Why Muslims cannot allow Jesus anywhere near the cross.

[basics]

The Epitaph on the Cross of Yeshua
By Chuck Missler (From his Book "The Creator Beyond Time and Space")

Throughout the Tanach-our Old Testament-there are many fascinating acrostics and other textual peculiarities that will fascinate the diligent scholar. In the New Testament there also appears to be a Hebrew acrostic that generally goes unnoticed.

Meaning of the word Acrostic: A composition in verse , in which the first, and sometimes last, letters of the line read in order form a name, a sentence, or title.

When Jesus was crucified, Pilate wrote the sign that was nailed to the cross. The particular wording he chose displeased the Jewish leadership and they asked him to change it. He refused. There are some interesting aspects to this incident that are not apparent in our English translations.

"And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, 'Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.' This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin. Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, 'Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.' Pilate answered. 'What I have written I have written.'"
John 19:19-22 (KJV)

Pilate refused to revise the epitaph he had composed. This may have more significance than is apparent in our English translations. The Hebrew epitaph is shown below (remember Hebrew is read from right to left):
Ha Yehudi m vMelech HaNazarei Yeshua

YHWH

H W H Y

Yeshua HaNazarei v Melech HaYehudim: Jesus the Nazarei and King of the Jews.

What we don't notice in the English translation is that the acrostic made up of the first letter of each word spells out Yahweh (YHWH)!

"The precise meaning," writes Herbert F. Stevenson, "of the name is obscure. In the Hebrew, It was originally composed of four consonants YHWH - known to theologians as 'the tetragrammaton' - to which the vowels of Adonai were afterwards added (except when the name is joined to Adonai: then the vowels of Elohim are used). The Jews came to regard this name as too sacred to pronounce, however, and in the public reading of Scriptures they substituted Adonai for it - Jehovah was indeed to them 'the incommunicable name.'"

If Pilate had rewritten it in the manner they had requested him to, it would not have spelled out the Name of God. Did Pilate realize this? Was it deliberate? Did he do it just to upset the Jewish leadership, which he realized delivered Him up for Envy? (Matthew 27:18). Or was he beginning to suspect that there was more going on here than he previously realized?

When they requested a special guard for the tomb, he also responded with a enigmatic remark, "Make it as sure as you can." (Matthew 27:63-66). What did he mean by that/ Did he begin to suspect that Jesus really was who said He was? Was Pilate really surprised when Jesus was resurrected after three days? One wonders.

There are many other examples of acrotics in the Biblical text. For example, in the book of Esther the name of God does not appear in the text outright. However, it is found hidden as an acrostic in numerous places throughout the text of Esther. This should not be a surprise because the name Esther means "something hidden!"

So now we see why Islam cannot allow Jesus Christ anywhere near a cross of any sort never mind the one at Golgotha. Despite Roman records as well as witness testimony that He did indeed die on a cross to them it never happened. It can't have happened because it would destroy all Mohammed's theories as to why he is the last word on God. We know from Scripture that there is only one power that wants to overthrow Jesus and it knows how to obtain obedience to his will and therefore in appealing to the baser instincts of man we have 72 virgins as a reward for their services. So let's assume that there are one billion Muslim men on the planet at the moment and when they die all get 72 virgins that makes 72 billion virgins needed to satisfy just what is here and not what have been Muslim and died before so where are these beauties all coming from? What happens when they run out of virgins as will happen as their virginity disappears which has to happen?

[Prodromos]

The Jesus of Christianity is so different from the Islamic one, that I don't think they can be considered the same person at all. Would an insect named Giraffe be considered a giraffe? They have the same name but very different natures. My guess is that Muhammad adopted elements from Judaism and Christianity to gain legitimacy and followers, but eventually decided the jig was up and declared eternal war against the Jews and Christians.

Pilate refused to revise the epitaph he had composed. This may have more significance than is apparent in our English translations. The Hebrew epitaph is shown below (remember Hebrew is read from right to left):
Ha Yehudi m vMelech HaNazarei Yeshua

YHWH

H W H Y

Yeshua HaNazarei v Melech HaYehudim: Jesus the Nazarei and King of the Jews.

