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Thread: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

  1. #81
    ImperatorMichael's Avatar Libertus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Burden of proof is on you, you are making the positive assertion.
    You're refuting it, so lets see what you got.

    Quote Originally Posted by pchalk View Post
    In general i would welcome the breakup of the 2 party system. I voted 3rd party in this past presidential election and while i didnt not expect anything close to a win i was disappointed to see how low the percentage was

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    Everybody talks about wanting to see the two-party system destroyed, but there is never enough support for ANY of the numerous 3rd party candidates to be able to do that. Just ask Ross Perot, Ralp Nader, Gary Johnson, and Jill Stein.

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    They're organizing, and there's going to be a backlash against the GOP and Trump, so I'd say their strategy is to get ahead of the mob and channel it to Teabag the Democratic primaries.

    Can it be done?

    Consider the fact the most unpopular nominee in American history is now occupying the Oval Office.
    Agreed
    Last edited by Tiberios; June 10, 2017 at 03:12 AM. Reason: Tripple post

  2. #82

    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperatorMichael View Post
    Privileged college kids....unfortunately, there aren't many minority kids who are "privileged" enough to be able to attend college. The system is rigged against them in that regard, which is truly unfair.
    That is true if they're Asian, otherwise it's literally rigged in their favor in most cases. Do you think making these sorts of claims helps Dems get elected?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperatorMichael View Post
    As someone in the Resistance... I would invite you to Tumblr
    Lol, you're laying on the clichés a little thick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #83
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperatorMichael View Post
    Everybody talks about wanting to see the two-party system destroyed, but there is never enough support for ANY of the numerous 3rd party candidates to be able to do that. Just ask Ross Perot, Ralp Nader, Gary Johnson, and Jill Stein.
    You are right. It is ashame. There is also a cultural/strategic aspect to it i believe. I know many who voted trump, not because they liked him but simply because the hated Hilary more. Instead of looking at other candidates there is the stigma that voting third party is a wasted vote. Strategically this can be true as third party candidates as you say never win enough support and also voting third party will not always have the desired effect of putting a lesser of 2 evils major candidate ahead.

    Anyway my vote will always be for a candidate I believe will do right. So if you havn't guessed by now I took the third party road.

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  4. #84
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    If we had ranked choice or runoff votes then we might see some support for 3rd party candidates. But without that a vote for a 3rd party is a wasted vote and most people know that.
    ttt
    Adopted son of Lord Sephiroth, Youngest sibling of Pent uP Rage, Prarara the Great, Nerwen Carnesîr, TB666 and, Boudicca. In the great Family of the Black Prince

  5. #85
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    If we had ranked choice or runoff votes then we might see some support for 3rd party candidates. But without that a vote for a 3rd party is a wasted vote and most people know that.
    I understand where this comes from and agree the system needs to be able to accomodate third parties for them to be effective. I am a pragmatic person when it comes to most things, especislly political issues. But when it comes to my vote I am an idealist. I just wont vote for someone I don't agree with or like. My vote needs to be earned. If there is no candidate who has done that, then I don't see the need to go out and vote.

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  6. #86

    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperatorMichael View Post
    You're refuting it, so lets see what you got.
    I don't think you understand how this works.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    The electorate's mood had changed in some ways, and remained the same in others.

    Bob Dole got nominated in ninety six due to seniority, and he came across as wooden; he became more human when he became the poster boy for artificial woodys.

    W was groomed for the two thousand run in order to inject more life into the process, but had proved he could run a state, and had powerful interests backing him.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  8. #88
    Harith's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperatorMichael View Post
    So you have nothing.
    Because there is nothing. There was no rigging. Just allegations like the current convenient 3 million illegal voters which do not exist and ironically most have been Trump voters.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Hillary Clinton claims she beat both Bernie and Trump in last years election

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperatorMichael View Post
    Privileged college kids....unfortunately, there aren't many minority kids who are "privileged" enough to be able to attend college. The system is rigged against them in that regard, which is truly unfair.
    Have you ever heard of Affirmative Action? Actually, the US is pretty much the only place in the civilized world where you are granted extra points on behalf of the colour of your skin. Which is completely arbitrary, as well as barbaric. If you're an American of European, Indian, or East Asian descent, you have to work extra hard for college admission. I can't believe you're unironically turning the privilege issue on its head.


