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Thread: I am an Islamophobe.

  1. #1

    Default I am an Islamophobe.

    I am an Islamophobe.

    Some Muslims follow an ideology, as written in theirreligious writing, which allows slavery of Muslim women. This sect of Islamallows the sale of child brides to others within their cult. These people wanta Caliphate that promotes and uses slavery.

    The Muslim men in this slave holding cult have submitted toAllah and are eager slaves to him thanks to the pleasant heavenly gifts hepromises. They believe themselves to be favored by God and hate all those whoare not.

    History of religion, especially Christianity, shows thatwhen a belief is strong, even if miss-guided, ends all compromise within thebeliever. Thus is born Inquisitions, Jihads, Honor killing and murder ofnon-believers and apostates.

    The assumptions that these people make of God, without anyproof and based on the supernatural and the writings of imperfect men, becomeso arrogant, that they act as slave traders based on their beliefs withoutregard for moral and ethical standards. They in fact break their ownreciprocity rules.

    These Muslims allow this theological certainty to create atyrannical cult of slaved men who then make second class slaves out of theirfemale children. Naming these Muslim women and girl’s chattel would be anunderstatement. They are truly slaves, as Allah demands.

    These Muslims imitate their slave holding master, Allah, andlike all tyrants, hate all others not of their ilk. They allow their hate topush them to violence against the free people in the free world.

    Islamophobia is a fear of Islam. Moral people willfight against slavery.

    I fear that free people will not be Islamophobic enough,because of their fear of being labelled racist or Islamophobe, to rise up andgive secours to the unwilling female slave of Islam.

    I am proudly an Islamophobe.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nri300CcCuE
    Regards
    DL
    Last edited by Iskar; May 01, 2017 at 08:44 PM. Reason: personal references/disruptive content removed

  2. #2

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    I'm not an expert in this subject, but as long as I know there are several branches in Islam. Some of them are moderate; some of them are ultraconservative. From what you wrote on your post it looks like you are describing the Wahhabism. However, not all muslims advocate "slavery" of other humans. For example, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, nontheless, they are very aware about women's rights. For example Rojava proclaims equality among men and women.
    IMO, making prejudgements about a group of people is not a moral attitude. So a person who proclaims being an islamophobe might not be a moral person.

  3. #3

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boicote View Post
    I'm not an expert in this subject, but as long as I know there are several branches in Islam. Some of them are moderate; some of them are ultraconservative. From what you wrote on your post it looks like you are describing the Wahhabism. However, not all muslims advocate "slavery" of other humans. For example, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, nontheless, they are very aware about women's rights. For example Rojava proclaims equality among men and women.
    IMO, making prejudgements about a group of people is not a moral attitude. So a person who proclaims being an islamophobe might not be a moral person.
    Proclaiming the equality of men and women goes directly against the Qur'an and Sharia law does it not?

    Regards
    DL

  4. #4
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    It is also very likely that that your moral is quite debatable, I think you have misused the word, if you judge and hate a population as a whole without taking into account more or less particular important circumstances.
    Last edited by Iskar; May 02, 2017 at 05:48 AM. Reason: continuity

  5. #5

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be amoral person.

    Some Muslims follow an ideology, as written in theirreligious writing, which allows slavery of Muslim women. This sect of Islamallows the sale of child brides to others within their cult. These people wanta Caliphate that promotes and uses slavery.

    The Muslim men in this slave holding cult have submitted toAllah and are eager slaves to him thanks to the pleasant heavenly gifts hepromises. They believe themselves to be favored by God and hate all those whoare not.

    History of religion, especially Christianity, shows thatwhen a belief is strong, even if miss-guided, ends all compromise within thebeliever. Thus is born Inquisitions, Jihads, Honor killing and murder ofnon-believers and apostates.

    The assumptions that these people make of God, without anyproof and based on the supernatural and the writings of imperfect men, becomeso arrogant, that they act as slave traders based on their beliefs withoutregard for moral and ethical standards. They in fact break their ownreciprocity rules.

    These Muslims allow this theological certainty to create atyrannical cult of slaved men who then make second class slaves out of theirfemale children. Naming these Muslim women and girl’s chattel would be anunderstatement. They are truly slaves, as Allah demands.

    These Muslims imitate their slave holding master, Allah, andlike all tyrants, hate all others not of their ilk. They allow their hate topush them to violence against the free people in the free world.