What we don't notice in the English translation is that the acrostic made up of the first letter of each word spells out Yahweh (YHWH)!

Huge if true.

When they requested a special guard for the tomb, he also responded with a enigmatic remark, "Make it as sure as you can." (Matthew 27:63-66). What did he mean by that/ Did he begin to suspect that Jesus really was who said He was? Was Pilate really surprised when Jesus was resurrected after three days? One wonders.

Maybe he was worried about someone just getting in and stealing the body?

63 “Sir,” they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first.”

65 “Take a guard,” Pilate answered. “Go, make the tomb as secure as you know how.” 66 So they went and made the tomb secure by putting a seal on the stone and posting the guard.

Then again if what you say about the epitaph is true, it's possible it wasn't a coincidence.

[basics]

Pilate knew that the Sanhedrin were trying to manipulate him not just because of potential tumult that could occur but also the fact that his wife warned him that there was more to Jesus and His teaching that fueled such enmity between Him and them. That in part is why he had written what was written and he was not going to let them interfere anymore. He hadn't a clue that what that was was a declaration that Jesus was and is God. Did the Jews know? Well only if they could speak the three languages based on the fact that it is highly unlikely that they did because of their hatred for anything Gentile.

[bigdaddy1204]

Hi basics, I believe this might be useful:

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-


— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158

I think this is pretty straightforward. The point is that his spirit was not killed but went to god. Thus Isa (Jesus) was not 'defeated' as such by his death on the cross but the divine mission he brought to the world lived on.

Bonus fact: Jesus is the most mentioned person in the Quran; 25 times by the name Isa, 3rd-person 48 times, 1st-person 35 times, the rest as titles and attributes.

[fkizz]

Hi basics, I believe this might be useful:

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-


— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158

I think this is pretty straightforward. The point is that his spirit was not killed but went to god. Thus Isa (Jesus) was not 'defeated' as such by his death on the cross but the divine mission he brought to the world lived on.

Bonus fact: Jesus is the most mentioned person in the Quran; 25 times by the name Isa, 3rd-person 48 times, 1st-person 35 times, the rest as titles and attributes.

This is coming from point of view of a Sufi, which is a rare thing in Islam and persecuted by Salafists. Many people who bash Islam have Salafists in mind and often aren't informed of Sufism.

[basics]

bigdaddy,

The point is that they did kill Him according to the Roman evidence in that Pilate only released His body because the Romans made sure He was dead before doing so. Of course when it was discovered that the tomb was empty rumours were quickly spread that He hadn't died or that He was never in it in the first place by the Jewish rulers to stamp out what was about to come and they failed miserably at that. Indeed one of their main " hitmen " was himself to be brought to realise that He had indeed been all that He claimed to be and as a result has himself become like Jesus the Christ a target for unbelievers and I am speaking of Saul of Tarsus here now known as Paul. So, what you have written only bolsters what the enemies of God have said or are still saying in the two thousand odd years ever since.

The question I then put to anyone interested is why Jesus the Christ is coming back to judge the world if He was only a messenger? God down through the centuries has had plenty of messengers but none have ever been titled " The Son of God " with the power that Jesus Christ displayed and will display when He comes back. Only God can judge in all righteousness and so just as it is written that on that great day, " Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." So, what Pilate had written knowingly or unknowingly was quite correct. What's amazing about it is that many have never been taught what the Hebrew Latin and Greek depicted yet by faith they still come to Him as their Lord and Saviour from out of all sorts of beliefs.

[Cyclops]

Good news though, a "researcher" has found hidden messages about UFOs and Roswell in Genesis!

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/hidden...the_bible_code

The Epitaph on the Cross of Yeshua...
.
Ha Yehudi m vMelech HaNazarei Yeshua

YHWH

No, its H Y M H N Y, reversed that is YNHMYH.

Sadly your acrostic doesn't work. Also there are four different versions of the inscription in the four gospels, are you saying the one in John is true and the others are false?

