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Thread: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

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    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    The topic of names of the factions East and South has been in the spot ligth a few times lately, as Arabic names in vanilla and Mongol and what not in submods understandably can be immersion-breaking to folks, so here're alternative resources from DCI:LA, for any modders out there.

    The text-files, prepared for use in names.txt, are attached at end, and the offers are Sumerian, Akkadian and Hittite/Luwian.


    That said, the rest is my presentation of the content, for those who are concerned or interested, hehe;





    We only have one single word from Harad in the form of "mûmak", and a couple of Easterling names to go on. Tolkien however has a methodology, not surprising for a linguist.
    I refere to it as linguistic mapping, and encourage anyone interested to see Edward Vajdas lecture, at least from 6.45 to 12:46 https://youtu.be/5NKlr0vRX34?t=405

    A scholars reasonings, for the record
    This is not meant for a discussion about the textures, if you want to discuss lore apsects please raise it in the TGD-thread instead; but for those interested I none the less sketch out my reasonings leading to my definition of the so called lingustic mapping.

    - English is used by Tolkien to translate Westron, also known as the Common Speech, in Middle-earth. This means that many names in Tolkien's mythology actually are only anglicized translations. Easy examples are our dear Hobbits: Frodo Baggin's actual, in-world name is Maura Labingi, Peregrin Took is Razanur Tûk and Meriadoc Brandybuck is Kalimac Brandagamba.

    - Westron partly emereged from the older language of the Eotheod and their desendants, the Rohirrim. Tolkien therefore translated their tongue into Old English/Anglo-Saxons, with names like Eorl, Eomer or Theodén [while Theoden's name is Tûrac in Rohirrim's actual language].

    - The forefathers of the Eotheod in turn were the easter Northmen in Rhovanion, so Tolkien based their names on Gothic, with names like Vidugavia and Marhari. This he do as Gothic is an ancient Germanic language of the same family tree as Anglo-Saxon and English, thus creating the phontic impression of a timeline.

    - On their side, Dwarves have Old Norse names (Durin, Bombur, Thorin etc), another old Germanic language, which Tolkien describes the Dwarves got from the northern Northmen (cousins of the eastern Northmen).

    - First Age Easterlings are not related to the folks whoms languages are translated with Germanic languages in later Ages, yet their names resemble those.
    Perhaps fitting the "germanic barbarians"-mold we are accustomed to from Antiquity? Would fit the internal perception of time, with the high civilization of Beleriand mirroring the theme of late Antiquity.
    Brodda for example is Old Norse for 'spike/thorn', and Ulfang is a -f- away from being straight up 'wolf-catch' in Old Norse. Perhaps coinsidence, but I'm open-minded.

    - Third Age Easterlings have one named land, 'Khand' which I argues provides a simple eastern references to legendary Samarkand, if not further sites over into India.
    But more interesting is Variags. Which of course is a version of the name of the Vikings in Byzantium service. To an Englishman this make sense, Vikings also came individng form the east and the varangian reference enhance the sense of eastern civlization. And JRR did only write for an English audience - this we must not forget!
    We do however know that many Easterling tongues are related to Dwarves own language, that in turn is based on the Semitic language family.

    - The natives of Eriador and Dunland have a traditonal language unrelated to the Northmens or Dunedain. JRR uses Celtic to translate it (see Bree for example) - but again, their actual languages are not Celtic.


    Now, Tolkien's methodology makes the world sound right to an English ear (and apperently his written directions to translators as a rule did hit home, hehe).
    My conclusion is that we can find some guidelines helping us setting better rather than worse languages to use in our own "translations" of Middle-earth:
    - Real languages are used, outside of JJR's own creations
    - Old languages have pre-eminence
    - Consider the impression provided
    - Avoid known, immersion-brekaing names, such as of prominent historical individuals, or legendary persons (many Rohirrim names may come from Beowulf, but no character is named Beowulf, for example).

    So from all this follows...


    I have gathered three ancient languages: Sumerian (245 entries), Akkadian (137) and Hittite/Luwian (88).
    Mainly it are words, but in some cases names have been used.





