Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Duchy of Lorraine

[Filips Augustus]

Speaking of the Genoese crossbowmen and Free company longbowmen, why not just use those units that are already present in the other factions? I believe the Genoese crossbowmen are in for both tier 2 and 3, and the free company longbowmen are for tier 2.

[Azrien Fox]

Speaking of the Genoese crossbowmen and Free company longbowmen, why not just use those units that are already present in the other factions? I believe the Genoese crossbowmen are in for both tier 2 and 3, and the free company longbowmen are for tier 2.

Yeah, I was planning on using premade genoese crossbowmen as well as free company longbowmen. But, I only saw tier 3 genoese crossbowmen and free company longbowmen.

I'll probably just make the longbowmen tier 2, turn down the range on them, and keep the genoese crossbowmen at tier 3.

[Azrien Fox]

Alright, I added common militia, spear militia, updated some photos, as well as added the merc units.

[Knight2708]

This faction just keeps getting better and better, this is honestly quickly turning into one of my favorite western factions.

One thing that I am a bit skeptical of though is that the tier 2 Lorrainer Swordsmen appear to be better armored than the tier 2 Dismounted Alsatian Chevaliers, as I would assume that the actual nobles would have access to superior equipment.

Also for the tier 2 Dismounted Coutiliers, I would mostly remove the Bascinets with visors, as they would be highly impractical for fighting on foot and instead increase the number of visored bascinets on the mounted coutiliers where they make more sense.

And finally, I think it would be cool if you could add the coats of arms and symbols of some of the major local cities to more of the militia units. Urban troops would usually have a strong sense of patriotism to their town and proudly show of its coat of arms on the battlefield.

[Minnesinger]

I agree with the post above, great choice of colors and this just keeps getting better concerning the soldiers' equipment. Beside of it have two questions : does the creation of two tier 3 alsatian chivalric units (alsatian chevaliers and alsatian nobles) express a will to differentiate lower and upper class knights? What are the origins, the history, of this Sawell de Mann unit? No hidden criticism here, I am curious.

[Azrien Fox]

I agree with the post above, great choice of colors and this just keeps getting better concerning the soldiers' equipment. Beside of it have two questions : does the creation of two tier 3 alsatian chivalric units (alsatian chevaliers and alsatian nobles) express a will to differentiate lower and upper class knights? What are the origins, the history, of this Sawell de Mann unit? No hidden criticism here, I am curious.

First, yeah I made both nobles and knights in order to show the difference between the different classes. Another reason why was because I had already planned on using mostly tabards for the knights, and I wanted to have a heavily armored unit showing their wealth by having Gothic plate armor in order to protect themselves. So I made the noble unit as sort of a step-up with protection and wealth, being able to afford such armor.

Second, I sort of made the sawell de mann from the events of the Burgundian wars, where Charles the bold took Nancy in 1476 or so. The idea was during that time, Rene had taken on the Cross of Lorraine as his coat of arms in sort of a rally cry to Lorraine, and my idea was that the sawell de mann were experienced fighters of Lorraine so eager to help rene take back Nancy and eventually stop Charles's second Stannis berathean style siege Nancy. So I from that, I wanted them to be this very mobile unit, with some armor to slow them down. And i also want them to give off a passive fear trait or ability because of the shields and the sawell furiousness on the battlefield.

[Azrien Fox]

This faction just keeps getting better and better, this is honestly quickly turning into one of my favorite western factions.

One thing that I am a bit skeptical of though is that the tier 2 Lorrainer Swordsmen appear to be better armored than the tier 2 Dismounted Alsatian Chevaliers, as I would assume that the actual nobles would have access to superior equipment.

Also for the tier 2 Dismounted Coutiliers, I would mostly remove the Bascinets with visors, as they would be highly impractical for fighting on foot and instead increase the number of visored bascinets on the mounted coutiliers where they make more sense.

And finally, I think it would be cool if you could add the coats of arms and symbols of some of the major local cities to more of the militia units. Urban troops would usually have a strong sense of patriotism to their town and proudly show of its coat of arms on the battlefield.

Oh yeah, I see what you mean with the swordsmen. I could try and add more padded gambesons, because I actually am a fan of them a bit more than the aketon. Sometimes the game won't balance out the amount of aketons and brigandines I set for them like i want it to, but I could try adding more aketons to make it more balanced, or maybe actually have more aketons and gambesons than brigandines.

Also I'll research some about city coat of arms. I'm sure there's at least two of three big cities in lorraine, Metz Nancy, and so on, that I could represent.

