Any TWC-like pages for CK2?

[lucamafra]

Hi there! I'm just getting into the style of games made by Paradox and am currently very much wanting to play CK2 (currently waiting for some sale on steam since the price with the DLCs is quite high atm).


The thing is, Total War Center is of great help in order to find information on the games and mods available for Total War titles, but the same isn't true to CK2 in here (of course). And games like CK2, with its many DLC, are quite newbie-unfriendly... I have no idea of which DLC are a must have and which can be ignored for most mods etc.


Is there a similar forum dedicated to games by Paradox Games? Or is it spread all over the internet and I'm utterly screwed?


Thanks in advance!

[PikeStance]

Well there is this forum and in the main CK2 forum there is at least one thread for a mod.
Since this is Total War center the primary focus is on Creative Assembly's Total War series. I supposed if there are enough mods published on TWC, then they may add a separate section per game. That hasn't happened yet.

For now your best bet is Paradox Forum and Steam. The members on Paradox forum are pretty friendly and they will give you good advice on which mods to use. At least that is my experience on there. When I bought CK2 I bought a bundle package on a pretty good discount. The best deals is when they put out a new game they always put the older games on sale. I also do not buy the content packs unless they are on sale for .99 cents or less. It is not as if I stare at them while I am playing. LOL Check out the free mods, they may be content that you like there.

[lucamafra]

Thanks a lot, mate!
I'll check those pages for sure. Still waiting for a better deal on CK2 though. =P

[eXistenZ]

You can wait for a long time. Paradox has a terrible dlc and sale policy. By the time a dlc has a decent sale (-50%) , two newer ones have come out. The "complete" bundle they advertise isnt complete and never will be.


I enjoyed the game for a good amount of hours, but the last two years I have barely played. Too many mediocre overpriced dlc and new mechanics, and patches that made things worse and boring because of "balance". I wouldnt recommend CK2 at this point anymore. It has pretty much become a milkcow to fund other projects, Paradox have moved on

[PikeStance]

50% heck no, I'll wait to 66% or 75% sales. Usually the 66% sale is preceded by a price drop. Between Total War and Paradox games, I do not have that much free time to need to buy any DLC quickly.

I guess it is youth, but I do not get the "milkcow" comments by people. These companies are the in the business of making money. I am sure they love their jobs, but they do not do it for love. They do what they love for money.
The prices of DLCs have gone up from 15 to 20. This tells me, despite the incessant complaining, that more than enough people were still buying it at 15. Unless people stop buying them at 20, they will stay at 20 or even go up. The effect is that Paradox can hire more people to develop more DLC quicker. Paying less would probably mean less frequent DLCs.

I think I prefer the DLC model over the "serial" model. A serial model would have the game be updated maybe every 2 or 3 years* and it would be an all or nothing proposition. In the DLC model, you can pick and choose the features you want.



* Serial games are sometimes produce every year, but often complaints are made that the features are minimal. Most console games are every year.

[eXistenZ]

you can wait for a long time for -66% at paradox sales. it took more than a year before Horse Lords dropped to -66%. In comparison, Age of charlemagne for Attila reached this after 6 months. the reaper's due, 9 months old has only dropped to -33%. Sure, you can wait, a lot of us like to have the feeling to play the complete game, like the devs intended

And offcours the issue is with paradox that they "patch" the game so it suits the new dlc. If you dont have it, you're outta luck. that explains partly why people keep buying them. If you wait for i to go on sale, you're two dlc behind all the time


And I call CK2 a milkcow at this point because they just dont put any effort in it anymore. Just look at the ratings for the latest dlc's. 66% for Monks, 76% for Horse Lords and charlemagne, 54% for conclave, 76% for way of life. Compare that to the older dlc: 93% for sons of abraham, 85% for the old gods, 90% for sword of islam and legacy of rome


And yes, the dlc model has merits over the serial model. That stops however when the dlc model will set you back over €100, in a sale (and im only talking gameplay dlc, not even the music is included). Which is 1.5x the price of a newley released AAA title. And like shown above, not only does the dlc decreases in quality, paradox is the worst pupil of the class when it comes to discounts.

They are hurting themself with this business model by catering the few whales who buy everything on sight, and ignoring the smaller fish who see "10 dlc's of €15-20 each? nope im out".

Just take a look among your steam friends and see that while many have ck2 or eu4, a lot of them wil not have bought many expansions, which is were paradox makes it money. 51 friends of mine have CK2. 14 of them have charlemagne (almost 3y olds at this point), 12 have horse lords, 9 have conclave, similar figures for monks and reaper's due.

If you lose 75% of your customers in the follow up, you have an issue

[PikeStance]

you can wait for a long time for -66% at paradox sales. it took more than a year before Horse Lords dropped to -66%. In comparison, Age of charlemagne for Attila reached this after 6 months. the reaper's due, 9 months old has only dropped to -33%. Sure, you can wait, a lot of us like to have the feeling to play the complete game, like the devs intended

And offcours the issue is with paradox that they "patch" the game so it suits the new dlc. If you dont have it, you're outta luck. that explains partly why people keep buying them. If you wait for i to go on sale, you're two dlc behind all the time

I ma not sure what you mean you are out of luck. From the beginning I never had the most "up to date" DLC and I have not experience any problems.