    Sumerian I use for Haradrim. It is unrelated to any other known real language, making it fitting for languages on Westron's most distant boundries, that would be quite alien to the West.
    Sumerian did influence the other two languages historically, and this relationship between it and the two others offers to me a good representation of how in Middle-earth Southrons and Easterlings historically interacted with each other.
    Sumerian listed with translation
    Abbununnu [DARK DAY]
    Abgal [SAGE]
    Abu [OWL]
    Adaba [MUSICIAN]
    Agaduna [BEARDEDNESS]
    Agakar [CONQUEROR]
    Agarniĝin [OFFICIAL]
    Aagaus [SOLDIER]
    Agazi [LEADER]
    Agida [SPEAR]
    Agrig [STEWARD]
    Agrigmah [ADMINISTRATOR]
    Agud [OX]
    Alim [BISON]
    Andaĝal [EXALTED]
    Andimdim [CRAFTSMAN]
    Antaĝal [EXALTED]
    Anzil [ABOMINATION]
    Anzud [EAGLE]
    Arkab [BAT]
    Atah [HELPER]
    Atua [PRIEST]
    Atuku [POWERFUL]
    Aya [FATHER]
    Ayalum [STAG]
    Babaya [OLD MAN]
    Babbar [WHITE]
    Badara [DAGGER]
    Balgi [TURTLE]
    Banda [JUNIOR]
    Dalhamun [STORM]
    Damgar [MERCHANT]
    Dara [RED]
    Dikud [JUDGE]
    Dubĝal [SCRIBE]
    Duksium [SHIELD]
    Dumuĝir [CITIZEN]
    Dumusag [FIRST-BORN]
    Duri [MALE]
    Dusa [FRIEND]
    Emebala [TRANSLATOR]
    Emesiggugu [DENOUNCER]
    Engar [FARMER]
    Enkum [TREASURER]
    Ensik [RULER]
    Ensikgal [GOVERNOR]
    Era [LEADER]
    Ereš [WISE]
    Gababum [SHIELD]
    Gabaĝal [GUARD]
    Gabasugar [RIVAL]
    Gabgaz [MURDERER]
    Gabkar [THIEF]
    Gabkare [THIEF]
    Gagsisa [ARROW]
    Galanzu [WISE]
    Galdi [EXALTED]
    Gallagal [CHIEF POLICEMAN]
    Gamkur [INTRUDER]
    Ganagid [SURVEYOR]
    Ganbar [SOLDIER]
    Gardu [SOLDIER]
    Garradum [WARRIOR]
    Gida [SPEAR]
    Gudam [BULL]
    Gudgaz [BUTCHER]
    Guzal [SCOUNDREL, ROGUE]
    Hara [RUFFIAN]
    Hazanum [MAYOR]
    Hibiz [HEIR, RED]
    Hum [HONOR]
    Husma [KING]
    Huwawa [MONSTER]
    Ibira [MERCHANT]
    Igibarra [SCOUT]
    Igigal [WEAPON, WISE]
    Igar [ORACLE]
    Ilim [RADIANCE, DEADLY SILENCE]
    Imittu [SPEAR]
    Irhandi [SORCERER]
    Ishab [ROGUE]
    Kaa [FOX]
    Kababum [SHIELD]
    Kakpana [ARROW]
    Kal [RARE]
    Kalag [STRONG]
    Kamudgal [ADVOCATE]
    Kana [DARK]
    Kiggia [MESSENGER]
    Kiinimak [WITNESS]
    Kisibgal [SEAL BEARER]
    Kizurra [SHARP]
    Kugbabbar [SILVER]
    Kugdim [SMITH]
    Kugsig [GOLD]
    Kugtuku [RICH PERSON]
    Lirum [STRENGTH]
    Lubunanzea [INSTIGATOR]
    Luennug [GUARD]
    Luesgid [SURVEYOR]
    Lugal [KING]
    Lugidimak [NECROMANCER]
    Lugura [REAPER]
    Lugespu [WRESTLER]
    Lugiadudu [NIGHT-WATCHMAN]
    Luhuga [HIRELING]
    Luhulgal [EVILDOER]
    Luigidu [LEADER]
