State Barbarism in Turkey: The imprisonment of artist Zehra Dogan

[ioannis76]

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/pa...artwork-902015

So, a young turkish artist is given 2 years and 10 months in prison, because she dared paint a picture based on an actual photograph:

https://thedailyinformer.net/wp-cont...3/IMG_6601.jpg

For this, she was found guilty of collaborating with "PKK terrorists".
Is this country fit to enter the EU, or have any other status other than isolation as a rogue state?

[mongrel]

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/pa...artwork-902015

So, a young turkish artist is given 2 years and 10 months in prison, because she dared paint a picture based on an actual photograph:

https://thedailyinformer.net/wp-cont...3/IMG_6601.jpg

For this, she was found guilty of collaborating with "PKK terrorists".
Is this country fit to enter the EU, or have any other status other than isolation as a rogue state?

Your very source says that she was convicted on terrorist offences. I wont comment on the merits of the conviction but any fool can see that the painting differs significantly from the photos, implying oppression by adding chains and so forth. Would you like to start again because this thread looks pointless, as presented.

[ioannis76]

Some facts on the jailed artist:

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/fa...a-dogan-905093

Some things that are taken for granted in the West, are not a given in North Korea or Turkey:
https://thefashionplatemag.com/2017/...-free-for-all/

[mongrel]

Some facts on the jailed artist:

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/fa...a-dogan-905093

Some things that are taken for granted in the West, are not a given in North Korea or Turkey:
https://thefashionplatemag.com/2017/...-free-for-all/

Still haven't demonstrated that the painting is an exact copy of the photo. Only someone on hallucinogenic drugs would agree with that. I suppose there is the question of whether expressing sympathy with a terrorist group is a crime requiring a long sentence, but at the moment the OP looks like a cheap anti-Turkish rant.

[ioannis76]

Turkey reigning supreme in imprisoned artists and journalists:

http://voiceproject.org/campaign/imprisoned-artists/

It's really funny that the whole turkish state seems to be afraid of one girl with paintbrushes.

[dogukan]

I suppose there is the question of whether expressing sympathy with a terrorist group is a crime requiring a long sentence, but at the moment the OP looks like a cheap anti-Turkish rant.

This is not "cheap" to thousands of jailed activists over trivial reasons where no independent and fair juidicary exists, people that are jailed for years without any solid reason or evidence, tens maybe hundreds of thousands of people who's lives were ruined because they were "terrorist sympathizers" and overal millions of HDP supporters who went through the trauma of state literally smashing through them as the world watched and the "free west" still went on about its daily business with Turkey as if nothing wrong is going on.

[Infidel144]

Still haven't demonstrated that the painting is an exact copy of the photo.

Why would he need to demonstrate "that the painting is an exact copy of the photo"?

[mongrel]

Why would he need to demonstrate "that the painting is an exact copy of the photo"?

Because it is self-evident why the Turkish authorities,who aren't exactly a forgiving regime, treated her as a terrorist sympathizer, as opposed to someone merely recording the event. I refer anyone who says otherwise to Specsavers.

This is not "cheap" to thousands of jailed activists over trivial reasons where no independent and fair juidicary exists, people that are jailed for years without any solid reason or evidence, tens maybe hundreds of thousands of people who's lives were ruined because they were "terrorist sympathizers" and overal millions of HDP supporters who went through the trauma of state literally smashing through them as the world watched and the "free west" still went on about its daily business with Turkey as if nothing wrong is going on.

Fair comment, but the OP is a poor example. The UK equivalent would probably be an IRA or UVF mural, which , in themselves don't warrant incarceration, but for the reasons cited, one can reasonably assume that would not be the case in Turkey.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Hmmmm, well, this is not very different than whistleblowers getting chased in the west.

Even if they commit a "crime" by exposing government crimes.

Doesn't make it right though.

[Infidel144]

Because it is self-evident why the Turkish authorities,who aren't exactly a forgiving regime, treated her as a terrorist sympathizer, as opposed to someone merely recording the event. I refer anyone who says otherwise to Specsavers.

You have noted that the painting differs from the photo and complained that ioannis has not demonstrated it to be an exact copyi, again why would he need to do so?

[ioannis76]

It wouldn't need to be accurate, and I believe that he knows it. Art is about interpreting reality. She saw a photograph, in fact, posted by the turkish authorities, who seem to be proud of the barbarism of burning down people's homes, so much so that they would put turkish flags on the ruins, and she interpreted the armored personnel carriers as "living" creatures of destruction.
Only in a barbarous country would a person be jailed over a painting. Only in a barbarous country would painting be linked to "terrorism". But it is interesting to notice that islamofascism and western leftism always cover each other's ass.

[mongrel]

You have noted that the painting differs from the photo and complained that ioannis has not demonstrated it to be an exact copyi, again why would he need to do so?

Do you know anything about artistic expression?

Ioannis now seems to have given the proper answer.

It wouldn't need to be accurate, and I believe that he knows it. Art is about interpreting reality. She saw a photograph, in fact, posted by the turkish authorities, who seem to be proud of the barbarism of burning down people's homes, so much so that they would put turkish flags on the ruins, and she interpreted the armored personnel carriers as "living" creatures of destruction.
Only in a barbarous country would a person be jailed over a painting. Only in a barbarous country would painting be linked to "terrorism". But it is interesting to notice that islamofascism and western leftism always cover each other's ass.

