I am an Islamophobe.

[Squiggle]

Exactly what you do not like of Islam as it is lived in Western societies?

- Some remain politically and culturally isolated from the rest of society.
- Anti gay and transgender bigotry
- Anti sex
-Anti drugs
- Anti alcohol
- Against pork
- Superstitious
- Close minded
- Often non secular in view of government, politically and religiously radical
-misogynistic and abusive towards children
- Close minded and proud of it.

[PointOfViewGun]

- Some remain politically and culturally isolated from the rest of society.
- Anti gay and transgender bigotry
- Anti sex
-Anti drugs
- Anti alcohol
- Against pork
- Superstitious
- Close minded
- Often non secular in view of government, politically and religiously radical
-misogynistic and abusive towards children
- Close minded and proud of it.

Only the pork part has a basis in Quran. Rest is what you can find in any conservative group, be it Muslim or not.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Only the pork part has a basis in Quran. Rest is what you can find in any conservative group, be it Muslim or not.

Please match such stats for any other conservative group.

https://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL

[PointOfViewGun]

Please match such stats for any other conservative group.

https://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL

Practically any conservative group from any community? The pork bit is an exception for Jews and Muslims though.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Practically any conservative group from any community? The pork bit is an exception for Jews and Muslims though.

Good. Then it should be easy for you to get the stats to match what I put.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Regards
DL

[Muizer]

Idol worshiping literalist cults like Islam and Christianity, need to evolve to remain pertinent to civilization.

How far can such religions evolve without losing touch with their legitimising origin myths and revelations about god and heaven? Not far enough to remain credibile in the face of the revelations of science about the universe we actually inhabit. To return to the OP's point. That is what frightens me the most about religious people. That they are hamstrung in their decision making by antiquated perspectives. To fully realise that is frightening. As an analogy imagine: every day you take part in traffic, knowing that your life depends on other people (also) keeping their eyes open and acting responsibly. Becoming fully aware of your fellow man's religious inclinations and its effect on their outlook is a bit like realising half the people on the street are actually half blind, deaf and unaware of traffic rules. Accidents will happen.

[Cyclops]

OP is afraid.

Fear is the mind killer. We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality. Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Sources, can you guess them?

Frank Herbert, Plato, Seneca, Bertrand Russell.

My own suggestion to adults who are afraid is drink an nice tall glass of concrete and harden the up.

[PointOfViewGun]

Good. Then it should be easy for you to get the stats to match what I put.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Regards
DL

What kind of statistics are you looking for?

[Himster]

Rest is what you can find in any conservative group, be it Muslim or not.

Yes.

Please match such stats for any other conservative group

That's dumb and irrelevant.
These moose-lambs only seem scarier than native conservatives because they're just alien. That's all. Although that might be grounds for being afraid of them: a sub-group of people pathologically opposed to ever understanding you is still subject to the (by now instinctual) principle of reciprocity..... that's not a recipe for good times.

I'm an Islamophobe in the same way I'm an arachnophobe: I'm okay when I see one on the street, but if I am taking a nap and wake up to find one sitting on my chest, I'd totally freak the out. Also if a spider shouted "Allahu-akbar" really loud on a plane, how scary would that be?

[Squiggle]

Only the pork part has a basis in Quran. Rest is what you can find in any conservative group, be it Muslim or not.

Anti gay bigotry (hell, everything i listed) is not some unique but mysterious aspect of what we call "conservative", conservative is in reference to something. Conservative islam or conservative Christianity, etc. Not all religion is as vile and barbaric as one another, nor one society to the next.

These things have everything to do with islam.

[PointOfViewGun]

Anti gay bigotry (hell, everything i listed) is not some unique but mysterious aspect of what we call "conservative", conservative is in reference to something. Conservative islam or conservative Christianity, etc. Not all religion is as vile and barbaric as one another, nor one society to the next.

These things have everything to do with islam.

Yet, conservative is the common denominator for those issues, not Islam.

[Squiggle]

Yet, conservative is the common denominator for those issues, not Islam.

Only when in reference to abrahamic religions would "conservative" describe a superstitious bigot in the way I described it. There is a reason for that, its not incidental, and its not the "conservatism" of humanity. It's the beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Islam's particular brand of barbarism is a little different than Christianities, but both are particular to their ideologies and not 'manipulations' of it.

[PointOfViewGun]

Only when in reference to abrahamic religions would "conservative" describe a superstitious bigot in the way I described it. There is a reason for that, its not incidental, and its not the "conservatism" of humanity. It's the beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Islam's particular brand of barbarism is a little different than Christianities, but both are particular to their ideologies and not 'manipulations' of it.

What non-Abrahamic religion's conservatives doesn't tick most of those requirements?

As I said, only the pork part has a basis in Quran. You're merely claiming bigotry by using bigoted arguments.

[Himster]

Yet, conservative is the common denominator for those issues, not Islam.

I agree that conservative is the common denominator. But that doesn't exonerate Islam, or Christianity or whatever other species of conservative there is.

[PointOfViewGun]

I agree that conservative is the common denominator. But that doesn't exonerate Islam, or Christianity or whatever other species of conservative there is.

That's not the issue here one way or an other. Why you felt the need to state this?

