent, by actually conducting research in an EEZ that it has no business being in:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Turkish oceanographic ship Barbaros, conducting oil research in an area south of Cyprus, well outside turkish EEZ.

    And this is its position a few days ago, much closer to the cypriot areas:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Last edited by alhoon; July 22, 2017 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Big images in spoiler tags

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Erdogan threatens Cyprus and oil companies over gas reserves, gets ignored

    Total Launches New Drilling Era Offshore Cyprus, Much to Turkey’s Dismay
    http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/...urkeys-dismay/

    Turkey is in a bad spot, indeed.

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

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