Terrorist attack on British parliament

[Mithradates]

They are and they will. I am not sure how informed you are, but ISIS is losing the war, big time.

Oh, so ISIS is losing the war to them? Awesome! Would you care to source that?

I don't see any EDL or other armchair crusaders doing their bit. All they do is plant bacon on mosques for the lols and complain when they get sent down for it. These hooligans have no interest in challenging radical Islam , much more fun to gang up and kick in the head of a Kurdish asylum seeker.

Yes, all those Europeans should go there and fight ISIS to do their bit! ...why exactly?

Ergo they can't fight, if because of nothing else the EU treats those who join the conflict as criminals regardless of whose side they are on.

Yeah, they would totally fight for their country, but they cant because of the evil EU! lol ridiculous.

Or people generally, e.g Brexit or the election of trump leading to race attacks and murders. Hence my reference to the obvious culprits,hate preachers, and ithe usual nternet sites. Shut down the cause, job done.

Nah, Im pretty sure its just Islam.

I know Britain is great, but never in its history did it's Empire encompass Chechnya. you aim , yet miss the target. CK's point is obvious, the alt right justify blatant racism against certain groups, because somewhere on the planet,some white Muslims, totally unaffected by such attacks exist. It's like saying one can't be racist against black people because Chinese people are also a minority.

And when was Bosnia part of the British Empire? You know, CK's obvious point?

Funny you hadn't mentioned Hungary's attitude to gay rights, seeing that it has vetoed the extension of anti-discrimination laws aim at protecting them.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/08...n-lgbt-rights/

Getting personal, arent we?

100% of racial attacks on Muslim Britons fall on Asians , Africans and Turks. there are feck-all Chechens in the UK. Pakistani is a nationality, the are near uniformally brown .Attacks on them are always about race, we know this because Indians, particularly Sikhs get the same treatment by Islamophobic nutjobs.

Im probably misunderstanding something here, so just to make it clear: since there are virtually no non-brown muslims in the UK, every Islamophobic attack on a muslim is a racist attack, because the victim is a brown person?

[mongrel]

Oh, so ISIS is losing the war to them? Awesome! Would you care to source that?

Don't they have an up to date news service where you come from? Everyone knows that ISIS are under siege in Mosul (Iraqi forces, Kurdistsan plus allied militias and Raqqa (Syrian Democratic forces.) Srte and Palmyra have already fallen. That's not to mention the Turkish offensive. This should be common knowledge, I am surprised you have to flaunt ignorance of this.

Yes, all those Europeans should go there and fight ISIS to do their bit! ...why exactly?

Europeans in name only, they are throwbacks.

They keep boasting about fighting extremist Islam, but rarely get off their arses, tearing hijabs off passing old ladies doesn't cut it . In an ideal world alt-right armchair warriors would 'volunteer'to clear landmines or act as point when approaching enemy occupied towns. That would teach them what real people have to do to fight radical Islam.

Yeah, they would totally fight for their country, but they cant because of the evil EU! lol ridiculous.

What's ridiculous about anti-terror laws?

Nah, Im pretty sure its just Islam.

Coz Islam caused Dylam Roof to kill 9 worshippers in a Church and a Trump supporter to shoot Indians. They really don't have a news service where you come from. We know what and who radicalised Anders Breivik , he wrote pages and pages describing it. We have an idea how Islamists make improvised bombs, they can't be sourced from a book written in an era where such weapons did not exist.

And when was Bosnia part of the British Empire? You know, CK's obvious point?

Still not relevant. Same principles apply for self-evident reasons. The existence of a single white Muslim anywhere doesn't excuse a racist attack on a Pakistani, or an indian who may not actually practice any faith.


The vast majority of the population (est 3million )are either Pakistani, Gujerati, or Bangladesh. The rest are largely made of of Turks and Africans with a handful of Arabs, the latter largely concentrated in London. White Muslims exist, but he odds of any neo-nazi encountering one are practically zero, given UK demographics. It entirely possible for an Islamophobic attack to be a racist attack, for example racist language and references could be used during an assault, or a racist message talks about migration rather than religion. or , which is quite common (see Indians shot in USA thread) there being no evidence whatsoever that the victim is Muslim, their very browness prompting the attacks (or in this case murders). It really is that simple. .