    Luinimgina [GUARANTOR]
    Lukinnatum [NEST-HUNTER]
    Lukur [STRANGER]
    Lukurunak [BREWER]
    Lulim [STAG]
    Lulullul [LIAR]
    Luma [BOATMAN]
    Lunigazig [MURDERER]
    Lunigtuku [RICH]
    Lusagaz [BRIGAND]
    Lusagbuluga [NECROMANCER]
    Mahdidi [EXALTED]
    Mahra [FOREMOST]
    Man [COMPANION]
    Mandum [SOLDIER]
    Marru [STORMWIND]
    Martu [WESTERNER]
    Massu [LEADER]
    Masmas [SORCERER]
    Massag [LEADER]
    Massugidgid [DIVINER]
    Mes [HERO]
    Mitum [WEAPON]
    Musgal [SERPENT]
    Muslahgal [SNAKE CHARMER]
    Nagah [BARBARIAN]
    Nam [LORD]
    Nambarag [ROYALTY]
    Namdumununa [~PRINCE]
    Namgal [GREATNESS]
    Namnita [MANHOOD]
    Namsita [RULER]
    Namsul [MANHOOD]
    Negal [MIGHTY]
    Nemur [LEOPARD]
    Nigbuna [TURTLE]
    Nigir [HERALD]
    Nigirgal [CHIEF HERALD]
    Nigtukutuku [RICH]
    Nigzid [RIGHTEOUSNESS]
    Nituku [PIOUS]
    Nukirik [GARDENER]
    Nun [PRINCE]
    Pakak [ARROWHEAD]
    Panadim [BOW MAKER]
    Pirig [LION]
    Pirigtur [LION]
    Rabianum [COMMANDER]
    Rabizigatum [MILITARY OFFICIAL]
    Ragaba [RIDER]
    Sabra [CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR]
    Sagaz [ROBBER]
    Sagapin [PLOWMAN]
    Sagar [COUNSELOR]
    Sagentar [SUPERVISOR]
    Saggul [LIGHTNING]
    Saggasimug [CHIEF SMITH]
    Sagiagal [CUP-BEARER]
    Sagkul [BOLT]
    Sagnita [MAN]
    Sakkanak [GENERAL]
    Santanak [GARDENER]
    Sedu [SPIRIT]
    Sestab [COMPANION]
    Sidim [BUILDER]
    Sidimgal [CHIEF BUILDER]
    Sidimmah [MASTER BUILDER]
    Silig [MIGHTY]
    Simuggal [CHIEF SMITH]
    Simul [STAG]
    Simus [BRILLIANCE]
    Sipad [SHEPHERD]
    Sublugal [SOLDIER]
    Sugalanzu [WISE]
    Sugargi [AVENGER]
    Sugi [SENIOR]
    Suh [CROWN]
    Sukur [LANCE]
    Surdu [FALCON]
    Surru [PRIEST]
    Susig [FLAYER]
    Tabus [COMPANION]
    Taskarin [KING]
    Tiru [COURTIER]
    Tu [LEADER]
    Tukul [WEAPON]
    Tukulsunir [A DIVINE EMBLEM]
    Tumudal [STORM WIND]
    Ubar [FOREIGNER]
    Ubri [LANCE]
    Ububul [LIGHTNING]
    Udnua [MOON]
    Udsag [LEADER]
    Uduutuwa [RAM]
    Uga [RAVEN]
    Ugula [OVERSEER]
    Ugur [SWORD]
    Ugdaga [NEIGHBOR]
    Ukur [BUTCHER]
    Ulumas [SOUTH WIND]
    Umbingiri [CLAW]
    Umbisag [SCRIBE]
    Umus [EXALTED]
    Ungal [RULER]
    Urbara [WOLF]
    Urgula [LION]
    Urmah [LION]
    Urnim [LION]
    Ursag [HERO]
    Ursagsim [SPARROW]
    Ursub [TIGER]
    Ursubkuda [WILD ANIMAL]
    Urud [COPPER]
    Urum [MALE]
    Usan [WHIP]
    Usandu [WISE]
    Usutuku [STRONG]
    Usum [SNAKE]
    Usumgal [DRAGON]
    Utuwa [STUD]
    Uzu [DIVINER]
    Zabar [BRONZE]
    Zagsa [RIVAL]
    Zamrutum [LANCE]
    Zena [SIEG WEAPON]
    Ziddu [RIGHTEOUS]
    Zubud [MACE]


