Am I The Only One Trying Really Hard To Like This Game? [and finding it hard to like it]

[ByzantinePowerGame]

I would give the game an overall C- even though I would like to be able to give it a B or B+, but I cannot improve my rating for the game based on third party/user modifications. The basic vanilla game is lacking in many regards... The mods are not even a perfect solution, although no such perfect solution exists.

I am playing as Chaos and a mod to overhaul the poor unit roster of the Chaos, even it does not truly "fix" Chaos, it does not add demons, lesser demons, demon princes, to say nothing of the lack of greater demons, and it appears these mods have lowered my population surplus gain such that it will take 10 turns to gain my next surplus point, absurd...

I am exceedingly glad I bought this game on a $20 dollar sale, because I cannot conceive of any time when it would have been worth the $59 that CA has managed to successfully extract from large numbers of people.

I am old enough to have lived through the gaming era of the early 1990s when computer games were released complete and it wasn't left to the gaming community to mod games that were lacking in so many areas, to make them playable, to make them plausible, and to make them enjoyable.

It is fortunate that the TWC modding community exists, it is unfortunate that it *has* to exist because the publishers shouldn't be expecting their customers to do their job for them.


I like the game, but frankly, if Rome 1 IBFD or Julian the Apostate would actually still work on my computer, I would be playing that instead of TWW.

As it is, the only Total Wars I presently play are Shogun 2 and TWW, and both are mediocre in gameplay, immersion, and general feel, compared to the Rome 1 Caesar 58 BC, or the Twilight of the Republic, or IBFD, or Julian the Apostate.


If it were only the vanilla TWW I think I would have simply abandoned the game a few days after buying it.


The computer in Rome 1, particularly IBFD, seemed to make sense. It was possible to obtain great victories through prudent use of maneuver and tactically sound decisions on the battlefield. Battles actually felt like they meant something.

TWW battles are essentially a joke and 95% of the time I don't even bother with the battle, just doing auto-resolve, because the battles are just not worth it. That's half of the game right there.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

I find it more gratifying and enjoyable to read a book about ancient Rome or Roman warfare than to play Attila or Rome 2, and I would rather read a Warhammer fantasy novel than play Total War Warhammer.


Perhaps some day the game developers will rediscover what it was that made the games of the 1990s great.

[Ichon]

I find it more gratifying and enjoyable to read a book about ancient Rome or Roman warfare than to play Attila or Rome 2, and I would rather read a Warhammer fantasy novel than play Total War Warhammer.


Perhaps some day the game developers will rediscover what it was that made the games of the 1990s great.

Certainly sometimes a good book is better than a game but I like to be a bit more active than simply absorbing information and taking several books to build up a coherent structure of information I can actually think about.

However I think you are maybe a bit erroneous about games from the 90s. Sure there are a handful of classics that haven't really been improved upon but if you actually go back and play alot of those games for a few hours (enough to get past the warm tinge of nostalgia) you'll start noticing quite a few gameplay shortcuts and design flaws. From my perspective there are less flaws than current generation games but also usually far less features so each flaw is more noticeable. Newer games definitely don't get everything right but there is a lot more stuff to do and while there are numerous flaws most of the time the overall experience is better.

Rome 1 felt fun because you could literally win 4 to 1 battles with poor units or even 40 to 1 with elite units which can be fun at times but certainly wasn't challenging campaign or much replay value. The building and recruitment system was something I think hasn't been improved on in TW after MTW2 but the pure building design is cleaner and there is less late game OP though honestly late game isn't exactly that tough still so I can't say if it is a 'better' option overall. However in every other category I can think of newer TW are an improvement even with many flaws.

Talking about other games the main 3 I think of right away that haven't really been improved upon from the 90s are Baldurs Gate, Master of Orion, and Fallout Tactics.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

I found the Rome 1 IBFD 410 AD mod to be excellent, and incredibly challenging. It required me to really be on the ball to crush the barbarians and completely restore the Western Empire.

[baselhun]

Is the game very flexible to modding just like RTW or MTW2? If no, then it should be medicore game, since for more than 10 years mods are the ones making the game enjoyable.

SEGA just sold us, because if they allow very flexible modding, we wouldn't buy their Heroic units™ and they wouldn't get money from such a little effort.
Lately they are getting money, because they made the game harder to mod. They make the game hard to mod and bad so we buy their next game eagerly hoping the game fixed which never happens.

[RGA]

TWW is, sadly, not for everybody. To enjoy it you have to deeply immerse yourself into the Warhammer universe, which, with all of its glorious twists and turns and legends and lores, would make the history of the Thirty Years wars look like a Sesame street song. You also have to throw away the petty limitations of real life, the stupid so-called "realism". And last but not even closely least, you have to enslave yourself to the most greedy and perfidious consortium known to man and elves and beasts: Games Workshop. Everyday I wake up reading about how people complain about DLCs and smile: they have no idea what true fans have to go through

Long story short: TWW is not for everyone.

