Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

[Levan]

I went full tryhard with resources. Here is more adequate version:


In Kutaissi province: Iron (grey circle) and gold (yellow circle).
In Tbilissi province: Wine (purple circle), gold (yellow circle), wool (blue circle).
In Ani province: Marble (white circle) and iron (grey circle).

[Lifthrasir]

Noted with thanks
However gold in Kulaissi and wool in Tbilissi might be slightly lower to keep them accessible

[MWY]

Soo Tadzreuli were the heaviest units, then Aznauri and then Monaspa?

Monaspa were basically levied units equipped by the king? Or were they actually paid/ like a standing army?

The thing is, if we implemented all those units from game start mounted and dismounted, the player will have A LOT of heavy units available with seemingly only small differences.

[Khevsur]

this is my paints. I'm painting only According to very best georgian military historian - Mamuka Tsurtsumia.

[Lifthrasir]

MWY is not saying that your models/sources are wrong but he's considering the gameplay. If KoG start with too many heavy units, it will be overpowered compare to the neighbouring factions.
We need to find the right balance

[Levan]

@MWY

-Soo Tadzreuli were the heaviest units, then Aznauri and then Monaspa?
-Yes.

-Monaspa were basically levied units equipped by the king? Or were they actually paid/ like a standing army?
-Monaspa were paid like standing army. They might not have been equipped by the king entirely. They were picked after proving themselves worthy.

We can implement many differences. For example, type of horse armor, mace or sword, etc. Also, we can make Tadzreuli very limited and hard to get. In Medieval Kingdoms mod differences between them are represented well.

P.S.
All these paintings and also many frescoes are provided by @Khevsur. He is helping me greatly and Ltd's Roster is mostly inspired by his suggestions and paintings. The thing is that he doesn't know English and sometimes that leads to misunderstanding from both sides.

@Lifth you can place resources where you manage. Many thanks to you, I didn't do anything.

[jurcek1987]

Ok so I'm back from holidays and can begin doing the units. Those drawings will be extremely helpful, expect some results this weekend

[Levan]

Ok so I'm back from holidays and can begin doing the units. Those drawings will be extremely helpful, expect some results this weekend

I am glad you are here. Don't forget to write for the datails! I will try to post about the rest more frequently.

[j.a.luna]

In my humble opinion i guess that for have a reference with ''standard european units'' and dont overpower georgian roster could be:
Monaspa Guard---bodyguard unit
Tadreuli---feudal knights
Aznauri---mix mounted sergeants and mailled knights
This with their dismounted version and maybe give them some second weapon as bow to monaspa(kipchak reference)
Georgian highlanders---maybe similar to gallogaich/saxon huskarl or macemen if they have sword and shield
Gtieli spearmen---spearmen militia
Metikvosne spearmen---sergeant spearmen
Svan archer---levy archer or archer militia
Metikvosne archer/crossbowmen---sergeant crossbowmen or archers
And also the rest of units as mercenary cumans archers or turkish units...

[Levan]

Relax guys, one extra heavy unit won't make big difference. But we could do this for balance:
1)Monaspa Guard - deleted (Tadzreuli should be bodyguard anyway)
2)Tadzreuli - only bodyguard on tier 1 and limited on tiers 2-3
3)Aznauri - Feudal Knights with horse armor/dismounted melee
4)Monaspa - Feudal knights/dismounted archers
5)Msakhureuli - Sergeants
The rest isn't worth to discuss yet, i guess i have to play the game a little bit and update things in tier-list.

[j.a.luna]

Ok so I'm back from holidays and can begin doing the units. Those drawings will be extremely helpful, expect some results this weekend

Great news jurcek! Really appreciated mate! We hope your news georgian units
@ levan ok about units, only i want make a ''comparison'' with european units for understand the role units and give them correct stats

[umbracatervae777]

Will Tadzreuli be a mounted exclusive unit or also include a dismounted version equipped with mace?



And i think Georgian Horse Archer and Naqivchaqari Cavalry can be 'altered' by borrow units from Cuman roster

[Lifthrasir]

Below, the Tbilissi province with the resources implemented:



As you can see, the wine resource is not very visible. Not sure there's much I can do except changing the texture of that resource model

Below, the Kutaissi province with the new resources and forests implemented:
1. Without roads:



2. With roads:



Once the roads are built, most of the forest is disappearing. I've tried many things to avoid that but I'm afraid that it will be something we need to accept.

Next step: Implement the resources in Ani province and change Kutaissi to large town. Note that it will probably appear with wooden walls. Nothing I can do for now as this is due to the strat map model but will see if I can find a trick
There's still a question remaining: should KoG starts with Ani province?

[Khevsur]

dariali gate


dariali pass. ivan aivazovsky picture




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonio_Fortress
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelasuri_Wall
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darial_Gorge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likhi_Range

[Lifthrasir]

Thanks Khevsur but unfortunately, we can not represent the Kelasuri wall, Giono castle and the Dariali gate because these would blockade these 3 passages on the map (bad for the gameplay on Medieval 2 engine, even if I've never seen an invasion by the AI from Kelasuri area in any game I've played).

Regarding Likhi range, it is on the map somehow but you need to zoom on that specific point. However, I can slightly change the map heights but I don't think it will make a huge difference.

Finally, the passage through the Greater Caucasus in East of the Dariali one has been suggested by Levan because I want to keep another one in Caucasus for the gameplay again. Note that originally, it was in North of Kutaissi. As specified, that area was well guarded by one of the Georgian vassal. In game, I don't think that it will be used often by the AI. So, from my opinion, it should be fine .
If you disagree with that passage, you should talk to Levan (you're both Georgian and that should be easier that way ).

[Khevsur]

Red is Old Military Roads. In the north other roads is make with Modern technology

[Lifthrasir]

I got it, no worries
I'm just not sure that the result will be as espected due to the mapping limitations.

[Levan]

@Lifth don't change Likhi Pass, it is acceptable. The main thing Khevsur wants to change is the eastern pass on Caucasus because it was never used by armies and was closed for raiding tribes by Mtiels. So, if you think that it won't hurt gameplay much then close it with high mountains.

[Khevsur]

north eastern caucasus is not road, only Is Narrow trail. 6 months Blocked from snows .


Similar to that




I want this type forest in West georgia

[Lifthrasir]

Ok, noted for Likhi pass and the eastern one on Greater Caucasus. I'll close that one.

Regarding forest, I can't do that on SSHIP map due to the lack of space between the mountains and the rivers. The result would be to not have any passage at all. I can try to put some more thick forest just beside the mountains but that's all I can do.