    Misc:
    Baza [DWARF]
    Burgul [STONE-CUTTER]


    Akkadian I use, together with Hittite, for the Easterlings. Here they are separated however, for the users leasure.
    The reason is that since Khuzdul is based on Semitic language design and many Easterling tongues had taken from Khuzdul, this old East Semitic language fits very well as representation.
    Thematicly it also fits for warlike folks who had war-chariots, as it was the language of the conquering Assyrians.
    Akkadian listed with translation
    Adaru [DARK]
    Abarakku [STEWARD]
    Abaru [STRENGTH/STRONG/COMBATIVE/NOBLE]
    Agru [HIRELING]
    Aklu [OVERSEER]
    Amurru [WESTERNER]
    Anzu [EAGLE]
    Apkallu [SAGE]
    Aplu [HEIR, RED]
    Aqaru [RARE]
    Aribu [RAVEN]
    Ariktu [SPEAR]
    Asamsutu [STORM]
    Asaredu [LEADER]
    Asipu [SORCERER]
    Ayyalu [STAG]
    Azmaru [LANCE]
    Basmu [SNAKE]
    Babalu [LEADER]
    Baru [DIVINER]
    Bubbulu [MOON]
    Dann [STRENGTH/STRONG/COMBATIVE/NOBLE]
    Dumamu [WILD ANIMAL]
    Ebbu [BRONZE]
    Egirru [ORACLE]
    Ekkemu [THIEF]
    Emqu [WISE]
    Errebu [INTRUDER]
    Etlu [HERO]
    Gabagallu [GUARD]
    Gallu [POLICEMAN]
    Gamiru [STRENGTH/STRONG/COMBATIVE/NOBLE]
    Girru [LION]
    Gitmalu [SNAKE]
    Guzallu [SCOUNDREL, ROGUE]
    Habbatu [BRIGAND]
    Haitu [NIGHT-WATCHMAN]
    Hurasu [GOLD]
    Hutpu [BRONZE]
    Igigallu [POWERFUL]
    Ishappu [ROGUE]
    Issakku [RULER]
    Kababu [SHIELD]
    Kakku [WEAPON]
    Kalbanatu [SIEGE WEAPON]
    Kirimmu [STRENGTH/STRONG/COMBATIVE/NOBLE]
    Kamiru [STRENGTH/STRONG/COMBATIVE/NOBLE]
    Kanniku [SEAL BEARER]
    Kaspu [SILVER]
    Kubbu [STRONG]
    Kutimu [GOLD/SILVER SMITH]
    Labu [LION]
    Lemnu [EVILDOER]
    Lulimu [STAG]
    Mahiru [RIVAL]
    Mahru [FOREMOST]
    Maliku [COUNSELOR]
    Mandu [SOLDIER]
    Masaddu [SPEAR]
    Masmasu [SORCERER]
    Masrahtu [A DIVINE EMBLEM]
    Mehu [SOUTH WIND]
    Meku [WEAPON, WISE]
    Miru [BULL]
    Mittu [WEAPON]
    Muerru [LEADER]
    Mudu [WISE]
    Muqippu [GUARANTOR]
    Musgallu [SERPENT]
    Mushussu [SERPENT-DRAGON]
    Nablu [LIGHTNING]
    Nadu [PIOUS]
    Nagiru [HERALD]
    Nukaribbu [GARDENER]
    Nakru [STRANGER]
    Namru [BRONZE]
    Namsaru [SWORD]
    Nesu [LION]
    Nimru [LEOPARD]
    Nuwau [BARBARIAN]
    Puhalu [RAM]
    Paqidu [SUPERVISOR]
    Pattaru [MACE/DAGGER]
    Qardu [SOLDIER]
    Qarradu [HERO]
    Qinnazu [WHIP]
    Rabianu [COMMANDER]
    Rakibu [RIDER]
    Redu [SOLDIER]
    Reu [SHEPHERD]
    Rimu [WILD BULL]
    Rubu [PRINCE]
    Sabitu [BREWER]
    Sabbitu [SOLDIER]
    Saggasimug [CHIEF SMITH]
    Saggasu [ROBBER]
    Sagiagal [CUP-BEARER]
    Sagnita [MAN]
    Sagkul [BOLT]
    Sakkanak [GENERAL]
    Salummatu [RADIANCE, DEADLY SILENCE]
    Sangu [CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR]
    Saninu [RIVAL]
    Sankullu [LIGHTNING]
    Santanak [GARDENER]
    Saqu [EXALTED]
    Saqummatu [RADIANCE, DEADLY SILENCE]
    Sarratu [RULER]
    Sarru [KING]
    Sarrutu [ROYALTY]
    Saruru [BRILLIANCE]
    Sedu [SPIRIT]
    Selebu [FOX]
    Seleppu [TURTLE]
    Sestab [COMPANION]
    Sibaru [SPARROW]
    Sibu [SENIOR]
    Sidim [BUILDER]
    Sidimgal [CHIEF BUILDER]
    Sidimmah [MASTER BUILDER]
    Silig [MIGHTY]
    Siru [EXALTED]
    Sitnunu [STRENGTH/STRONG/COMBATIVE/NOBLE]
    Sukurru [LANCE]
    Susikkum [FLAYER]
    Tabihu [BUTCHER]
    Tamkaru [MERCHANT]
    Tappu [COMPANION]
    Tizqaru [EXALTED]
    Tuksu [SHIELD]
    Tupsarru [SCRIBE/SCHOLAR]
    Ubaru [FOREIGNER]
    Umasu [STRENGTH/STRONG/COMBATIVE/NOBLE]
    Urbara [WOLF]
    Urmahhu [LION]
    Usumgallu [DRAGON]
    Zikaru [MALE]