[craziii]

stop playing chaos, try to play the regular factions with towns first. horde factions takes skill to play.

[Daruwind]

Warhammer is fantasy, what do you expect? Greenskins are suicidical to the extreme, undead are..you know undead. Elves,dwarves with all their characteristic behavior (pointy arrogant ears vs stuborn beards) Chaos with destruction only policy.... Warhammer is about heroes,magic and big things. But from your description is looks like you won´t enjoy any newer TWs...not rome2 not attila so all i can recommend is going back to TW Rome 1. Find again your lovely mods.

I like every total war for being different in something. If you want a perceft game, that cannot be produce as every fan is expecting something slightly different.

[econ21]

Chaos was pre-order DLC and is less developed and polished than the other four factions. Try them before dismissing the game. It's widely believed the third Warhammer TW game will flesh out Chaos with demons etc.

Don't autoresolve: it's insanely favorable to the player in most cases. (Also, you probably already don't, but don't play on normal - it's easier than in past TW games). Take a non-cheese army (e.g. an Empire stack with state troops or dwarven army with warriors) and fight one of Archaon's stacks, one on one. Then tell me TWW battles are joke. It's now got to the stage when I want a pre-battle edge to take on the AI in the field: I will win an even fight, but typically be in no position to take advantage of it afterwards. It's a case of bring 2 stacks or go home. The campaign AI is not so challenging, but it's an AI and a very free form game, so we have to be realistic in what we expect.

I'm also a veteran of 1990s computer games, so share your rose-tinted glasses. But TWW is a very polished game with a lot to offer with very good battle AI, comparable to the old STW and MTW. RTW AI was almost brain dead, both in the battle and campaign. Tactically, it could not hold a battle line on the attack; strategically, it could not expand (just press end turn repeatedly in RTW1 and see how little the map changes). Modders did great work, I know, but they could not fix stupid (just give it a good lick of chrome and a ton of advantages).

[Chewie]

The mod you play with makes chaos troops even more overpowered than they are. You get to build multiple stacks of troops long before you can afford one elite stack in vanilla. You're attacking AI before AI has a chance to tech up, so you're fighting troops you far outclass. When your troops far outclass the enemy's, battles will inevitably end at a quicker rate. When your troops far outclass the enemy's, you rely less (or not at all) on innovative tactics to win. Have you played and completed any faction's vanilla campaign yet?

[Påsan]

I would give the game an overall C- even though I would like to be able to give it a B or B+, but I cannot improve my rating for the game based on third party/user modifications. The basic vanilla game is lacking in many regards... The mods are not even a perfect solution, although no such perfect solution exists.

I am playing as Chaos and a mod to overhaul the poor unit roster of the Chaos, even it does not truly "fix" Chaos, it does not add demons, lesser demons, demon princes, to say nothing of the lack of greater demons, and it appears these mods have lowered my population surplus gain such that it will take 10 turns to gain my next surplus point, absurd...

I am exceedingly glad I bought this game on a $20 dollar sale, because I cannot conceive of any time when it would have been worth the $59 that CA has managed to successfully extract from large numbers of people.

I am old enough to have lived through the gaming era of the early 1990s when computer games were released complete and it wasn't left to the gaming community to mod games that were lacking in so many areas, to make them playable, to make them plausible, and to make them enjoyable.

It is fortunate that the TWC modding community exists, it is unfortunate that it *has* to exist because the publishers shouldn't be expecting their customers to do their job for them.


I like the game, but frankly, if Rome 1 IBFD or Julian the Apostate would actually still work on my computer, I would be playing that instead of TWW.

As it is, the only Total Wars I presently play are Shogun 2 and TWW, and both are mediocre in gameplay, immersion, and general feel, compared to the Rome 1 Caesar 58 BC, or the Twilight of the Republic, or IBFD, or Julian the Apostate.


If it were only the vanilla TWW I think I would have simply abandoned the game a few days after buying it.


The computer in Rome 1, particularly IBFD, seemed to make sense. It was possible to obtain great victories through prudent use of maneuver and tactically sound decisions on the battlefield. Battles actually felt like they meant something.

TWW battles are essentially a joke and 95% of the time I don't even bother with the battle, just doing auto-resolve, because the battles are just not worth it. That's half of the game right there.

Sic.. you are not playing Chaos Deanons you are playibg chaos Warriors. The deamons arent one of the factions in the game yet.

Also if you autoresolve everything and play chaos. There's no point for you to play TWW. I agree.

[Nebaki]

After Shogun 2 they only fail - i mean im still playing today mtw2 or even the kingdoms mod for atilla - seems to be SEGA is blind or just want to try bankruptcy.

[Daruwind]

After Shogun 2 they only fail - i mean im still playing today mtw2 or even the kingdoms mod for atilla - seems to be SEGA is blind or just want to try bankruptcy.