[Mithradates]

Don't they have an up to date news service where you come from? Everyone knows that ISIS are under siege in Mosul (Iraqi forces, Kurdistsan plus allied militias and Raqqa (Syrian Democratic forces.) Srte and Palmyra have already fallen. That's not to mention the Turkish offensive. This should be common knowledge, I am surprised you have to flaunt ignorance of this.

So, which one of those is your "militia of significant numbers"? You know, the one which could have prevented all this at the beginning, but it didnt?

Europeans in name only, they are throwbacks.

They keep boasting about fighting extremist Islam, but rarely get off their arses, tearing hijabs off passing old ladies doesn't cut it . In an ideal world alt-right armchair warriors would 'volunteer'to clear landmines or act as point when approaching enemy occupied towns. That would teach them what real people have to do to fight radical Islam.

lol in an ideal world there would be no radical Islam to begin with.

What's ridiculous about anti-terror laws?

No EU law prevents them to go back and join the Syrian Army.

Coz Islam caused Dylam Roof to kill 9 worshippers in a Church and a Trump supporter to shoot Indians. They really don't have a news service where you come from. We know what and who radicalised Anders Breivik , he wrote pages and pages describing it. We have an idea how Islamists make improvised bombs, they can't be sourced from a book written in an era where such weapons did not exist.

Skimming through just the first three months of this years islamic terror attacks the Sehwan suicide bombing alone claimed more lives than all af your examples combined. What are you even talking about? Deliberately ignoring the obvious extreme difference in both the frequency and severity of these attacks. "just people generally" Incredible.

Still not relevant. Same principles apply for self-evident reasons. The existence of a single white Muslim anywhere doesn't excuse a racist attack on a Pakistani, or an indian who may not actually practice any faith.


The vast majority of the population (est 3million )are either Pakistani, Gujerati, or Bangladesh. The rest are largely made of of Turks and Africans with a handful of Arabs, the latter largely concentrated in London. White Muslims exist, but he odds of any neo-nazi encountering one are practically zero, given UK demographics. It entirely possible for an Islamophobic attack to be a racist attack, for example racist language and references could be used during an assault, or a racist message talks about migration rather than religion. or , which is quite common (see Indians shot in USA thread) there being no evidence whatsoever that the victim is Muslim, their very browness prompting the attacks (or in this case murders). It really is that simple. .

Oh, it is indeed entirely possible for an Islamophobic attack to be a racist attack too. So, my question was/is: Is an Islamophobic attack on a UK muslim is automatically a racist attack too? Yes or No?
Because Im starting to get this feeling that You and Copperknickers believes it is. That Islamophobia is the synonym for racism.

[mongrel]

So, which one of those is your "militia of significant numbers"? You know, the one which could have prevented all this at the beginning, but it didnt?

I have mentioned all of them.

Next you will suggest that they have to have time machines to counter their Muslamic ray guns.

lol in an ideal world there would be no radical Islam to begin with.

Nor central European fascists, although, without the latter there would be much fewer war movies.

No EU law prevents them to go back and join the Syrian Army.

British Muslims caught heading to Syria are tried and convicted, that is a fact. Im sure other EU countries do the same.

Skimming through just the first three months of this years islamic terror attacks the Sehwan suicide bombing alone claimed more lives than all af your examples combined. What are you even talking about? Deliberately ignoring the obvious extreme difference in both the frequency and severity of these attacks. "just people generally" Incredible.

Any of these happen in Britain? Have you noticed how many the Saudis have killied in Yemen lately. I haven't commented on the Russian or US bombing in Iraq/Syria*, but they are giving civilians a hiding.

* Perhaps its my inner Arthur Bomber Harris preventing me.

Oh, it is indeed entirely possible for an Islamophobic attack to be a racist attack too.

Eureka

So, my question was/is: Is an Islamophobic attack on a UK muslim is automatically a racist attack too? Yes or No?

A pity, just as I thought you were getting it. Of course not, because despite what teh internetz loonz tell you classification is based purely on evidence. I had posted the relevant guidelines in an earlier thread. The principles are straightforward enough, it depends on intent, and that is inferred by what the attackers says, or has written. Most EDL racists have poor self-control, a complete lack of internet security awareness and verbal diarrhea, so it is not too difficult to work out.

That Islamophobia is the synonym for racism.

Islamophobia is racism for pussies. This is my consistent view. I don't understand why today's white supremacists feel a need to pretend that they are right on and can never say racist things.