    Lastly Hittite/Luwian. The Hittites likewise conquered and fought in splendid war-chariots, but this is an indo-european language. Proper so, considering the, I argue, germanic name styles given to many First Age easterlings.
    Further, there is a specualtion that Black Speech was inspired by Hittite; entertaining that idea, that while not confirmed have clear phonetic points, it ought to been an interaction over the thousands of years, meaning the tongue of Mordor is not the same as those of Rhûn, but they can 'meet' in Hittite.
    Hittite/Luwian listed with translation
    Abi - father
    Abu - father
    Ammuna - H. name
    Anittas - H. name
    Ansekurra - chariot fighter
    Antiyant - adopted son/son-in-law
    Antuhsas - man
    Antuwahhas - human
    Arad - servant/vassal
    Armas - moon
    Astanu - sun
    Attas - father
    Azu - Doctor
    Belu - lord
    Be-li - lord
    Dankuis - black
    Dingirarad - servant of the god
    Dumu - son
    Dumulugal - prince
    Dumuegalon - son of the palace
    Erin - army/infantry
    En - lord
    Ensiskur - lord of the ritual
    Gal - Chief/great
    Ge - Dark
    Gestin - wine
    Gir - knife
    Guapinlal - (plow) ox
    Guskin - gold
    Haliyari - singer
    Halpasulupi - H. name
    Hantezziya - First/oldest
    Harki - White
    Haster - star
    Hauwa - named mountain
    Hinkan - plauge
    Hursag - named mountain
    Huwant - wind
    Huzziya - H. name
    Ibila - male heir
    Iluyanka - snake
    Isha - master
    Ispant - night
    Istanu - sun
    Kamisana - thunderbolt
    Kalmisana - thunderbolt
    Karas - army/troops
    Karawar - horn
    Kassmissa - a guard's cry or order of unclear meaning
    Kita - reciter
    Kubabbar - silver
    Kuruntas - H. name
    Lawasa - named mountain
    Lu - man
    Lugal - king
    Luulu - person
    Mametu - Oath
    Massanauzzi - servant of the god
    Mesedi - Bodyguard
    Mitas - red
    Mus - snake
    Nakki - heavy/important
    Nirgal - strength
    Nizu - thief
    Numun - seed, descendant
    Pahhur - fire
    Palwatalla - applauder
    Pesan - man
    Pithanas - H. name
    Sagdu - head, human, worker
    Salli - Big/great
    Sakuniya - spring
    Sanga - priest
    Saukur - spear
    Ses - brother
    Sugi - old
    Surkas - root
    Tankui - black
    Tarh - Conqueror
    Tarhhant - Conqueror
    Temu - messenger
    Tuhhui- smoke
    Tuhhuwais - smoke
    Tul - spring
    Udunita - ram
    Urbarra - wolf
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Ngugi; January 16, 2019 at 06:12 PM.

