Turkey provokes christianity by reading the Quaran in Agia Sofia

[ioannis76]

http://en.protothema.gr/turkey-provo...-sophia-video/

So, despite the fact that Agia Sofia is designated as a world heritage site, Turkey attempts to make it a mosque, defying UNESCO and provoking the Christians worldwide (Agia Sofia is originally a Greek Orthodox temple), by making it a mosque.
This act of barbarism demonstrates that Turkey is fast turning into an Islamic republic, with no concern for culture or tolerance for non-muslim religions.

The issue is also presented in RT:

https://www.rt.com/news/345782-koran...sophia-greece/

It is interesting to note a turkish MP's response to that:

“Since the United States are siding with the PKK [Kurdistan Workers' Party], and Germany has clung to the [Armenian] genocide lie, friendship has shifted. It’s our turn – [Hagia] Sopia should be open for worship.”

It is a ridiculous answer, since Agia Sofia was built by a Greek Orthodox culture, which has NOTHING to do with either the US or Germany. Furthermore it's even more ridiculous, as it claims to be an act of "retaliation" by Turkey.

What should Europe's answer be? Perhaps something along the lines of "we are Christian nations, so no mosques in Europe", I assume.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Well Erdogan asked to visit Greece a few days ago, so I guess we should be expecting surprise mass visits from the Turkish airforce as per usual.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2017...-visit-greece/

[Mithradates]

They WILL turn it into a mosque, this is Turkey today.

Turkish schools to stop teaching evolution, official says

Board of education chairman says subject is debatable, controversial and too complicated for students

Not some random official, its the ing Board of education chairman.

Goodbye secularism, the Sultan doesnt need educated citizens, he needs dumb subjects and more islamism.

[Hazzard]

If they want to read the Quran, can we also have the Bible and some work from Christoper Hitchens?

[PointOfViewGun]

Turkey provokes Christianity? Interesting title... How is it barbaric to recite Quran in Hagia Sophia though? What ioannis76 fails to mention is that Haghia Sophia was the imperial mosque between, for almost 500 years, before it was converted to a museum. From time to time, Quran is read from and in the building for special days. Reading of Quran happened last year as well. Also, there is also a prayer room inside the building for both Christians and Muslims.

[ioannis76]

What ioannis76 fails to mention is that Haghia Sophia was the imperial mosque between, for almost 500 years

And it was a Christian temple for approximately 900 years before that, the vast majority of the time Orthodox Greek. How about respecting the building for the purpose it was created and the culture/religion that created in and allow it to be used as a Church?
Turks demand mosques in Greece and all over Europe. How about giving what they demand and building or restoring (because there are already plenty of churches in Turkey, the problem is that they are neither restored, nor maintained, nor respected)?

But let's keep it secular.
The fact that Turkey takes a UNESCO-designated building and converts it for her own use, or as a "bargaining chip", or as a means to increase Erdo's popularity among conservative muslims and/or ultranationalists is quite barbaric.
Of course, such actions will further isolate Turkey, even from Russia, which seems to be Turkey's only ally at the moment (although I personally believe that Putin is trying to make Erdogan become more and more dependent on Russia, in order to make Turkey collapse all the more heavily when he so chooses.

[PointOfViewGun]

And it was a Christian temple for approximately 900 years before that, the vast majority of the time Orthodox Greek. How about respecting the building for the purpose it was created and the culture/religion that created in and allow it to be used as a Church?
Turks demand mosques in Greece and all over Europe. How about giving what they demand and building or restoring (because there are already plenty of churches in Turkey, the problem is that they are neither restored, nor maintained, nor respected)?

But let's keep it secular.
The fact that Turkey takes a UNESCO-designated building and converts it for her own use, or as a "bargaining chip", or as a means to increase Erdo's popularity among conservative muslims and/or ultranationalists is quite barbaric.
Of course, such actions will further isolate Turkey, even from Russia, which seems to be Turkey's only ally at the moment (although I personally believe that Putin is trying to make Erdogan become more and more dependent on Russia, in order to make Turkey collapse all the more heavily when he so chooses.