    Now if you were referring to Occupy Wall Street, I may....may....see how you would consider them privileged. But the BLM movement is not entirely violent.
    But it's entirely Black Supremacist. They're using potentially legitimat grievances to push a racist agenda. Have you seen how they behaved at Bernie Sanders' campaign rally, or the Toronto (IIRC) gay pride event? They've even started doing their shtick in London, as if Britain and Europe somehow were a part of North America and its peculiar history. Completely inacceptable, as well as imbecilic. They're like the worst part of the alt right.
    "White allyship" my arse. Even in Islamist terror organizations, you can become a full member regardless of colour.


    Like any other grass-roots movement, including the "Tea Party" movement, there are a few extremists who take the right of protest to the next, very often illegal, level. And to your statement about the "lies and distortion about police violence", do you consider the brutal and fatal tasing of a 65yo man who didn't offer any resistance to police to be "distortion"? if you do, then you're even colder than I thought.
    That's one case. Check out the statistics. Black people in the USA (remember, context is important. We're not talking about Europe or Africa here) are not disproportionally targeted by police, particularly when compared to their share of violent crime (which is disproportionally high). That is not to say that police brutality, or incompetence, or corruption, doesn't exist, or that black people were never victims of those. Rather, people are distorting the picture.


    Nobody claimed the BLM movement spoke for all black Americans, but they do speak for those who have faced police violence or lost loved ones to it. Would you not want people to stand up for you if you were brutalized by the police for no other reason than possibly the color of your skin, even though you never provoked them in any way?
    See above.


    Also, the KKK isn't as much of a "joke" as you think they are, given that a former Grand Wizard actually endorsed Trump's presidential campaign and even urged other KKK members to throw their support behind him. To believe otherwise is just fooling yourself.
    What, all five members? Face it, these guys have no backing in society, or the media, or even abroad. Their own party (the Democrats) has disavowed them.


    So you don't mind if someone starts talking like a racist or an Islamophobe (or a homophobe) because you don't like the "politically correct" language of the past eight years?
    Define "racist" (actually, just try to understand the point I'm making here). Define "Islamophobe". "Islamophobe", by the way, is a smear word invented by Islamists who sought to deflect Western criticism of their own ideology, and paint critics as morally inferior. It's used to stigmatize and ostracize liberal people - including ex-Muslims - here in Europe. It's not very different from the N-word.
    Regarding politically correct language, that's not Obama's fault. It started at least in the early Nineties, and its roots go back to ideological movements of the Fifties.

    Free Speech is an important part of the US constitution and American culture, and sets your country apart from most other countries in the world, including my own. You should learn to appreciate it.


    No wonder Trump got the support he got. He provided license for people to literally speak their mind, even if what their mind said was racist or otherwise prejudicial.
    What's bad about people speaking their mind? Plenty of people have stupid opinions, nothing special about that.


    As for Dubya, he must not have been particularly smart if he tried to act like both a Christian and a cowboy because he sucked at both, as the victims of Hurricane Katrina or the families of Iraqis needlessly killed so we could take their oil attest.
    That's irrelevant to his success with American voters though. And is there any reliable source condemning his treatment of hurricane victims?


    I don't agree with your assessment of Fiorina, purely because as CEO of HP, she made decisions which almost completely ruined the company before she left (don't know if she left voluntarily or was fired, but considering her record, I'm betting it was the latter). You say she comported herself with dignity? The only time she showed ANY dignity at all during the presidential campaign was when she rebuked Trump over his remarks about her looks. That was her only bright moment in an otherwise laughable campaign in which she attacked Hillary while being attacked by her fellow Republican rivals (especially Trump). The fact she tried to attach her political hopes into a running-mate association with Ted Cruz (unlike Obama, an actual foreigner) pretty much put the last nail in her political coffin. She might very well run again in 2021, but she'll have to be even more outrageous than Trump if she's to have even a snowball's chance in Hades.
    Whatever. At least she and Cruz didn't push identity politics.