[sumskilz]

Good news though, a "researcher" has found hidden messages about UFOs and Roswell in Genesis!

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/hidden...the_bible_code

At first I thought you recognized the source of this theory, Chuck Missler, who also wrote Alien Encounters: The Secret Behind the UFO Phenomenon.

No, its H Y M H N Y, reversed that is YNHMYH.

Sadly your acrostic doesn't work. Also there are four different versions of the inscription in the four gospels, are you saying the one in John is true and the others are false?

Well he wrote it wrong. He meant Yeshua HaNazarei wMelech HaYehudim, which is YHWH without being reversed, because ha and w are written as prefixes in Hebrew. The only problem is that it's terrible Hebrew. Missler must have written it word for word from English without any clue about Hebrew grammar. If it was in Hebrew, it would be Yeshua Nazarti Melech HaYehudim or more properly yšwᶜ nṣrty mlk hyhwdym. Assuming the story is accurate, it seems more likely to have been in Aramaic, which would be yšwᶜ nṣryᵓ mlkᵓ dyhwdyᵓ.

[basics]

Cyclops,

Your reply is exactly what I was talking about in that you will seek out anything to try to debunk what Missler said. John to our knowledge was the only disciple at the cross along with Mary the mother of Jesus as well as other women, so one would suspect that John's version would be the closest to what was there. That said all these disciples with perhaps the exception of Mathew were unread so unlikely to understand both Greek and Latin never mind struggle with Hebrew. The point is that Jesus Christ was indeed the King of the Jews both through the line of Joseph but even more so though Mary's line. Gabriel as well as the Magi confirmed that as well as Herod's people when they investigated the matter so that part is without any doubt.

As to whether He was God in the flesh came not only by all the prophets including God at the fall of man but by Jesus' own words. The number of times He said He was the " I AM, " is said eight times in John, twenty seven times in Revelation.

[Iskar]

Please remember that quotes need to be in quote tags ([quote] in front, and [/quote] at the end) for easier viewing and external quotes need to be accompanied by your own thoughts about them. Simply copy pasting articles adds nothing to the discussion and is severely disruptive.

Thank you for your understanding.

[basics]

Dr. Legend,

It was the Sanhedrin that were worried about the body not so much Pilate and that is why he authorised them to place guards at at the sealed entrance. It was the Sanhedrin who spread the rumours that His disciples carried Him away to make it appear that He had risen which is not so surprising in that they knew of Him having raised Lazarus from the dead and they had plans to deal with that man as well. These same rumours were quickly adopted by Mohammed to further his own ambition adding in the intercession of Gabriel the angel of God but what is surprising about that is that for four thousand odd years Gabriel, the real one, had been predicting all that Jesus was and still is. Had he been lying for all that time? Paul answers that one in his letter to the Galatians when he says that even if an angel brings another gospel other than the one he was given to preach that angel as well as any person is cursed.

[Prodromos]

basics,

I think you would be interested in this video. It's about half an hour long, but makes some good points about Muhammad's fake relation to Christianity.

[basics]

Dr. Legend,

Had seen it before but watched it again so thanks for the link. I think one can see why Islam cannot allow Jesus christ to have been on that cross because it destroys all that it stands for. Christians have the knowledge that their sin is gone and therefore can enter heaven when that is revealed to them and they believe but the poor ole Muslim has no such guarantee relying on mercy after he dies meaning that dying in his sin he cannot enter heaven. That is ever so sad but it is what they want all of us to believe and accept. There is only one being who would want people to believe that and it is not God so that doesn't leave any other than Satan who has from the very beginning fought against the Gospel.

[PointOfViewGun]

Dr. Legend,

Had seen it before but watched it again so thanks for the link. I think one can see why Islam cannot allow Jesus christ to have been on that cross because it destroys all that it stands for. Christians have the knowledge that their sin is gone and therefore can enter heaven when that is revealed to them and they believe but the poor ole Muslim has no such guarantee relying on mercy after he dies meaning that dying in his sin he cannot enter heaven. That is ever so sad but it is what they want all of us to believe and accept. There is only one being who would want people to believe that and it is not God so that doesn't leave any other than Satan who has from the very beginning fought against the Gospel.

