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Thread: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

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    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    So, it's the whole world against Trump. The European Union and China released a joint statement,
    The EU and China consider climate action and the clean energy transition an imperative more important than ever,
    ...and Russia backs the Paris agreement on climate change

    Lastly, but not less important, The US rebelled,
    Trump latest: Live updates on the Paris decision - CNNPolitics.com

    50 mayors pledge to uphold Paris agreement on their own


    They published an open letter saying they will "continue to lead" and work toward renewable energy and efficiency.
    Here are some of the city mayors who signed the letter:
    · Los Angeles: Mayor Eric Garcetti
    · Boston: Mayor Martin J Walsh
    · New York City: Mayor Bill de Blasio
    · Houston: Mayor Sylvester Turner
    · Little Rock, Arkansas: Mayor Mark Stodola
    · Salt Lake City: Mayor Jackie Biskupski
    and more.
    ----
    Trump said,
    I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris
    Bill Peduto,
    As the Mayor of Pittsburgh, I can assure you that we will follow the guidelines of the Paris Agreement for our people, our economy & future.
    What a shame. Yet, if I'm not wrong, the US will leave the Paris Agreement on Nov 4, 2020. And the election day is....Nov 3.

    So, it's just a symbolic act? please discuss.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    What's even more embarrassing is he did this without consulting a single science advisor. And all so the pill-popping bums in the Rust Belt can work in a dying industry for just a bit longer. At best this will just kick the can for a stretch before coal becomes completely obsolete.

    I think I'm actually embarrassed to be an American today.

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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    The poor coal miners though Iron
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    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Trump doesn't know what he is doing - Bannon is the man behind the scene,How Steve Bannon's whiteboard explains Donald Trump's climate
    ...Trump waffled somewhat over the intervening months as the influence of people like his daughter, Ivanka, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson -- both of whom support the US staying in the Paris agreement -- was felt.

    Bannon has long been a leading voice on the other side, insisting that Trump made a promise to his base during the campaign and should keep it.

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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    Basileos Leandros I's Avatar Writing is an art
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    They can't get out of the agreement until 2020. It's binding - you get out, you break international law.
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    According to Trump:
    "Fake news weather channel"

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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Drumpf is orange clown baby. He's suffering from a neurological disorder, some say it's caused by syphilis, which is why his wife Milania has already signed divorce papers.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    So, while everyone here is being all dramatic I would like to point out how the Paris Agreement was seen as a ''huge disappointment'' by environmentalist last year.
    The Paris Climate Change Agreement Is a Huge Disappointment

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel...b_8798614.html
    Paris climate change deal too weak to help poor, critics warn

    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...xfam-actionaid

    Climate agreement falls short of a fair deal - but Paris is only the beginning

    http://www.actionaid.org/news/climate-agreement-falls-short-fair-deal-paris-only-beginning

    Paris COP21 Climate Agreement is Bound to Nothing: What is the Solution?

    http://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/14/01/2016/paris-cop21-climate-agreement-bound-nothing-what-solution

    Draft Paris agreement disappoints civil society

    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-and-environment/draftparisagreement-disappoints-civil-society/article7976311.ece

    Why The Paris Climate Agreement Can't Save The Planet

    http://www.popsci.com/paris-climate-agreement
    Four things to ensure Paris climate agreement more than lip service

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a6780571.html

    I could go on but you get the idea.

    So, why all the drama?

    I think it has little to do with the environment and a lot more about politics. The G7 saw massive disagreements, specifically on trade. Merkel in the past days had made significant declarations hinting it, Trump responded with a signal: ''don't think we can't withdraw from international treaties if they go against our interest, because we will, and this is just an example''.

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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Well let's not get too excited. This agw scam is too popular with governments to go away easily. So it ain't over till it's over. Nonetheless, this is very good to hear. Did you all see Cenk flipping out? I had no idea leftist tears could be so delicious.



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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    The Pentagon knows that any form of climate change escalates the chances for armed conflict, so holding it off as long as possible is a priority.

    More pragmatically, it's a chance to become a world leader in this particular technology field.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Finally a GREAT decision by Donald Trump! .. I'm on Trump's rollercoaster and .. I'm having a lot of fun!

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    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basileos Leandros I View Post
    They can't get out of the agreement until 2020. It's binding - you get out, you break international law.
    What happens if a hyperpower breaks international law? Are we going to have to fly the European army over here to tell us we're bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by IronBrig4 View Post
    What's even more embarrassing is he did this without consulting a single science advisor. And all so the pill-popping bums in the Rust Belt can work in a dying industry for just a bit longer. At best this will just kick the can for a stretch before coal becomes completely obsolete.