    Islamophobia is a fear of Islam. Those who do not fear andhate this slave holding cult of Islam, along with the other inhuman and immoralpolicies that Islam and Sharia allow, are not moral people. Moral people willfight against slavery.

    I fear that free people will not be Islamophobic enough,because of their fear of being labelled racist or Islamophobe, to rise up andgive secours to the unwilling female slave of Islam.

    I am proudly an Islamophobe. If you are not you might not bea moral person.

    Are you a moral person?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nri300CcCuE

    Regards
    DL
    Quran describes a righteous Muslim as someone who tries to free slaves. So, it's quite hard for your narrative of Muslims being a slave holding cult to survive...

    2:177 Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Proclaiming the equality of men and women goes directly against the Qur'an and Sharia law does it not?

    Regards
    DL
    It's not. Quran, many times, state that men and women are created equal. Quran doesn't have the original sin idea where Adam and Eve gets kicked out of the paradise because Eve ate the apple. Quran also doesn't have the idea of Eve being created out of Adam's rib. They are created in equal terms and judged equally.

    4:124 And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, while being a believer - those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged, [even as much as] the speck on a date seed.
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #6

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    By Christian, i.e. true, moral standards, Islam is probably Satan's worst introduction to humanity, worse than even Marxism.

    Very good post, DL. The issue of slaves, especially women under the "guardianship" law in a lot of Islamic countries, has been in the news lately, and is very important to me. As Winston Churchill said, "The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

    I would certainly hesitate to use the word men to describe the orcs who enslave women.

    On a related note, this quote about Islamophobia is true and funny:

    "Islamophobia: A word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons."
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  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    It is also very likely that your moral is quite debatable, I think you have misused the word, if you judge and hate a population as a whole without taking into account more or less particular important circumstances.
    All Muslims fly the star and crescent and thus all contribute to what Islam is. What important circumstances are you thinking of that would refute that all contribute to the whole?



    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Quran describes a righteous Muslim as someone who tries to free slaves. So, it's quite hard for your narrative of Muslims being a slave holding cult to survive...
    Yet an old Muslim man cab buy a child bride, and the Afghan rape law says a man can lock up his woman and along with the wife beating rule do basically what he wants with her. I know you know what Honor killing is as well.

    It's not. Quran, many times, state that men and women are created equal. Quran doesn't have the original sin idea where Adam and Eve gets kicked out of the paradise because Eve ate the apple. Quran also doesn't have the idea of Eve being created out of Adam's rib. They are created in equal terms and judged equally.
    That is not what Sharia law says of female rape victims.

    Further.
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pa...orth-less.aspx

    Sahih Bukhari (62:81)- "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided byare those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) privateparts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words,the most important thing a woman brings to marriage is between her legs.

    Sahih Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]:'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"These are the words ofMuhammad's favorite wife, complaining of the role assigned to women underIslam.Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you caneasily change one for another.'"Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. Hewas also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without aword of rebuke from him.

    Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah'sMessenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave[future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umaranother." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors,handing out enslaved women to his cronies for sex.Tabari VIII:117 - The fate ofmore captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves assex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophetchose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah hertwo cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

    Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them[women]"

    Do you see any form of equality in the above?

    Regards
    DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    By Christian, i.e. true, moral standards, Islam is probably Satan's worst introduction to humanity, worse than even Marxism.

    Very good post, DL. The issue of slaves, especially women under the "guardianship" law in a lot of Islamic countries, has been in the news lately, and is very important to me. As Winston Churchill said, "The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

    I would certainly hesitate to use the word men to describe the orcs who enslave women.

    On a related note, this quote about Islamophobia is true and funny:

    "Islamophobia: A word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons."
    Funny, and thanks for the kudos.

    You will not like that I disagree with your "By Christian, i.e. true, moral standards"

    If those where worthy then Christians would be advocating for biblical law and they are certainly not doing so as they do not like to publically stone people now a days.

    Further, their no divorce law and forgiveness policies are quite immoral.

    The former forces people to live in loveless or abusive relationships and that is quite unjust, and the later forces Christians to try to profit from substitutionary punishment of the innocentinstead of the guilty which goes agains justice as described in scriptures.

    Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The sonshall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear theiniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, andthe wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

    Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

    Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The sonshall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for theiniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself,and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

    Jesus said to pick up our crosses/burden for sin, and follow him. He never sais that Christiansd should use him as their scapegoat and sacrifice.

    This Bishop says that that immoral policy is what will kill Christianity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNu...s_digest-vrecs

    Regards
    DL
    Last edited by Iskar; May 02, 2017 at 05:49 AM. Reason: Double post merged/ continuity

  8. #8

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    I figured you'd disagree, but I was just giving a moral standard to judge Islam by, instead of personal opinion only.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    That is not what Sharia law says of female rape victims.

    Further.
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pa...orth-less.aspx

    Sahih Bukhari (62:81)- "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided byare those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) privateparts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words,the most important thing a woman brings to marriage is between her legs.

    Sahih Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]:'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"These are the words ofMuhammad's favorite wife, complaining of the role assigned to women underIslam.Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you caneasily change one for another.'"Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. Hewas also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without aword of rebuke from him.

    Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah'sMessenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave[future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umaranother." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors,handing out enslaved women to his cronies for sex.Tabari VIII:117 - The fate ofmore captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves assex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophetchose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah hertwo cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

    Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them[women]"

    Do you see any form of equality in the above?

    Regards
    DL
    Sharia law, meaning religious law, can not violate the Quran. So, if you're basing your arguments on Hadith stories and contradicting the Quran then you're perverting Islam. You are, however, just posting deception. Good old deception. Sahih Muslim's 4:1039, for example, is not about women's role under Islam. It's about Aisha scolding a bunch of ignorant people and telling them what the prophet did of something that they seen as invalid.

    4:1036 'A'isha reported: The Apostle of Allah (Peace be upon him) said his whole prayer (Tahajjud prayer) during the night while I lay between him and the Qibla. When he intended to say Witr (prayer) he awakened me and I too said witr (prayer).

    4:1037 'Urwa b. Zubair reported: 'A'isha asked: What disrupts the prayer? We said: The woman and the ass. Upon this she remarked: Is the woman an ugly animal? I lay in front of the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) like the bier of a corpse and he said prayer.

    4:1038 Masruq reported: It was mentioned before'A'isha that prayer is invalidated (in case of passing) of a dog, an ass and a woman (before the worshipper, when he is not screened). Upon this 'A'isha said: You likened us to the asses and the dogs. By Allah I saw the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) saying prayer while I lay on the bedstead interposing between him and the Qibla. When I felt the need, I did not like to wit to front (of the Holy Prophet) and perturb the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) and quietly moved out from under its (i. e. of the bedstead) legs.

    4:1039 Al-Aswad reported that 'A'isha said: You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses, whereas I lay on the bedstead and the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) came there and stood in the middle of the bedstead and said prayer. I did not like to take off the quilt from me (in that state), so I moved away quietly from the front legs of the bedstead and thus came out of the quilt.

    Quran 2:228 is a verse on divorce. It tells people that if either party to a divorce wants reconciliation they can get back together. The men having a degree above women is the men's responsibility to take her back. A woman has less obligation to reconcile when her marriage falls apart.

    Nice to see you drop the slave argument that made the backbone of your thread...
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  10. #10
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    All Muslims fly the star and crescent and thus all contribute to what Islam is. What important circumstances are you thinking of that would refute that all contribute to the whole?
    Apart from the possible innate human need of any religion, doctrine or ideology that makes life and death more bearable, you do not take into account that we are always members of a certain society and we will, almost inevitably, accept the religiosity or ideology (or idiosyncrasy or folklore) of our community as something natural.

    Basically you are calling immoral (or amoral, you have not clarified the question of the terminology) people who (like almost everybody else) have barely had a chance to not have the beliefs* they have. (This may seem insulting to religious people. It is not my intention to offend, if someone wants to discuss the issue of "freedom" elsewhere, go ahead).

    *Setekh is in my opinion properly dealing with the vision that you have, perhaps wrong, about his religion.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    I figured you'd disagree, but I was just giving a moral standard to judge Islam by, instead of personal opinion only.
    Thanks.

    I would have used our true moral compass which is secular law as they put religious law to shame.