Actually they make more and more money ;-) Warhammer si biggest success so far hence they have so many teams working on so many projects right now ;-) Don´t be ignorant just because you prefer old way....

[Illidan1371]

Well to be honest I think TWW is better than Rome1, the only real advantage of MDTW2 and RTW1 over the newer games are the mods(which i agree are a big deal, mods like Europa Barbarorum 1 and 2 are the most immersive historical games that I have ever played). One of the big reasons that makes me think the newer TW games are better is diplomacy, now I know the game is called Totalwar but in Rome1 the A.I could't help but declare war on you, sometimes a faction which was thousands of kilometers away would randomly blockade your docks and declare war and it was literally impossible to have a lasting alliance unless you were playing as a Roman family but even then they were useless since they never help u and go their own way, in Rome2 and TWW u can at least count on your allies(war targets).

But i guess what i dislike about TWW is that due to all the giant monsters and flying horses, the battles are far less tactical and arcady,it all comes down to micro-management(in online battles) since using your general's spells correctly and at the right time is essential to winning battles, and again due to the fact that your enemies walk very fast and the battle commences and ends very quickly(almost ridiculously so). now i may be wrong but i guess Shogun 2 is the most tactical TW game i have ever played especially when playing online, since all armies consist of almost the same units and it is very important to choose how and when to engage the enemy since a generals' skill levels are the only thing that can determine the winner. I still play Shogun 2 most of the time and only play Warhammer when i'm tired of thinking and want a casual game which is pretty to look at, seriously the graphics are awesome!

[Sebidee]

One of the main reasons why this game is a little disappointing for me is the lack of complexity in the campaign map. Diplomacy is pretty much non-existent, if you are playing as "good guys" then you will always fight the "bad guys" and vice versa. There isn't much economic gameplay as most of your income will come from battles and the building system is quite limited. There is just very little to do in the campaign and it feels like it is just a vehicle to go from battle to battle without much strategy actually emerging from it.

Another thing is the poor replay ability. I have played two enjoyable campaigns: one as the Empire and one as Chaos. Beyond that nothing really appeals to me as the campaign always plays out the same, you are either fighting against the Chaos invasion or fighting for it. That really contrasts with my experience in Medieval 2, Empire, Shogun and Rome 2 where I played dozens and dozens of campaigns and never had them play the same.

It's undeniable that the universe itself makes me a bit biased against the game too. I love history and love to re-enact it in Total War, you can't get that same feeling with warhammer.

That said, Warhammer does to a lot of things right. The UI, graphics, sound and animation really is incredible and it has very few bugs, technically it is a great game and the legendary lords and skill trees are a very good addition but I think it lacks a lot of the core appeal that past games had.

[craziii]

that is what happens when you include a more story driven campaign and quests/missions. you want more sandbox it seems. in this case, they are mutually exclusive. you can't have both. ca actually has a really good excuse this time around. the lore would never allow dwarfs n greens to make nice with each other through diplomacy. and how do you talk to chaos factions who just want to rip you apart and eat you?

I want ca to include all the stuff they have learned and improved with the warhammer tw series and pass it down to the next historical tw game.

[senna505]

im very deep in warhammer lore because of 1 mod call of warhammer but for some reason tww is unplayble for me i just cant enjoy it
its the most arcade tw game ever

[geala]

I did not try hard to like the game as I'm not a fan of the Warhammer universe, but I bought it, tried it and like it ... a bit. In it's special way it is a good TW game with a special flavour, especially if you be on the "battle faction" side. Battles offer some diversity because of the really different faction design. And because Warhammer is crazy fantasy stuff I can accept the sometimes strange unit behaviour, speed and performance: TW:W is the first TW game I can play in an only slightly modded form.

I like battles but I like also complex campaigns (in the much restricted TW games sense). And in this field TWW sucks a little bit. Too few options and areas where I can make campaigns different, too streamlined in the end. For example R2:TW with the DeI mod (especially the fantastic 1.2 version) is better than TW:W in almost any aspect, campaign and battles alike.

The very best of TW:W btw is the return of the guard button. And steamtanks. The worst maybe is that Wood Elves wear too much clothing.

[craziii]

too streamlined is because of the limitation of the AI until that problem is solved if ever, you will not see a better campaign for this series.

or maybe they have the AI now, but it will make the game too hard for most people

take your pick.

whenever I read posters throwing around terms and concepts they don't understand like arcade, I immediately dismissed them.

[Huberto]

Agree with OP TW:WH is overrated and dreary. I enjoyed the campaign a dozen hours or so before I just got bored. The WH world is so derivative. The campaign map feels cramped and contrived, the depiction of the races seems childish. True the battles can be fun, but it's ultimately more fun for me to fight battles in the historical games or another RTS like Deserts of Kharak or Wargame. Face it, despite their many flaws, the historical campaigns in TW are simply better, especially with mods. It's hard to believe that people really like this sort of unoriginal, commercialized fantasy style but hey, different strokes, amiright?