[Visarion]

Yup totally my fav Western faction!

*Genoese (Geonese)

[Azrien Fox]

And regarding the free company longbowmen, I am thinking of using both tiers of archers. As a French / German faction, crossbows were very popular, so I wanted to have more archers in my roster, even though it is a bit uneven with the amount of units in each tier. So I'm going to have the free company longbowmen tier 2 maybe be a bit less range and armor to even it out.

[warman222]

Very impressive man. I really like how you did the horse bardings. Are you going to make some proper Lorraine banner carriers? I could tell the one's in the shots are from the HRE faction.

[Azrien Fox]

Very impressive man. I really like how you did the horse bardings. Are you going to make some proper Lorraine banner carriers? I could tell the one's in the shots are from the HRE faction.

Actually, do you mean the banner carrier person? I made them myself...

[Visarion]

This is a very nice manuscript!

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?manuscript=3989

There are some intriguing representations of two-handed axemen, large shield guards and so on. What's the deal with them and how can we represent them? Were they a contingent or just isolated individuals? Was the one carrying that tower shield part of a elite corps or just a deffender of a general/captain/officer of some sort!? I also see at the end of the pike/spear formation persons with large shields on their back. What's the deal with them? Deffence against ranged attacks/arrow fire?

[Azrien Fox]

This is a very nice manuscript!

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?manuscript=3989

There are some intriguing representations of two-handed axemen, large shield guards and so on. What's the deal with them and how can we represent them? Were they a contingent or just isolated individuals? Was the one carrying that tower shield part of a elite corps or just a deffender of a general/captain/officer of some sort!? I also see at the end of the pike/spear formation persons with large shields on their back. What's the deal with them? Deffence against ranged attacks/arrow fire?

I'll have to see. The institution of Besançon is just south of lorraine, which is accurate, but the origin is from Paris. I'll have to see if it works. Also, i can start making some of those tabards. We have transitional tabard models now like those shown, courtesy of sly. I can always add those to units like maybe the hecht de mann, the sradt halberd and maybe guild halberd, since they're shown a lot with pike and spear units.

I could also maybe add them to the merchant marines, but they were sort of my own design, and thought maybe they wouldn't work with the tight armour a marine would wear. I could try and add some basic colored tabards into the mix.

[Azrien Fox]

Alright, jager-crossbows have been added, and that completes all the units I have for Lorraine on the forum!

Always still plenty to work on and finish, like... *cough* generals *cough* I'll probably be start working on the generals, and update the thread with generals when I have em completed. Here's what I was thinking of generals for the three tiers:

Tier 1 - Theobald I

Tier 2 - Fredrick IV and Rudolph the Valiant

Tier 3 - Charles II and Rene II


As always, feel free to leave suggestions and feedback about units, generals or otherwise.

[You_Guess_Who]

Always start with the generic bodyguard unit, they'll the ones running the show in Campaign. Remember that there can only be 1 faction leader with special bodyguard in-game, and the named generals are custom battle only - so the generic general bodyguards are of utmost importance. The rest can follow.

[Knight2708]

Alright, jager-crossbows have been added,

Very nice, although I would argue that some of the brighter colors like red and blue dont fit very well for hunters, maybe adding in some more green instead would make them look more realistic.

Also could you update some of the older screenshots in the OP at some point? A lot of them have this kind of tinged desaturated look that makes it hard to get a real impression of the colors of the units.

[Azrien Fox]

Very nice, although I would argue that some of the brighter colors like red and blue dont fit very well for hunters, maybe adding in some more green instead would make them look more realistic.

Also could you update some of the older screenshots in the OP at some point? A lot of them have this kind of tinged desaturated look that makes it hard to get a real impression of the colors of the units.

Oh yeah good idea, I'll add some black and green aketons instead.

Also, yeah I really should replace those photos. Ill probably retake them and reupload the new screenshots later today.

[Azrien Fox]

Always start with the generic bodyguard unit, they'll the ones running the show in Campaign. Remember that there can only be 1 faction leader with special bodyguard in-game, and the named generals are custom battle only - so the generic general bodyguards are of utmost importance. The rest can follow.

Wait, so you mean instead of having custom generals, I
Should have just Duke of Lorraine as the general name for tier 1? Or for all tiers? Because id really like to keep Rudolph and rene as custom generals.

[Maroni_The_Bat2]

I think he means that you can create the custom generals you want, just make the gen bodyguard unit first, as the custom generals aren't immortal.

[Azrien Fox]

Ah okay I see, so make the bodyguard, post them, then post the general with the bodyguard? Okay then.