    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Sharia law, meaning religious law, can not violate the Quran. So, if you're basing your arguments on Hadith stories and contradicting the Quran then you're perverting Islam. You are, however, just posting deception. Good old deception. Sahih Muslim's 4:1039, for example, is not about women's role under Islam. It's about Aisha scolding a bunch of ignorant people and telling them what the prophet did of something that they seen as invalid.




    Quran 2:228 is a verse on divorce. It tells people that if either party to a divorce wants reconciliation they can get back together. The men having a degree above women is the men's responsibility to take her back. A woman has less obligation to reconcile when her marriage falls apart.

    Nice to see you drop the slave argument that made the backbone of your thread...
    I did not drop it so much as I did not think the obvious needed repeating.

    Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them[women]"

    As to that quote and your explanation of it, it still shows the inequality that is well entrenched within Islam. When Muslim women can get a divorce as easily as men can, then you might have a leg to stand on.

    Regards
    DL

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Apart from the possible innate human need of any religion, doctrine or ideology that makes life and death more bearable, you do not take into account that we are always members of a certain society and we will, almost inevitably, accept the religiosity or ideology (or idiosyncrasy or folklore) of our community as something natural.

    Basically you are calling immoral (or amoral, you have not clarified the question of the terminology) people who (like almost everybody else) have barely had a chance to not have the beliefs* they have. (This may seem insulting to religious people. It is not my intention to offend, if someone wants to discuss the issue of "freedom" elsewhere, go ahead).

    *Setekh is in my opinion properly dealing with the vision that you have, perhaps wrong, about his religion.
    Numbers do not lie and that is what I am using to determine the morality or immorality of Islam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=pSPvnFDDQHk

    Just the death to apostates as one example is embraced by 1/4 of all Muslims. That is demonstrably an immoral tenet.

    Work in all the other injustices of the Muslim ideology and I will let you decide how many Muslims are actually advocating moral living.

    Regards
    DL
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; April 29, 2017 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Consecutive posts merged.

  12. #12
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    You have a mathematical formula to determine the "morality" of people? Oh my god I want to see it! (But I am not going to watch a youtube video, sorry). Seriously, if you do not respond to any of my arguments, I will not waste my time at all watching your favorite youtube videos.
    Last edited by mishkin; April 29, 2017 at 02:16 PM. Reason: seriousness

  13. #13

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    I did not drop it so much as I did not think the obvious needed repeating.

    Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them[women]"

    As to that quote and your explanation of it, it still shows the inequality that is well entrenched within Islam. When Muslim women can get a divorce as easily as men can, then you might have a leg to stand on.

    Regards
    DL
    The obvious part is that you couldn't come up with anything of substance to address facts presented to you.

    Under Islam, Muslim women can get divorce as easily as men. In fact, it was Islam that provided many rights to women in case of divorce, financially trying to provide security to women. Whether misogyny of men distorts that doesn't really change what the Quran dictates.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    You have a mathematical formula to determine the "morality" of people? Oh my god I want to see it! (But I am not going to watch a youtube video, sorry). Seriously, if you do not respond to any of my arguments, I will not waste my time at all watching your favorite youtube videos.
    You can run but you cannot hide as lurkers will see that link and know how immoral Islam and Sharia are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    The obvious part is that you couldn't come up with anything of substance to address facts presented to you.

    Under Islam, Muslim women can get divorce as easily as men. In fact, it was Islam that provided many rights to women in case of divorce, financially trying to provide security to women. Whether misogyny of men distorts that doesn't really change what the Quran dictates.
    Facts I have.

    Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.
    Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they make more reliable witnesses.
    Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"
    Quran (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands, if there is no water to purify them, following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).
    Quran (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).
    Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse. If this is what Muhammad meant, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365).
    Quran (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.
    Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.Quran (4:24) and Quran (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).

    Regards
    DL

  15. #15

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Facts I have.

    Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.
    Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they make more reliable witnesses.
    Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"
    Quran (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands, if there is no water to purify them, following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).
    Quran (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).
    Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse. If this is what Muhammad meant, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365).
    Quran (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.
    Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.Quran (4:24) and Quran (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).