So, you're not gonna explain what's barbaric about reading Quran in Hagia Sophia? Is it sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism? Now you say it's barbaric to convert a building (which isn't converted in reality) for political purposes. Seems like you're still using the word "sensationalism" for the sake of sensationalism.

The building also has a Muslim heritage. You want to respect its Christian heritage while completely disregarding its Muslim heritage. Maybe you'd call that barbaric too... The Hagia Sophia building of today still exists thanks to the additions an Ottoman architect Sinan made to the support structure against earthquakes during the 16th century. If you wanted to only respect its initial state you'd have to basically demolish it.

Muslims of Athens, numbering around half a million, demand a mosque in their city because they don't have one. There haven't been one since 1883. Meanwhile, there are dozens of churches in İstanbul of varying denominations. These churches are quite well maintained and respected. Otherwise they wouldn't exist or be able to provide service.

[Kyriakos]

Ludicrous and stupid. Maybe Turkey and Erdo (and fans) should just be happy they still have all that they stole, including the Hagia Sophia. How would anyone bask in stealing is beyond saner mentalities
Anyway, Erdo was the one who thought that Diogenes Romanos was holding a lamp looking for people (that was Diogenes the cynic ) so it is not like we don't know what kind of uneducated cretin Erdogan is.

[ioannis76]

So, you're not gonna explain what's barbaric about reading Quran in Hagia Sophia? Is it sensationalism for the sake of sensationalism? Now you say it's barbaric to convert a building (which isn't converted in reality) for political purposes. Seems like you're still using the word "sensationalism" for the sake of sensationalism.

If you don't want to understand something, nobody can make you understand it. Even though I explained it quite well, you still refuse to acknowledge this.

The building also has a Muslim heritage. You want to respect its Christian heritage while completely disregarding its Muslim heritage. Maybe you'd call that barbaric too... The Hagia Sophia building of today still exists thanks to the additions an Ottoman architect Sinan made to the support structure against earthquakes during the 16th century. If you wanted to only respect its initial state you'd have to basically demolish it.

You spoke about the 500 year "muslim heritage". If you want to compare time periods, then here is the 900 year Christian heritage (the majority as an orthodox christian church).

Muslims of Athens, numbering around half a million, demand a mosque in their city because they don't have one.

It is not the business of the Greek state or any european state to cater to the needs of individuals (invaders, basically) who came to the country illegally.

Meanwhile, there are dozens of churches in İstanbul of varying denominations. These churches are quite well maintained and respected. Otherwise they wouldn't exist or be able to provide service.

Dozens, really? I count only 10, and most are either museums or converted to mosques.

https://www.google.gr/search?q=%CE%B...E,lf:1,lf_ui:1

[mongrel]

People reading a book in their own property in their own country, the problem is what exactly?

[PointOfViewGun]

If you don't want to understand something, nobody can make you understand it. Even though I explained it quite well, you still refuse to acknowledge this.

You haven't even attempted to provide an explanation on this matter.

It is not the business of the Greek state or any european state to cater to the needs of individuals (invaders, basically) who came to the country illegally.

Are you claiming that all the Muslims living in Athens are illegal immigrants?

Dozens, really? I count only 10, and most are either museums or converted to mosques.

For the Armenian Orthodoxy alone there are 28 active churches in İstanbul. I was wrong though. It's not dozens. It's over 200.

[ioannis76]

There has been ample answer. I am responsible for what I say, not for what some people understand.

US State Department urges Turkey to respect historic significance of Hagia Sofia

http://www.ekathimerini.com/219516/a...of-hagia-sofia

[PointOfViewGun]

There has been ample answer. I am responsible for what I say, not for what some people understand.

Please quote yourself where you supposedly explained it.

[ioannis76]

Now you are trying to say that the time span is unimportant?

Are you claiming that all the Muslims living in Athens are illegal immigrants?

The vast majority are. And there is a difference between converting an orthodox church, built by the original and legal inhabitants of the City, to a mosque, and actually erecting a mosque for invaders (that's the correct term for individuals who illegally and en masse enter a country).

[alhoon]

Let's keep the discussion a bit friendlier. ~ alhoon

[Tureuki]

-Aya Sofya sensitivity from both sides is stupid. There is no logical reason for it to be turned back into a mosque. There are more than enough mosques in Istanbul.