At last a proper explanation. That would be supporting or glorifying terrorism then, which is a crime in the West.

Israel also tears down the homes of suspected terrorists, so not unique. A pretty weak OP if you ask me, slogans can't cover that.

[Hmmm]

At last a proper explanation. That would be supporting or glorifying terrorism then, which is a crime in the West.

False on both counts. First of all there's no uniform Western penal code so there's no such thing as a "crime in the West". It may be a crime in some Western countries. If your backwards ass country outlaws art which decries violence, kindly make it clear that it applies only to your country. Mine doesn't, and we're Western.

Second, how on Earth is decrying the methods of the Turkish state equivalent to supporting or glorifying terrorism? Is criticism against Israel's behaviour toward the Palestinians also "supporting or glorifying terrorism"? Did the ECourtHR "support or glorify terrorism" when they criticised Russia's handling of the Beslan siege? What you're asserting is utterly absurd. You know as well as anyone else that anywhere "in the West" or in fact in any civilized country she wouldn't be prosecuted for this. These posts of yours are utterly clownish.

[dogukan]

At last a proper explanation. That would be supporting or glorifying terrorism then, which is a crime in the West.

Israel also tears down the homes of suspected terrorists, so not unique. A pretty weak OP if you ask me, slogans can't cover that.

Nobody is glorifying terrorism here. The only terror here is the Turkish state's destruction of these towns. Depicting that does not glorify "terrorism".
Israel gets its share of criticism.

[Nebaki]

Nobody is glorifying terrorism here. The only terror here is the Turkish state's destruction of these towns. Depicting that does not glorify "terrorism".
Israel gets its share of criticism.

Most of these small "towns" was close or on the turkish-syrian Border while some terrorists digged some trenches inside these towns and declearing a place inside the Turkish Border as Independent from the Turkish State.

BTW it´s not Zehra which is most obviously - it´s called "Zehré" which clarifies many questions here.

[dogukan]

Most of these small "towns" was close or on the turkish-syrian Border while some terrorists digged some trenches inside these towns and declearing a place inside the Turkish Border as Independent from the Turkish State.

BTW it´s not Zehra which is most obviously - it´s called "Zehré" which clarifies many questions here.

What does it clarify?


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

[Nebaki]

What does it clarify?

Before Erdogan got elected many groups in Turkey like the Leftists was under repression due to the fact they don´t Respect the Structure of the Turkish State and always challenged it, most of thems ethnics are Kurdish but there also Turkish ones.

Now the Turkish State is facing again those ghosts of the past, i will not wonder if these Woman has a link to the DHKP-C which is even more Dangerous to the Turkish State then the PKK/YPG or whatever they call themselve now.

[Iskar]

Re-opened after clean-up. Watch it, or this will be closed for good. Neither obvious ToS violations nor needlessly inflammatory baits will be tolerated.

[ioannis76]

Now the Turkish State is facing again those ghosts of the past, i will not wonder if these Woman has a link to the DHKP-C which is even more Dangerous to the Turkish State then the PKK/YPG or whatever they call themselve now.

So, in your opinion it is acceptable to give someone 3 years in prison just on the SUSPICION that someone is in league with a terrorist (or "terrorist") organisation, WITHOUT ANY PROOF whatsoever. Very interesting.
Meanwhile, I did some digging:
https://zehradogan.net/

According to what I read here, Dogan was accused of taking the photograph herself (which is not true to begin with) and "adding the flags on the destroyed buildings herself", which is also not true. Anyone can see that the flags were there in the photograph, and even the video that you posted shows a huge flag on a destroyed building (my guess is that it's the building in front of the Otokar Kobra vehicle on the left of the picture):




The second accusation is this:

“Zehra Doğan published a news story on 22 December, 2015 from Nusaybin, where there were intense attacks. [This story] included the call of 10-year-old old Elif Akboğa to all children:

We are hearing gun fires right now. When the fires intensify we run to our homes. When the tanks go away we take to the street and make noise for protest. I think we are right. I know that our voices will be heard one day.’

This publication tries to justify the PKK terrorist organization’s barricade and trench policy by showing that it is a legitimate resistance.”

A 10 year old child is propagating in favour of PKK, then. These are the "terrorists" of the turkish state? A young woman and a 10 year old child.

Of course the accusations of the court are BEYOND ridiculous. The actual reason for the conviction, is obviously the inability of the turkish state to accept ANY voice of opposition to its handiwork (the ruined villages and the lives destroyed therein).

[Admiral Piett]

No such laws against 'supporting terrorism' exist in the US. The only serious criminal offense that exists here is if you provide material or financial support to them. Someone that makes pro-terrorist literature or art is not going to get arrested for a crime. Despite the IRA being designated a terrorist organization, there was many notable examples of support for them in many media formats.

So the rebuttals to this so far haven't had much merit. Although some can try and justify this from a legal lense that such things are illegal in Turkey, the fact that it is illegal in the first place is the issue. And the Turkish government should rightly be condemned for it and the many cases of political imprisonment which are by definition human rights violations.