[Admiral Piett]

It's not. Quran, many times, state that men and women are created equal. Quran doesn't have the original sin idea where Adam and Eve gets kicked out of the paradise because Eve ate the apple. Quran also doesn't have the idea of Eve being created out of Adam's rib. They are created in equal terms and judged equally.

Not specifically Adam's rib, but Hawaa was created from Adam, not simultaneously. At least, from what I read of the Quran's version of creation. Additionally, the concept of the burden of original sin is not universally agreed upon between various Christian denominations. Orthodoxy and Mormonism in particular do not believe all man inherited original sin, only that the concept of sin, or simply the temptation to be apart from god, was introduced then which is somewhat similar to the Muslim perspective.

[Sar1n]

Only the pork part has a basis in Quran. Rest is what you can find in any conservative group, be it Muslim or not.

I wonder if this defense is something they teach in mosque. Funny thing that. It's always "not in Quran, it is false". But what some non-islamic people don't realize is, Quran is not the only authority in Islam. Majority of its commandments, and in my opinion most of the ugliest ones, originate from hadiths and generally Islamic tradition. And there you can find examples of:
Arranged child marriage
Superstitions, including their irrational hatred towards dogs
Close mindedness. That's one of biggest arguments against Islam I have. They're stuck in the barbarism of 7th century Arabia, because they venerate Muhammad who was raised there and then. Through this veneration, Islam is stuck, and without pressure from non-islamic countries, they slide back to that barbarism. It happened in Saudi Arabia and UAE when the oil income allowed them to culturally isolate themselves from outside influences. It's happening in Malaysia and Turkey right now.
Theocracy as "ideal government" (caliphate).
Irrational cultural imperatives, Islamic culture (actually originally Arabic, just codified as Islamic by hadiths) seen as divine, through this lack of respect to other cultures, making the coexistence difficult.

And so on.

[PointOfViewGun]

Not specifically Adam's rib, but Hawaa was created from Adam, not simultaneously. At least, from what I read of the Quran's version of creation. Additionally, the concept of the burden of original sin is not universally agreed upon between various Christian denominations. Orthodoxy and Mormonism in particular do not believe all man inherited original sin, only that the concept of sin, or simply the temptation to be apart from god, was introduced then which is somewhat similar to the Muslim perspective.

Many denominations in a way blame Eve for eating the apple, hence, getting kicked out of heaven. That doesn't exist in Islam in any form or shape, as far as I know, even for the most extremist communities. Quran, many times, specifically mentions both men and women while listing good deeds or duties.

33:35 Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so - for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.

I might ask, does Orthodoxy not blame Eve for eating the apple? Quran doesn't have that.

I wonder if this defense is something they teach in mosque. Funny thing that. It's always "not in Quran, it is false". But what some non-islamic people don't realize is, Quran is not the only authority in Islam. Majority of its commandments, and in my opinion most of the ugliest ones, originate from hadiths and generally Islamic tradition. And there you can find examples of:
Arranged child marriage
Superstitions, including their irrational hatred towards dogs
Close mindedness. That's one of biggest arguments against Islam I have. They're stuck in the barbarism of 7th century Arabia, because they venerate Muhammad who was raised there and then. Through this veneration, Islam is stuck, and without pressure from non-islamic countries, they slide back to that barbarism. It happened in Saudi Arabia and UAE when the oil income allowed them to culturally isolate themselves from outside influences. It's happening in Malaysia and Turkey right now.
Theocracy as "ideal government" (caliphate).
Irrational cultural imperatives, Islamic culture (actually originally Arabic, just codified as Islamic by hadiths) seen as divine, through this lack of respect to other cultures, making the coexistence difficult.

And so on.

Quran is the only real authority in Islam. The rest is pretty much a reflection of the local culture, hence, practice of such things vary widely from country to country, community to community.

[Sar1n]

Quran is the only real authority in Islam. The rest is pretty much a reflection of the local culture, hence, practice of such things vary widely from country to country, community to community.

Most muslims disagree with you on that point. In both Sunni and Shia denominations, hadiths are considered cannonical, although they disagree with what specific stories should be canonical or apocryphal. And whatever their origin is, they're part of Islam as it is practiced by vast majority of its followers, and thus have to be considered integral part of it.

[PointOfViewGun]

Most muslims disagree with you on that point. In both Sunni and Shia denominations, hadiths are considered cannonical, although they disagree with what specific stories should be canonical or apocryphal. And whatever their origin is, they're part of Islam as it is practiced by vast majority of its followers, and thus have to be considered integral part of it.

Yet, you, or they, can't tell us a specific list of Hadith and Sunna (not Sunni) that are regarded as canonical for all Muslims. Quran is the only source that is in its whole canonical for everyone, regardless of denomination or community. There is no group of Muslims that publicly reject parts of the Quran while they accept the other parts.

Most Muslims wouldn't really disagree with me. When faced with the question of what is the source of authority in Islam, all will say the Quran first. Some will say the Quran and the prophet, which gets tricky. Most, if not overwhelming majority of them, like all of them, will not specifically say the Hadith stories or the Sunna. They'll point at the prophet instead which is something they can play around with. The Hadith and the Sunna almost never given as as canonical as Quran. In reality, these two things are after thoughts. Quran is the only real authority in Islam.