-It was turned into a museum by the Turkish goverment. Not by unesco or something. We can turn it into a buddhist temple if we want. None of your business. As the song says "Its nobody's business but the Turks".

-This isnt a case of discrimination or disrespect againts Christians. This is simply something that Islamo nationalist has turned into a matter of pride that takes historical roots. Thats why they whine about Hagia Sophia and not tens of other active churches and synagogues in Istanbul.

I never understand why would someone still whine about something that happened almost 600 years ago. How many more centuries you need to stop crying?

[ioannis76]

We can turn it into a buddhist temple if we want. None of your business. As the song says "Its nobody's business but the Turks".

and in the next sentence:

This isnt a case of discrimination or disrespect againts Christians.

Nooo, not at all. How about Greeks turn some mosques into warehouses or watchtowers. Would this not be an insult to muslims?

There is no logical reason for it to be turned back into a mosque. There are more than enough mosques in Istanbul.

We agree on one thing, it seems. And this decision has nothing to do with logic. A turkish MP "justified" it:

“Since the United States are siding with the PKK [Kurdistan Workers' Party], and Germany has clung to the [Armenian] genocide lie, friendship has shifted. It’s our turn – [Hagia] Sopia should be open for worship.”

It's not logic, it's just Erdogan lashing out. Sometimes I wonder if this guy is in his right mind, but the more he acts like that, the more he harms Turkey.

[saxdude]

And it was a Christian temple for approximately 900 years before that, the vast majority of the time Orthodox Greek. How about respecting the building for the purpose it was created and the culture/religion that created in and allow it to be used as a Church?
Turks demand mosques in Greece and all over Europe. How about giving what they demand and building or restoring (because there are already plenty of churches in Turkey, the problem is that they are neither restored, nor maintained, nor respected)?

But let's keep it secular.

Keep it secular, because a christian about another culture apropriating or destroying it's temples is freakin hilarious, and should perhaps shut up about it less he sound like a complete hypocrite.

Nooo, not at all. How about Greeks turn some mosques into warehouses or watchtowers. Would this not be an insult to muslims?

Man, you must really hate the spaniards then.

[ioannis76]

Keep it secular, because a christian about another culture apropriating or destroying it's temples is freakin hilarious, and should perhaps shut up about it less he sound like a complete hypocrite.


Man, you must really hate the spaniards then.

Your ignorance regarding the Byzantine Empire as well as the Greek Orthodox church is monumental. The links you provided are completely irrelevant to anything related to the Orthodox church. It is quite RIDICULOUS to claim that the Orthodox should feel guilty or "be made to pay" or "apologize" for stuff conducted by another church. In fact, Greek Orthodox churches have been desecrated by both the Crusaders (1204, first capture of Constantinople by the Crusaders), and of course the muslims, who routinely plastered over the depictions of Christ, Mary and the Saints.
Images from Cyprus:
http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/defau...s/ekklisia.png

http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/defau...s/eklisia1.png

http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/defau.../eklisia-2.png

http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/defau...s/eklisia3.png

Use of a Greek Orthodox Church as a stable, in occupied Cyprus:

http://www.makeleio.gr/wp-content/up.../6-LEZANTA.jpg

I would strongly suggest that you get informed about an issue before launching a post that is a monument of ignorance, stupidity and white guilt, which certainly does not apply to a nation that was enslaved for 400 years.

Thank you.

[PointOfViewGun]

Now you are trying to say that the time span is unimportant?

Comparing 900 years with 500 to claim supremacy is not quite important.

The vast majority are. And there is a difference between converting an orthodox church, built by the original and legal inhabitants of the City, to a mosque, and actually erecting a mosque for invaders (that's the correct term for individuals who illegally and en masse enter a country).

Even if vast majority are illegal immigrants, which you're welcomed to provide actual data on, though I'm not holding my breath, that still leaves tens of thousands of Muslim citizens of Greece living in there without a mosque. It's certainly not building a mosque for invaders. These are just bigoted points you're making. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, Hagia Sophia was not converted to a mosque yet, and if it was it would not be converted from a church. To use "built by the original and legal inhabitants of the city" as a valid argument is just plain pathetic as well...