    I think I'm actually embarrassed to be an American today.
    Ohhh stop with the faux outrage. Did you even know what was in the Climate agreement before this past week?

    All it is is an economic development bill for 1st world companies entering 3rd world markets to the tune of 100bn USD. And it's a "joint" spending plan, which means these days given Europe's track record the vast brunt of the bill will be footed by the US. it.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; June 02, 2017 at 03:05 AM. Reason: Consecutive posts merged.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    I think it has little to do with the environment and a lot more about politics. The G7 saw massive disagreements, specifically on trade. Merkel in the past days had made significant declarations hinting it, Trump responded with a signal: ''don't think we can't withdraw from international treaties if they go against our interest, because we will, and this is just an example''.
    No, it is about the environment.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    Did you even know what was in the Climate agreement before this past week?
    Yes, and it was a good thing.
    Last edited by The spartan; June 01, 2017 at 08:47 PM.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    No, it is about the environment.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Sooo, an agreement that 12 months ago was receiving negative reviews from environmentalists is now all of a sudden fundamental?
    This is another one of those things where coherence is not the priority, isn't it?
    And the comic is boring and unfunny.

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    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    The Climate Change brigade would have a deal more credibility in my eyes, if they were as focused on preserving and replanting the Planet's forest as they are in emissions. The schemes that are in place using sell carbon pollution credits are financially benefiting some people, but aren't stopping actual deforestation, despite the false claims that they are. They are providing funding to grow a few species of trees on cleared areas of virgin forest containing whole eco-systems.

    Deforestation and Its Extreme Effect on Global Warming
    From logging, agricultural production and other economic activities, deforestation adds more atmospheric CO2 than the sum total of cars and trucks on the world's roads
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...lobal-warming/

    "One way some tropical countries are reducing deforestation is through participation in the United Nations’ Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation (REDD) program. REDD essentially works to establish incentives for the people who care for the forest to manage it sustainably while still being able to benefit economically. Examples include using less land (and therefore cutting fewer trees) for activities such as coffee growing and meat and milk production. Participating nations can then accrue and sell carbon pollution credits when they can prove they have lowered deforestation below a baseline. The REDD program has channeled over $117 million in direct financial aid and educational support into national deforestation reduction efforts in 44 developing countries across Africa, Asia and Latin America since its 2008 inception.

    Brazil is among the countries embracing REDD among other efforts to reduce carbon emissions. Thanks to the program, Brazil has slowed deforestation within its borders by 40 percent since 2008 and is on track to achieve an 80 percent reduction by 2020. Environmentalists are optimistic that the initial success of REDD in Brazil bodes well for reducing deforestation in other parts of the tropics as well."
    Except statistics commonly show, this isn't happening. The Brazil government now acknowledges this, so they are busy replanting some cleared forest and getting paid for it. But replanting a few species of trees, does not in any way compensate for the huge loss caused by destroying the original forest.

    Brazil: deforestation in the Amazon increased 29% over last year
    30 November 2016 / Rhett A. Butler
    Deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon reaches an eight-year high.

    Deforestation in the world’s largest rainforest jumped 29 percent over last year, representing a sharp increase over the historically low deforestation rate seen just five years ago and the highest level recorded in the region since 2008, reports the Brazilian government.

    The numbers, released by Brazil’s National Space Research Institute INPE on Monday, show that 7,989 square kilometers of rainforest were destroyed between August 2015 and July 2016. The loss is equivalent to an area 135 times the size of Manhattan or the combined land mass of the American states of Connecticut and Delaware.

    The data, which is still preliminary, suggests that the annual rate of primary forest loss in the Brazilian Amazon has climbed 75 percent over its 2012 level, which was the lowest since annual record keeping began in 1988.

    Last year’s deforestation was concentrated in the states of Para (38 percent), Mato Grosso (19 percent), and Rondonia (17 percent), which account for much of the region’s cattle and soy production. Deforestation increased most sharply in Amazonas, which contains the largest area of primary rainforest in Brazil.
    Cleared areas are often used for cattle, and what do cows produce, methane! And what does methane do to the atmosphere?

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    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Yes, and it was a good thing.
    I would pay, handsomely, to see you interact in my world for a single day watching legislation and agreements built and then come back and tell me you had any idea what was just constructed. Much less why and what agreements like these actually do.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Sooo, an agreement that 12 months ago was receiving negative reviews from environmentalists is now all of a sudden fundamental?
    This is another one of those things where coherence is not the priority, isn't it?
    And the comic is boring and unfunny.
    What do you mean "negative reviews"? People saying it doesn't go far enough isn't a negative review. Scientists and climatologists clearly wanted the US to stick to the Paris Climate Accord because it was certainly better than nothing. Stop throwing your red herring around. It is a good thing for the US to participate in and the leader made a bad choice to want to leave (and generally think climate change is a "hoax").