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  2. #2
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    sorry but I cannot give you rep for this but GREAT worrk
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Great work. Way better than current names.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Great work Ngugi !
    It's very nice as a reasoning and thanks for the list of names, they are going to be useful (and not just for Third Age : Total War ^^).

  5. #5
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Thanks guys, and you're welcome


    Quote Originally Posted by Deathshade View Post
    It's very nice as a reasoning and thanks for the list of names, they are going to be useful (and not just for Third Age : Total War ^^).
    That is true, since they're dead languages they could be applied in many settings, seeming convincing as they're actually real languages, but unlikley to threaten immersion for anyone. Not to speak about historical settings, haha
    Last edited by Ngugi; May 24, 2017 at 02:31 PM.

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Much thanks.

  7. #7
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Happy to

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Now if someone would have any ideas for some proper Dorwinion names, that'll complete my day

  9. #9
    Incredible Bulk's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Sorry maybe I missed it so how do I add these names to a sub-mod?

  10. #10
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    You didn't, it's meant as a modders resource, not to be implemented by the public, so there're no instructions.

    If you however want to add it manually, back up any files first, then do as follows;
    Copy paste the content from the attached files into names.txt in .../data/text
    You can put it at the bottom to save time, the alphabetic order is just for convenience. To maintain a degree of convenience you can put the symbol ¬ between the old and each new list pasted in (as seen at the top)
    Save.

    Then open descr_names.txt in the data-folder
    Find the faction(s) to give new names. To add to Rhun, for example, look up venice* and add the new names you want for them under "characters".
    This is a laborious work, but fastest is to copy all of a kind [say, Akkadian], paste it in at the end of the names before the "women" section begins (again, alphabetic order is just for convenience).
    Then remove the brackets. As the names inside the brackets and outside are identical, you can simply delete the brackets, so you goes from "{Adaru}Adaru" to only "Adaru". Looking at the pre-existing text, it should be quite self-evident how to look.
    Adjusting the lines with tab is optional.
    Save.

    Mind you, this implementation do not propose you delete or remove any pre-existing names. In order to do that you'll have to make further changes in descr_strat.txt and possibly scripts, or you face CTDs.
    To quote Withwnar in this regard, "Name changes are pain in the arse.", so I do not recommend you attempt that.


    *you find what factions is what in expanded.txt in ...data/text
    Last edited by Ngugi; June 10, 2017 at 09:25 AM.

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  11. #11
    Incredible Bulk's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Thank you

  12. #12
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Resource: Harad & Rhûn names

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Goldfish View Post
    Now if someone would have any ideas for some proper Dorwinion names, that'll complete my day
    Gothic is a rational choice as JRR used it to represent the language in Rhovanion's planes many hundred years before.
    Or pick from another germanic language to represent their language, such as names from Lombards, Franks or Vandals, if to set them apart in time and space from their related languages in north and west.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incredible Bulk View Post
    Thank you
    You're welcome

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