Medieval Lenguages in Two Sicilies

[Thanat0S]

As soon as I have notions and the informations about the languages spoken in this country, I will write them in this topic.

Stay tuned!

EDIT BY BEISS: Here are the italian subtitles. These should get you started on translation, now that you have some text to translate

[Thanat0S]

Well, I've done some researches and so I can tell you something about the languages spoken in Kingdom of Sicily!

Well you know that in 1080 Normans ruled in Southern Italy.
They were a French Family from the Normandy Region, in northern France.

So, I think that the king, the princes and the princesses must speak French.

For the clergy, you know that before the Norman conquest a lot of those territories (in the Kingdom) were in the hands of Byzantium. Then I think that priestes and bishops must speak Greek, because the mass was done with the Greek ceremony.

For the Diplomats I think that they could speak both Latin and Vulgar (Medieval Italian).

Armies and General should speak Vulgar!


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In Alternative (but with less realism) they could all speak Vulgar.

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I hope that this informations can help you! Bye!

[Beiss]

Wait a second... are the Sicilians in the game Orthodox or Catholic? A catholic priest speaking Greek sounds pretty heretic-like, to be honest.

[Thanat0S]

See this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo-A...atholic_Church

It is from wikipedia, but I can't show you my book!


What do you want to do about the language spoken by the characters?

Do you want make them all speak Vulgar or do you want to give to every social classes their proper language?

[Beiss]

I don't know. Whatever is more historically correct over the period, not just what is historically correct in 1100 AD.

[Thanat0S]

I don't know. Whatever is more historically correct over the period, not just what is historically correct in 1100 AD.

Well! Then I think that all characters could speak Vulgar!

The only that have to speak Latin/Greek are Priestes and Bishops
The Diplomats can speak both Latin and Vulgar

When you want , you can tell me when I must start to translate.
Do I need some specific tool?
Is there a guide to help me to make the translation?

Tnx!

[Beiss]

Before you start translating, I think it'd be best if we finished the MSD for the mediterraneans.

What kind of guide are you looking for?

[Thanat0S]

Before you start translating, I think it'd be best if we finished the MSD for the mediterraneans.

What is a MSD?

However: OK! I'll wait for the end of the MSD for the mediterraneans before translating into Vulgar!

What kind of guide are you looking for?

I was looking for a guide that explain me how I had to extract the sound files. But now, I already have these ones.

If you want to send me anything can help me in translating, you can do it!

Bye!

[♔ST0MPA♔]

I think that was a very good piece of research tho, I agree that for them to speak greek would make them seem orthodox. Im hoping that Milan, Venice Papal and sicilly will eventualy speak Latin.

P.S. an Idea here that will probarly be impossible. can you make it that ALL CATHOLIC priests speak latin. only the priests tho.
Mercs are speaking English btw. at least the pilgrams are. Pilgrams should definetly be speaking Latin and maybe all the crusader mercs should speak it too.

[Beiss]

It is definitely possible to make all the Catholic priests speak Latin. Priest speech is faction specific, so that's an easy fix. As for the mercs, well... ideally, they should speak the language spoken where they were recruited... which is doable, but I don't know how, exactly. It would also go way beyond what we're aiming for. If we were to start co-operating with MTR or such, then that would be something to bring up. I'd prefer this mod to continue being independent and available for all.

[♔ST0MPA♔]

It is definitely possible to make all the Catholic priests speak Latin. Priest speech is faction specific, so that's an easy fix.

Excellent, would you consider doing that?

[Shigawire]

I don't know. Whatever is more historically correct over the period, not just what is historically correct in 1100 AD.

I'm curious. What is the reason for implementing languages that project into a linear future? Is not the base starting conditions what matter? History is after all made by the player, not by a script.

[Beiss]

True, though... so what would you suggest?

[Thanat0S]

True, though... so what would you suggest?

If we have to consider the starting conditions, we have to choose this thing:

King and princesses must speak French.

Priestes and bishops must speak Latin.

