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Thread: Trump recently said "Korea actually used to be a part of China" ...let's examine that assertion!

  1. #21
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    The Hell called Conscription


    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeySykes View Post
    About the Han prefectures, when historians call them "colonies," its not to assert the commanderies' rule patterned Western colonialization. That would be reading the present into the past.
    General speaking it is similar as how French ruled French Algeria.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeySykes View Post
    This article offers one historian's critical examination of a populist pseudo history, circulated by nationalists worried what ancient contrivances China might appeal to, to realize their (presumed) expansionist ambitions. The author shows how ridiculous this anxiety is, toward the end of section 5 or 6 - I forget which. Anyhoo.
    I remember Beijing did try to propagandize that claim during 2010~2011 in order to prepare a possible Chinese invasion of North Korea once Kim Jong-il died and North Korea became instable. However it is not Chinese first time tries to press a land claim that lost hundreds years ago; the cause of Sui and Tang's war against Goguryeo was to reclaim Chinese sovereignty on northern part of Korean Peninsular based on Four Commanderies of Han after lose the territory three hundreds years.

    By the way Beijing also face considerable social pressure to seize Outer Manchuria back from Russia (lost during Treaty of Beijing), so it is not unique case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    There's perhaps a much stronger argument for Korea being an offshoot of Chinese civilization than Japan. However, the Japanese were recipients of aspects of Chinese culture and civilizational habits thanks to imported philosophies, ideas, technologies, and material culture from the Korean peninsula during virtually the entire course of the 1st millennium AD. For that matter there were direct Japanese borrowings of Chinese ideas and culture during China's Tang period, such as the importation of Chinese architectural styles, urban planning with city grids, pompous rituals of the imperial court, etc. Of course, the mother of all these things was perhaps the written word, since both Korea and Japan relied on Chinese characters as the basis of their own writing systems. Even their traditions of historiography mirror those of the Chinese precedents starting with Sima Qian. From Korea came the Japanese adoption of Buddhism and directly from China, Chan (or Zen) Buddhism, plus Neo-Confucianism.
    The main difference is that Japanese culture already existed when they had formal contact with Chinese, hence Chinese culture merely "enriched" the development of Japanese culture but alternate not its core value. Korean culture, on the other hand, was merely a local evolution of a well-established Chinese culture, with its core value still remain Chinese.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Realistically China will only ever exert influence or control over North Korea, although their growing trade relations with South Korea will give them some worthwhile leverage in that arena (at least as a means to temper ideas of hostility). If the two Korean nations are united, though, China will simply lose any chance to have a client state in the peninsula, at least for a generation. If the American presence relaxed or even disappeared after that point, then China could once again assert itself in the peninsula, albeit with the soft power approach.
    US has no reason to maintain its military presence on Korean Peninsula if North Korea did not exist; that however also apply on US military presence on Japan. So surely China can gain a solid foothold on Korean Peninsula, it would also face a remilitarize and nuclearize Japan - a double edge sword that Beijing does not want to face.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; April 22, 2017 at 06:08 AM. Reason: Consecutive posts merged.
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  2. #22
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Azuchi-jō Tenshu

    Default Re: Trump recently said "Korea actually used to be a part of China" ...let's examine that assertion!

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    I agree with that. It's stupid to antagonize one's allies, or create other kinds of mayhem, with carelessly choson words. I think this is a general problem with Trump, though to be fair, other leaders/heads of state have said similar things in recent years, or worse.

    Bro do you even McCune-Reischauer? Chosŏn

    Come to think of it I don't recall China ever claiming the Korean Peninsula as rightfully theirs. Their strategy there has always been to prop up a puppet regime ever since the Tang Dynasty. It just wasn't profitable to waste energy and resources trying to constantly fight those states within the Peninsula. Hence how you have states like Silla, Goryeo and Joseon supporting Chinese hegemony in Asia. This even extended to the Mongols and Manchus. More recently of course we had the Korean War and South Korea's complete inability to remain economically independent from mainland China. But not even the most propaganda addled state servant of the CCP claims that China has a current claim over Korea. Despite the fact that the PROC still makes claims of control over Taiwan and Mongolia.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

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