    I'm not surprised you didn't get the comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    I would pay, handsomely, to see you interact in my world for a single day watching legislation and agreements built and then come back and tell me you had any idea what was just constructed. Much less why and what agreements like these actually do.
    Sorry, not really interested in your nihilistic views on government. Doesn't have much to do with the topic anyways; you are trying to make obscure defenses for a bad idea.
    Last edited by The spartan; June 01, 2017 at 09:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Sooo, an agreement that 12 months ago was receiving negative reviews from environmentalists is now all of a sudden fundamental?
    This is another one of those things where coherence is not the priority, isn't it?
    And the comic is boring and unfunny.
    Shaddup!!!! You must understand, it's ze consensus. DO you not agree vith ze consensus, for we have places for people zhat don't agree vith ze consensus.

    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    "Compliance with the terms of the Paris Accord and the onerous energy restrictions it has placed on the United States could cost America as much as 2.7 million lost jobs by 2025 according to the National Economic Research Associates. This includes 440,000 fewer manufacturing jobs -- not what we need -- believe me, this is not what we need -- including automobile jobs, and the further decimation of vital American industries on which countless communities rely. They rely for so much, and we would be giving them so little.

    According to this same study, by 2040, compliance with the commitments put into place by the previous administration would cut production for the following sectors: paper down 12 percent; cement down 23 percent; iron and steel down 38 percent; coal -- and I happen to love the coal miners -- down 86 percent; natural gas down 31 percent. The cost to the economy at this time would be close to $3 trillion in lost GDP and 6.5 million industrial jobs, while households would have $7,000 less income and, in many cases, much worse than that.
    Not only does this deal subject our citizens to harsh economic restrictions, it fails to live up to our environmental ideals. As someone who cares deeply about the environment, which I do, I cannot in good conscience support a deal that punishes the United States -- which is what it does -– the world’s leader in environmental protection, while imposing no meaningful obligations on the world’s leading polluters.

    For example, under the agreement, China will be able to increase these emissions by a staggering number of years -- 13. They can do whatever they want for 13 years. Not us. India makes its participation contingent on receiving billions and billions and billions of dollars in foreign aid from developed countries.

    ...

    China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants. So we can’t build the plants, but they can, according to this agreement. India will be allowed to double its coal production by 2020. Think of it: India can double their coal production. We’re supposed to get rid of ours. Even Europe is allowed to continue construction of coal plants.

    In short, the agreement doesn’t eliminate coal jobs, it just transfers those jobs out of America and the United States, and ships them to foreign countries.

    This agreement is less about the climate and more about other countries gaining a financial advantage over the United States.

    ...

    We have among the most abundant energy reserves on the planet, sufficient to lift millions of America’s poorest workers out of poverty. Yet, under this agreement, we are effectively putting these reserves under lock and key, taking away the great wealth of our nation -- it's great wealth, it's phenomenal wealth; not so long ago, we had no idea we had such wealth -- and leaving millions and millions of families trapped in poverty and joblessness.


    The agreement is a massive redistribution of United States wealth to other countries.

    ...

    Beyond the severe energy restrictions inflicted by the Paris Accord, it includes yet another scheme to redistribute wealth out of the United States through the so-called Green Climate Fund -- nice name -- which calls for developed countries to send $100 billion to developing countries all on top of America’s existing and massive foreign aid payments. So we’re going to be paying billions and billions and billions of dollars, and we’re already way ahead of anybody else. Many of the other countries haven’t spent anything, and many of them will never pay one dime.

    ...

    In 2015, the United Nation's departing top climate officials reportedly described the $100 billion per year as “peanuts,” and stated that "the $100 billion is the tail that wags the dog." In 2015, the Green Climate Fund’s executive director reportedly stated that estimated funding needed would increase to $450 billion per year after 2020. And nobody even knows where the money is going to. Nobody has been able to say, where is it going to?

    ...

    Even if the Paris Agreement were implemented in full, with total compliance from all nations, it is estimated it would only produce a two-tenths of one degree -- think of that; this much -- Celsius reduction in global temperature by the year 2100. Tiny, tiny amount. In fact, 14 days of carbon emissions from China alone would wipe out the gains from America -- and this is an incredible statistic -- would totally wipe out the gains from America's expected reductions in the year 2030, after we have had to spend billions and billions of dollars, lost jobs, closed factories, and suffered much higher energy costs for our businesses and for our homes.