I am not sure by what you mean by "complete game." I know as an enticement they do give added content to those that purchase the game early, but DLCs are added to the game. I see them as lagniappe, not as a "patch" to complete the game. The alternative is the game is published later with more content. However, this model wouldn't make sense with the ability to update games online. CA made a similar decision when it decided to create three games in one for Warhammer.

[eXistenZ]

Offcours the game is not gonna be unplayable if you dont buy the dlc, that would be criminal on par with ransom software (although the map extension RoI delivered made the game a lagfest that was only solved 6 months later...). The issue is that the updates the game receives are mainly aimed at dlc owners. thats always shines through in their free patch notes (which i find a devious name, every other compnay just names it "patch" and doesnt feel the need to highlight its free that they fix their game).

Also you cant compare it to CA, because there the dlc doesn't impact the gameplay. I never bought the steppe dlc for Rome 2, couldn't be bothered to play Horse archer faction. Whether I had it or not, made absolutly no difference when playing Rome, Carthage Suebi or Egypt campaigns. Very different story for CK2 or EU4

Would you recommend just the base game of CK2 to anyone? offcours not, you can only play a third of the map in a limited timeframe, and even then there is a lot of gameplay stripped out. Likewise, I can not recommend the current state of the game, especially not at the price it is.


When you have a bussines model where:
-your content is getting lower and lower reviews,
-you lose 75% of potential customers
-and you cant follow the competition in terms of discounts.



then maybe something is wrong with your model?

[PikeStance]

The only two games I bought before any DLC's were release are Stellaris and HOI4. I haven't even really played HOI4 and I owned it for months now. I did play Stellaris quite a bit and I enjoyed it. The DLCs actually do not appeal to me. The other games I either bought the whole lot (Vic2) or had a significant number of DLCs already released in part of the packet (EU4 and CK2). I haven't noticed anything crazy in the game, but I am sure I do not play it as much as you.

As far as their business model, I think we agree. However, I have to question whether or not the their business model is bad if the price of the DLC has gone up. Someone is still buying it at full price.

[herne_the _hunter]

TBH you don't need to get every piece of dlc for CK2 most of the good stuff is released in the accompaning free patch. You can always revert to an earlier patch if something doesn't agree with you. Thouigh congratulations to those that have bought every dlc regardless as you have financed all the nice free patches.

Would I recomend the base game? Yes I would. In CK1 you couldn't without modding you couldn't play as pagan or Muslim dynasties. The CK2 base game is pretty much focused on christian dynasties with exclusion to any republics.
Just a reminder that if playing multiplayer you use all the dlc the host has.

(For me the first two dlc i got were Sword of Islam and Old Gods gives access to most of the map when I got CK2 on a sale. A few weeks later with another sale added Legacy of Rome, Republic and Sons of Abraham. Abit overkill but if it wasn't on sale I wouldn't have got it. I don't feel I'm missing much with just this amount of dlc)

Honestly if you've got EU4 the converter is the only dlc that is a must have. Closely followed by some of the portrait packs as they do make a differrence.
In short the only essential dlc you need outside any expansions.

[lucamafra]

Well, I get both arguments; but the essential to me is that I wish to play the game and would never buy every DLC, just a few, the most essential — especially in regards to mods. I realise there will be quite some time before they go on sale, but patience is a virtue, isn't it? =P

Since I am kind of addicted to modding my games, I don't think the core of the experience would come from the vanilla game + DLCs; especially with the ability to move back a few patches in order to get mod compatibility. I'm in no way a completionist and don't really mind if I don't get the "complete" experience because I don't own every DLC they release. (To be honest, nowadays it is quite rare for me to even finish some games... even with Total War titles, there is a point where I had my share of fun and end up abandoning the campaign and starting a new one. So I don't really mind all the potential unbalances and what nots from not having such and such DLC).

[Mike Louis]

I prefer Paradox's present DLC based model over their old expansion based model in that while I have to pay $15-$20 per major DLC, in exchange more patches are produced which in turn open up more modding tools for the modders. Had Paradox kept to the expansion based model, stuff like the Enatic (female only) and Enatic Cognatic (female before male) gender succession laws that are deactivated in vanilla, the ability to use female commanders, and the divine blood mechanics would've never been made available. Also major mods like Game of Thrones, Warhammer, and the Elder Kings would've never caught on since they wouldn't have the modding tools available to make them polished. The reason CK2 seems to be perceived as a cash cow is because it's one of the first non MMO PC game to reinvent itself with constant content updates.

[lucamafra]

Paradox has just released a Spring Sale on their website. The CK2 Collections is with 70% off at U$40.00. (other Paradox titles are also with good discounts)

Didn't take as long as I thought. =)

pdxint.at/2pCF2eK