    Regards
    DL
    Sigh, these are verses that have been addressed over and over again. You're not even posting the entire verse or the context. Can't expect much when you're using anti-Islam propaganda website. Such ignorant and bigoted arguments simply doesn't work. It's no surprise that while you based your thread on assumptions about Islam and slavery no mention of exists anymore in these posts. If I provide the context and logic for these verses that you copy paste from an anti-Islam propaganda website you'll likely jump to other random points like you did. Is that a moral tactic to use in a discussion? Not really.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Plenty of Muslims practice Islam in a form which is liberal and compatible with Western values, so it can be done. It's pointless to expect a billion people to stop being Muslims even if you were of the opinion that Islam were inherently bad, better to just ask them to reform in a friendly way. Most Muslims don't want conflict and so they'll do it. Otherwise people should be able to practise their religion however they wish so long as it doesn't violate the law of the land. And if it does then prosecute and punish based on the crime committed, very simple.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  17. #17
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    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be amoral person.
    Congrats! Also I'm an Islamophobe! Actually I don't know if just for this reason we can be regarded as moral persons, i.e., I don't know if being an islamophobe is a necessary and sufficent condition to be considered a moral citizen, anyway I think that at least .. it's a good starting point!


    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh
    Quran describes a righteous Muslim as someone who tries to free slaves. So, it's quite hard for your narrative of Muslims being a slave holding cult to survive...
    Are you joking, right?

    Wiki:
    .
    The Mamluks were slave soldiers who converted to Islam and served the Muslim caliphs and the Ayyubid Sultans during the Middle Ages. The first Mamluks served the Abbasid caliphs in 9th century Baghdad. Over time, they became a powerful military caste, and on more than one occasion they seized power for themselves, for example, ruling Egypt from 1250–1517. From 1250 Egypt had been ruled by the Bahri dynasty of Kipchak Turk origin. White enslaved people from the Caucasus served in the army and formed an elite corps of troops eventually revolting in Egypt to form the Burgi dynasty.[17]

    According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary pirates and sold as slaves to North Africa and the Ottoman Empire between the 16th and 19th centuries.[18][19] The coastal villages and towns of Italy, Portugal, Spain and Mediterranean islands were frequently attacked by the pirates and long stretches of the Italian and Spanish coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants; after 1600 Barbary pirates occasionally entered the Atlantic and struck as far north as Iceland. The most famous corsairs were the Ottoman Barbarossa ("Redbeard"), and his older brother Oruç, Turgut Reis (known as Dragut in the West), Kurtoğlu (known as Curtogoli in the West), Kemal Reis, Salih Reis and Koca Murat Reis.[19][20]

    In 1544, Hayreddin Barbarossa captured Ischia, taking 4,000 prisoners in the process, and deported to slavery some 9,000 inhabitants of Lipari, almost the entire population.[21] In 1551, Dragut enslaved the entire population of the Maltese island Gozo, between 5,000 and 6,000, sending them to Libya. When pirates sacked Vieste in southern Italy in 1554 they took an estimated 7,000 slaves. In 1555, Turgut Reis sailed to Corsica and ransacked Bastia, taking 6000 prisoners. In 1558 Barbary corsairs captured the town of Ciutadella, destroyed it, slaughtered the inhabitants and carried off 3,000 survivors to Istanbul as slaves.[22] In 1563 Turgut Reis landed at the shores of the province of Granada, Spain, and captured the coastal settlements in the area like Almuñécar, along with 4,000 prisoners. Barbary pirates frequently attacked the Balearic islands, resulting in many coastal watchtowers and fortified churches being erected. The threat was so severe that Formentera became uninhabited.[23][24]

    Early modern sources are full of descriptions of sufferings of Christian galley slaves of the Barbary corsairs:

    Those who have not seen a galley at sea, especially in chasing or being chased, cannot well conceive the shock such a spectacle must give to a heart capable of the least tincture of commiseration. To behold ranks and files of half-naked, half-starved, half-tanned meagre wretches, chained to a plank, from whence they remove not for months together (commonly half a year), urged on, even beyond human strength, with cruel and repeated blows on their bare flesh...[25]
    As late as 1798, the islet near Sardinia was attacked by the Tunisians and over 900 inhabitants were taken away as slaves.

    Sahrawi-Moorish society in Northwest Africa was traditionally (and still is, to some extent) stratified into several tribal castes, with the Hassane warrior tribes ruling and extracting tribute – horma – from the subservient Berber-descended znaga tribes. Below them ranked servile groups known as Haratin, a black population.

    ..