    As the Wall Street Journal wrote this morning: “The reality is that withdrawing is in America’s economic interest and won’t matter much to the climate.”

    Statement by President Trump on Paris
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  20. #20
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Trump Climate Change: US rebelled against Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    "Compliance with the terms of the Paris Accord and the onerous energy restrictions it has placed on the United States could cost America as much as 2.7 million lost jobs by 2025 according to the National Economic Research Associates. This includes 440,000 fewer manufacturing jobs -- not what we need -- believe me, this is not what we need -- including automobile jobs, and the further decimation of vital American industries on which countless communities rely. They rely for so much, and we would be giving them so little.

    According to this same study, by 2040, compliance with the commitments put into place by the previous administration would cut production for the following sectors: paper down 12 percent; cement down 23 percent; iron and steel down 38 percent; coal -- and I happen to love the coal miners -- down 86 percent; natural gas down 31 percent. The cost to the economy at this time would be close to $3 trillion in lost GDP and 6.5 million industrial jobs, while households would have $7,000 less income and, in many cases, much worse than that.
    Not only does this deal subject our citizens to harsh economic restrictions, it fails to live up to our environmental ideals. As someone who cares deeply about the environment, which I do, I cannot in good conscience support a deal that punishes the United States -- which is what it does -– the world’s leader in environmental protection, while imposing no meaningful obligations on the world’s leading polluters.

    For example, under the agreement, China will be able to increase these emissions by a staggering number of years -- 13. They can do whatever they want for 13 years. Not us. India makes its participation contingent on receiving billions and billions and billions of dollars in foreign aid from developed countries.

    ...

    China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants. So we can’t build the plants, but they can, according to this agreement. India will be allowed to double its coal production by 2020. Think of it: India can double their coal production. We’re supposed to get rid of ours. Even Europe is allowed to continue construction of coal plants.

    In short, the agreement doesn’t eliminate coal jobs, it just transfers those jobs out of America and the United States, and ships them to foreign countries.

    This agreement is less about the climate and more about other countries gaining a financial advantage over the United States.

    ...

    We have among the most abundant energy reserves on the planet, sufficient to lift millions of America’s poorest workers out of poverty. Yet, under this agreement, we are effectively putting these reserves under lock and key, taking away the great wealth of our nation -- it's great wealth, it's phenomenal wealth; not so long ago, we had no idea we had such wealth -- and leaving millions and millions of families trapped in poverty and joblessness.


    The agreement is a massive redistribution of United States wealth to other countries.

    ...

    Beyond the severe energy restrictions inflicted by the Paris Accord, it includes yet another scheme to redistribute wealth out of the United States through the so-called Green Climate Fund -- nice name -- which calls for developed countries to send $100 billion to developing countries all on top of America’s existing and massive foreign aid payments. So we’re going to be paying billions and billions and billions of dollars, and we’re already way ahead of anybody else. Many of the other countries haven’t spent anything, and many of them will never pay one dime.

    ...

    In 2015, the United Nation's departing top climate officials reportedly described the $100 billion per year as “peanuts,” and stated that "the $100 billion is the tail that wags the dog." In 2015, the Green Climate Fund’s executive director reportedly stated that estimated funding needed would increase to $450 billion per year after 2020. And nobody even knows where the money is going to. Nobody has been able to say, where is it going to?

    ...

    Even if the Paris Agreement were implemented in full, with total compliance from all nations, it is estimated it would only produce a two-tenths of one degree -- think of that; this much -- Celsius reduction in global temperature by the year 2100. Tiny, tiny amount. In fact, 14 days of carbon emissions from China alone would wipe out the gains from America -- and this is an incredible statistic -- would totally wipe out the gains from America's expected reductions in the year 2030, after we have had to spend billions and billions of dollars, lost jobs, closed factories, and suffered much higher energy costs for our businesses and for our homes.

    As the Wall Street Journal wrote this morning: “The reality is that withdrawing is in America’s economic interest and won’t matter much to the climate.”

    Statement by President Trump on Paris
    If I'm understanding you correctly, it'd be better to give the 100bn that the US will have to pay, plus the lost salaries of the American jobs in $20 bills to European leaders to wipe their own ass?

    Just some back of the envelop math, by giving European leaders the money to wipe their ass, it qualifies as monetary easing without the feds having to raise interest rates and may indeed provide a larger economic benefit.
    Last edited by JP226; June 01, 2017 at 09:23 PM.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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