Logic jumps, logic jumps everywhere... Jesus getting crucified for the sins of people who are not born or anyone other than him is quite pointless and paradoxial as it violates basic principles of life and logic. However, how is not believing in such a basic reality is a product of Satan is perhaps one of the biggest logic jumps there is.

[basics]

Logic jumps, logic jumps everywhere... Jesus getting crucified for the sins of people who are not born or anyone other than him is quite pointless and paradoxial as it violates basic principles of life and logic. However, how is not believing in such a basic reality is a product of Satan is perhaps one of the biggest logic jumps there is.

Setekh,

Oh boy, you don't half take the biscuit. The whole point of creation was so that God could have communion with man not just as Creator but that man be part of His family. The logic is that man being made of conditions outside of God's world, heaven, was detrimental to that especially when man, Adam, disbelieved and then disobeyed Him and plunged the world into the curse of sin and ruling by Satan. It might surprise you to know that all this was ordained to be in heaven even before creation so we find that God's plan had nothing to do with man's logic rather a story of love that God had for the outcome wherein man could become part of His family and only because God was always involved for it to happen. Why so you might ask?

Well, God is a Spirit and where He lives is a Spiritual realm meaning that somehow man has to be in spirit to live there. That's why it is written that flesh and blood cannot enter heaven as only the Spiritual can. And, that is why Jesus the Christ, Son of God, was sent into the world to die for the sin of all those that sought Him out regardless of time. So, there is no sense in saying it is not logical when the whole affair has already been settled in heaven before the worlds were made. You and I are just playing out our lives now but our destinies were already sorted out long long ago, why? Because God knows the end from the beginning as He is the Alpha and Omega.

Therefore that is why it is written that Jesus Christ Himself being the Alpha and Omega is, through His blood sacrifice for the sins of man, is the only way that man can enter heaven but only if he believes what Jesus did as well as who He is resulting in Father, Son and Holy Spirit all acting in concert regenerate his soul as a sin freed entity for him to do so. That's God's promise made from the very fall of man some six thousand odd years ago meaning that only one sacrifice by God the Son was necessary to cover all time, our time. You see Justification is by faith and time is no obstacle to that. When God speaks something into existence it is done and that's why it is also written as well as factual that hearing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation as expressed further, unto all and upon all them that believe. Unto covers all time and upon covers the sealing of the promise to them that do believe. So, the cross and Jesus on it is without doubt the most important event ever to have taken place in our existence.

[PointOfViewGun]

Setekh,

Oh boy, you don't half take the biscuit. The whole point of creation was so that God could have communion with man not just as Creator but that man be part of His family. The logic is that man being made of conditions outside of God's world, heaven, was detrimental to that especially when man, Adam, disbelieved and then disobeyed Him and plunged the world into the curse of sin and ruling by Satan. It might surprise you to know that all this was ordained to be in heaven even before creation so we find that God's plan had nothing to do with man's logic rather a story of love that God had for the outcome wherein man could become part of His family and only because God was always involved for it to happen. Why so you might ask?

Well, God is a Spirit and where He lives is a Spiritual realm meaning that somehow man has to be in spirit to live there. That's why it is written that flesh and blood cannot enter heaven as only the Spiritual can. And, that is why Jesus the Christ, Son of God, was sent into the world to die for the sin of all those that sought Him out regardless of time. So, there is no sense in saying it is not logical when the whole affair has already been settled in heaven before the worlds were made. You and I are just playing out our lives now but our destinies were already sorted out long long ago, why? Because God knows the end from the beginning as He is the Alpha and Omega.