    I just hope that in 2020, both Trump and Hillary will be physically incapable of running for office.


    1)Why do you think they're investigating the suspected Russian interference? Considering that Flynn was forced to resign, Sessions to recuse himself (which he broke by helping Trump recommend a replacement for Comey, violating his recusal), and Comey was fired when he started the investigation, Trump must've been colluding with Russia, if not directly, then through his Foundation or his campaign-or both. Otherwise, why fire the FBI Director? If Trump is innocent as he claims to be, then he shouldn't be afraid of an inquiry being made.
    The point is, they're still investigating this.


    2) Normally, I would agree with you 100%. But after seeing on the news (not Faux News, either) and reading online some of the many disgusting actions taken by Trump supporters against people who protested Trump's rhetoric, agenda, and ideals...perhaps the insult isn't such an insult but a statement of truth. Don't even try to tell me that had it been Hillary supporters attacking protesters supporting Trump, you would not apply the same label. And while there were some incidents of such happenings in which the perpetrators could rightly be called deplorable, Hillary at least showed more dignity than Trump could ever dream of having by condemning such acts.
    There was violence on both sides. Trump rallies were blockaded and people attending them were harassed and intimidated.


    And keep in mind, she only lost by 80k votes which is not as huge a loss as you want to make it out to be.
    The point is, she lost to someone who is a total jackass. That in itself should tell you she was a bad candidate.


    Oh you'd LOVE a total war, wouldn't you?
    No, why?


    Get rid of all the "leftists" and "libtards" and make America safe for "real Americans" right? One problem with that...liberals are REAL Americans, too.
    As are so-called "deplorables".


    We have a different outlook, of course, but our goals are the same...a prosperous, safe, dominant America. Call it melodramatic and ridiculous if you want, but there was a time not that long ago when many "rightists" talked of marching on Washington and either arresting or overthrowing Barack Obama because they wrongly believed he would abolish the second amendment (or he was assuming too much power, or some other ridiculous claim).
    So you perceive that fears regarding one supposedly radical president were largely unfounded, and that he turned out to be relatively moderate. Why not apply the same perspective to other presidents?


    As for the comparison, I actually compare Trump to Hitler, not Berlusconi or Mussolini.
    That's even worse. Are you sure you're familiar with Hitler's biography, oeuvre, and record?


    The most scary thing they share is they both made the cover of Time Magazine as 'Man of the Year',
    Who didn't? They're in great company - Stalin, Merkel, etc. That just shows you that the editors of that section of Time Magazine are probably retards. Kind of like the Nobel Peace Prize committee.


    but they both also have a particular group of people they like(d) to persecute,
    Hitler vigorously persecuted not one, but several "groups" of society, even before he was elected to any office. Which by the way he detailed in advance in his pamphlet, just like Ayatollah Khomeini did after him.

    What group does Trump want to put in death camps? How many US citizens or residents has he had shot? Has the Trumpstaffel or the Kekstapo already raided your home and shot your political friends? I mean, come on.


    they both want(ed) a militarized country, and they both picked a group of sycophants to form their inner circles of power. I'll give Trump a year to start that Fourth Reich, considering the number of people who believe he's the closest thing to God.
    Except there is no Gleichschaltung of media and society. There are no death squads, no concerted efforts to deport, expropriate, or kill people based on their ethnicity or religion (I hope you realize immigration status is a very different thing).
    Granted, there are Totalitarian tendencies, but they come from both sides of the political aisle, in fact I'd say the anti-Trump movement is more radical.


    As someone in the Resistance, I am in opposition to Trump. I would invite you to Tumblr, to view the page of a good friend of mine who goes by the nickname Velius the Wanderer, but that might be too much liberal exposure for you to handle. Trump might get impeached, but I don't expect he'll leave willingly. In fact I expect that he will gather his supporters to defend him and that much desired (by you) total war could erupt very soon thereafter.

    But you just keep drinking what is being offered in that cup of kool-aid.
    Jaysus. Anyway, where I come from, "liberal" means "in favour of freedom". We don't call left-wing authoritarians "liberal", that's like calling the sky orange.

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