    The Arab slave trade, established in the 8th and 9th centuries AD, involved a small-scale movement of people largely from the eastern Great Lakes region and the Sahel. Islamic law allowed slavery but prohibited slavery involving other pre-existing Muslims; as a result, the main target for slavery were the people who lived in the frontier areas of Islam in Africa.[7] The trade of slaves across the Sahara and across the Indian Ocean also has a long history beginning with the control of sea routes by Afro-Arab traders in the ninth century. It is estimated that only a few thousand enslaved people were taken each year from the Red Sea and Indian Ocean coast. They were sold throughout the Middle East. This trade accelerated as superior ships led to more trade and greater demand for labour on plantations in the region. Eventually, tens of thousands per year were being taken.[52] On the Swahili Coast, the Afro-Arab slavers captured Bantu peoples from the interior and brought them to the littoral.[53][54] There, the slaves gradually assimilated in the rural areas, particularly on the Unguja and Pemba islands.[53]

    This changed the slave relationships by creating new forms of employment by slaves (as eunuchs to guard harems and in military units) and creating conditions for freedom (namely conversion—although it would only free a slave's children).[1][9] Although the level of the trade remained small, the size of total slaves traded grew to a large number of the multiple centuries of its existence.[1] Because of its small and gradual nature, the impact on slavery practices in communities that did not convert to Islam was relatively small.[1] However, in the 1800s, the slave trade from Africa to the Islamic countries picked up significantly. When the European slave trade ended around the 1850s, the slave trade to the east picked up significantly only to be ended with European colonization of Africa around 1900.[42]

    In 1814, Swiss explorer Johann Burckhardt wrote of his travels in Egypt and Nubia, where he saw the practice of slave trading: "I frequently witnessed scenes of the most shameless indecency, which the traders, who were the principal actors, only laughed at. I may venture to state, that very few female slaves who have passed their tenth year, reach Egypt or Arabia in a state of virginity."[55]

    David Livingstone wrote of the slave trade: "To overdraw its evils is a simple impossibility ... We passed a slave woman shot or stabbed through the body and lying on the path. [Onlookers] said an Arab who passed early that morning had done it in anger at losing the price he had given for her, because she was unable to walk any longer. We passed a woman tied by the neck to a tree and dead ... We came upon a man dead from starvation ... The strangest disease I have seen in this country seems really to be broken heartedness, and it attacks free men who have been captured and made slaves." Livingstone estimated that 80,000 Africans died each year before ever reaching the slave markets of Zanzibar.[56][57][58][59] Zanzibar was once East Africa's main slave-trading port, and under Omani Arabs in the 19th century as many as 50,000 slaves were passing through the city each year.

    ...

    .
    Before oil, Bedouins' and Turks' main business was slavery.
    Do you know the best part of your post? This: in my opinion you are not joking and actually you believe in what you've written!

  18. #18
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Meh.

    Slavery and such like are/were moral to those who practice it.

    Morality is such a subjectively overrated measure.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  19. #19

    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Only radicals concern me. As long as one does no harm to me or do anything to cause suspicion I'm fine with its presence in society, and that goes for most ideologies and faiths. I understand in every group there are those who vehemently oppose "the other side" and seek its destruction. But most people in groups are largely apathetic or moderate and therefore labeling them all as "extremist" or "devout" wouldn't be an accurate generalization.

  20. #20
    Spear Dog's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    It is also very likely that your moral is quite debatable, I think you have misused the word, if you judge and hate a population as a whole without taking into account more or less particular important circumstances.
    ^This.

    Attributing an entire multi-ethnic multinational culturally diverse religious group (1.6 billion people, over 20% of the planets population) with the characteristics and short comings of a small number of prejudicially selected particular individuals is the very definition of racism or bigotry. Racist bigotry is widely condemned as immoral ethics across all religions and cultures that put any serious thought into it. The OP self identifies as a racist bigot and is therefore by the ethically accepted critiques of first world cultures, immorally inclined in thought and word.

    Justify it however you want, but stop pussyfooting around and trying to pin respectability to yourself with terms like 'Islamophobe' and regurgitated arguments previously identified as spurious rationales of racist ranters and haters.

    fyi, by attaching '...phobe' to Islam you identify yourself as not normal by having an irrational fear or hate of Islam, not as some righteous advocate.
    Last edited by Iskar; May 02, 2017 at 05:50 AM. Reason: continuity






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