Therefore that is why it is written that Jesus Christ Himself being the Alpha and Omega is, through His blood sacrifice for the sins of man, is the only way that man can enter heaven but only if he believes what Jesus did as well as who He is resulting in Father, Son and Holy Spirit all acting in concert regenerate his soul as a sin freed entity for him to do so. That's God's promise made from the very fall of man some six thousand odd years ago meaning that only one sacrifice by God the Son was necessary to cover all time, our time. You see Justification is by faith and time is no obstacle to that. When God speaks something into existence it is done and that's why it is also written as well as factual that hearing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation as expressed further, unto all and upon all them that believe. Unto covers all time and upon covers the sealing of the promise to them that do believe. So, the cross and Jesus on it is without doubt the most important event ever to have taken place in our existence.

I'm not asking why as you're merely trying to come up with a word jungle to dilute any logical thought to avoid coming to terms with an illogical situation. The logic jump you utilize in the bold part is quite biblical. Let's make this simpler. In one sentence, what did Jesus sacrifice?

[Diocle]

.. what did Jesus sacrifice?

His life, for .. love. One of the most atrocious and painful deaths a human mind might think in return for nothing but .. a gratuitous, absolute, unconditional, immense ocean of love for mankind as eternal legacy.

Isn't it pure poetry?

I see that Muslims are still totally outmatched by this concept of winning while losing, of winning becoming a victim, loving your tormentors, kissing your assassins just to conquer millions souls with the example of your death. You're still suspecting some cheat, some middle eastern cheat, for you, Jesus made some trick to save his arse, you are still unable to see what he actually did on that cross! Fantastic!
You simply refuse, or fail to see that the trick it's that .. there's no trick!


What did he sacrifice Jesus the rabbi nailed on that Roman cross? Nothing special, just his life into a ocean of pain.

[PointOfViewGun]

His life, for .. love. One of the most atrocious and painful deaths a human mind might think in return for nothing but .. a gratuitous, absolute, unconditional, immense ocean of love for mankind as eternal legacy.

Isn't it pure poetry?

I see that you Muslims are still totally outmatched by this concept of winning while losing, of winning becoming a victim, loving your tormentors, kissing your assassins just to conquer millions souls with the example of your death. You're still suspecting some cheat, some middle eastern cheat, for you, Jesus made some trick to save his arse, you are still unable to see what he actually did on that cross! Fantastic!
You simply refuse, or fail to see that the trick it's that .. there's no trick!

What did he sacrifice Jesus the rabbi nailed on that Roman cross? Nothing special, just his life into a ocean of pain.

So, Jesus, being the son of God, is not able to get his life on Earth back?

[basics]

I'm not asking why as you're merely trying to come up with a word jungle to dilute any logical thought to avoid coming to terms with an illogical situation. The logic jump you utilize in the bold part is quite biblical. Let's make this simpler. In one sentence, what did Jesus sacrifice?

Setekh,

He sacrifced His humanity as our substitute on that cross so that His blood, unblemished blood, blood without sin, could satisfy the Law that demands death for sin. He became sin on our behalf so that we might not have to face the Law as all will at some point. and in doing so He brought upon Himself the full measure of wrath that the Father had to administer to all sinners. The minute He cried out, " It is finished," the veil in the Temple split asunder meaning that there now was a path to heaven if one accepts what Jesus Christ did for them on that cross. That's why Mohammedans cannot allow Jesus to have ever been on that cross and then be resurrected because Mohammed couldn't see beyond conquest of this earth if his ambition was to be fulfilled.

[PointOfViewGun]

Setekh,

He sacrifced His humanity as our substitute on that cross so that His blood, unblemished blood, blood without sin, could satisfy the Law that demands death for sin. He became sin on our behalf so that we might not have to face the Law as all will at some point. and in doing so He brought upon Himself the full measure of wrath that the Father had to administer to all sinners. The minute He cried out, " It is finished," the veil in the Temple split asunder meaning that there now was a path to heaven if one accepts what Jesus Christ did for them on that cross. That's why Mohammedans cannot allow Jesus to have ever been on that cross and then be resurrected because Mohammed couldn't see beyond conquest of this earth if his ambition was to be fulfilled.

Aside from the logic in that last sentence making no sense, are you telling us that Jesus, the son of God, is incapable of returning to Earth by his own will?