Diplomats could speak both Latin and Vulgar (Medieval Italian).

Armies, Generals, Merchants, Assassins and Spies should speak Vulgar!

[Beiss]

If this is true, then this is how it should be done. Doing it this way will be no problem at all, except... well... diplomats can't speak both latin and vulgar. We'll have to pick one. Unless we let them say some things in vulgar and some in latin. Also, if the king speaks French, then all family members and generals will have to speak French, too.

[Thanat0S]

Diplomats can't speak both latin and vulgar. We'll have to pick one. Unless we let them say some things in vulgar and some in latin.

Ok! Good Idea!

Also, if the king speaks French, then all family members and generals will have to speak French, too.

Yes! You're right!

[Beiss]

But I wonder... if the King makes this great speech, he should be doing it in Vulgar, because otherwise the soldiers won't know what he's saying, which would make the speech rather... futile, don't you think? Also, were the princesses not educated in Latin before they were sent on diplomacy missions across Europe? Did they bring translators with them to help bring their message across? And did diplomats speak vulgar or latin when adressing the king of a country to establish treaties? These are all important things to consider.

For the sicilian diplomats, they could speak vulgar with the player on the campaign map, but if you are not playing the sicilians, they should speak Latin when you click on them on the map... and the same thing goes with the diplomacy window - if you are talking with a sicilian diplomat, he should be talking Latin to you.

For the sicilian princesses, they could speak French with the player on the campaign map, but if you are not playing the sicilians, they should speak Latin when you click on them on the map... and the same thing goes with the diplomacy window - if you are talking with a sicilian princess, she should be talking Latin to you.

What do you think about this solution?

So, I guess, all the text in battle_event_subtitles.txt and prebattle__speeches_subtitles.txt should be in vulgar, and all the text in diplomacy.txt and diplomacy_speech.txt should be in Latin.

[Thanat0S]

Yes, but the fact is that we can't put more then one speech for every kind of character.

The Normans arrived in Italy since little time (in 1070), so I think that they spoke French in their court.

Undoubtedly they spoke with the local people in Vulgar for making them understandable.

So, I'm a little confused, because the better choice would be to make a mix of French, Latin and Vulgar. But I don't know if it is possible!

Even if it is plausible for the gameplay make them speak all Vulgar (except Clergy and Diplomats), but we lose a little in historical accuracy! :hmmm:

[Beiss]

Yes, we can make each character speak in two different languages, but it has to depend on when they say things. For example, we can't make the diplomats speak French if we're French and Arabic if we're Arabic, but -

The characters don't use the same samples when the player clicks his own diplomats as when the player clicks someone elses diplomats.

For example, look in your M2TW\data\sounds\Voice\Human\Localized\Camp_Map folder. The samples named Italian_Diplomat_Selected* are used when you play the Sicilians and you click your own diplomats to give them orders. The samples named Italian_Diplomat_Select_Ally, Italian_Diplomat_Select_Neutral, and Italian_Diplomat_Select_Enemy are used when you are playing any other faction and click a Sicilian diplomat on the map. So you see, you can make them speak two languages. Most of the Italian_Diplomat samples are only played when you are not playing the Sicilians (these are the ones that have subtitles). The rest of the samples for the diplomats are only used when the player does something with his own diplomats, for example gives them an order.

Now, if we wanted, we could make the diplomat speak one language in Italian_Diplomat_Select_Ally_1, another language in Italian_Diplomat_Select_Ally_2, and a third language in Italian_Diplomat_Select_Ally_3. We certainly won't do this, but we could.

Also, in the current version of Xenophonia, the Sicilians are using the same samples as the other Italians, but in the final version of Xenophonia, they won't have to.

[Thanat0S]

Alright! But there is a problem:

I don't know Medieval French (and Modern one ), so we need someone who know this one.

Nevertheless I can translate into Vulgar while we wait for someone who is able to translate into Medieval French.

To the High School I also studied Latin, but I don't remember it very well.
So I beg you to forgive my errors!