[nein]

Don't worry he is not a proper muslim so take it on the nose and whatnot! Better get used to it

[Copperknickers II]

No EU law prevents them to go back and join the Syrian Army.

The Syrian army has slaughtered more civilians than ISIS, they target them deliberately. And indeed as of Donald Trump's recent actions they are an active enemy of a NATO country. I can't believe you're seriously advocating for a rogue state headed by war criminals allied with the Russians, and you claim to be trying to defend European civilisation, as if ISIS are a greater threat to the EU than Russia and their allies?

Oh, it is indeed entirely possible for an Islamophobic attack to be a racist attack too. So, my question was/is: Is an Islamophobic attack on a UK muslim is automatically a racist attack too? Yes or No?

I don't differentiate between different types of hate crimes, whether you attack someone because they are brown or because they are a Muslim or because their being brown makes someone think they are a Muslim, it's still bigoted thuggery and has no earthly justification.

Because Im starting to get this feeling that You and Copperknickers believes it is. That Islamophobia is the synonym for racism.

'Racism' is increasingly a synecdoche for various kinds of ethnic bigotry, now that racists have diversified into various schools of hatred based on other things than solely skin colour. And as I explained earlier in this thread or in another thread, there's a big difference between opposition to certain elements of Islam, and maniacal and irrational Islamophobia which targets Muslims as some kind of monolithic group, rather than Islam as a religion or specific types of radical Muslim. When people on the Right start being sensible and stop with the ridiculous and counterproductive knee-jerk reactions against 1 billion people then perhaps they can expect people other than me to bother engaging with them.

Incidentally and on an unrelated albeit somewhat relevant point, I just found out that a close friend of mine was a member of the emergency service response to the terror attack at Westminster and was on the bridge in the immediate aftermath. Added to the fact I used to walk across Westminster bridge every week when I lived in London, so much so that I actually had a plan in my head for what to do if there was a terror attack since I knew it was likely to happen at some point and it would likely be somewhere I went very often. So I doubt anyone in this thread has more cause than I do to be appalled by this attack. I don't pretend to have been affected in any real way of course since people lost their lives or lost relatives and I can't imagine what that must have been like, but nevertheless finding that out about my friend made it really hit home that this wasn't just another anonymous news story.

Nevertheless it's all the more reason to defend the interests of Muslims in the UK because we are not going to be able to fight this threat unless we get Muslims on side, and the Far Right at the moment are doing everything in their power to alienate and demonise the Muslim community and thus not only cause suffering to innocent people, but also to make terrorism much more likely through alienating people based on their religion and thus strenghthening the toxic 'us vs them' divide - the only 'us vs them' is between people who think violence and persecution of innocent people is justified and between those who know it is never justified.

[Heathen Hammer]

The Syrian army has slaughtered more civilians than ISIS, they target them deliberately.

Based on what? Claims from ISIS, FSA, Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups? Soros-funded "human rights" NGOs?

I can't believe you're seriously advocating for a rogue state headed by war criminals allied with the Russians, and you claim to be trying to defend European civilisation, as if ISIS are a greater threat to the EU than Russia and their allies?

EU itself is the biggest threat to Europe.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

The Syrian army has slaughtered more civilians than ISIS, they target them deliberately. And indeed as of Donald Trump's recent actions they are an active enemy of a NATO country. I can't believe you're seriously advocating for a rogue state headed by war criminals allied with the Russians, and you claim to be trying to defend European civilisation, as if ISIS are a greater threat to the EU than Russia and their allies?



I don't differentiate between different types of hate crimes, whether you attack someone because they are brown or because they are a Muslim or because their being brown makes someone think they are a Muslim, it's still bigoted thuggery and has no earthly justification.



'Racism' is increasingly a synecdoche for various kinds of ethnic bigotry, now that racists have diversified into various schools of hatred based on other things than solely skin colour. And as I explained earlier in this thread or in another thread, there's a big difference between opposition to certain elements of Islam, and maniacal and irrational Islamophobia which targets Muslims as some kind of monolithic group, rather than Islam as a religion or specific types of radical Muslim. When people on the Right start being sensible and stop with the ridiculous and counterproductive knee-jerk reactions against 1 billion people then perhaps they can expect people other than me to bother engaging with them.

Incidentally and on an unrelated albeit somewhat relevant point, I just found out that a close friend of mine was a member of the emergency service response to the terror attack at Westminster and was on the bridge in the immediate aftermath. Added to the fact I used to walk across Westminster bridge every week when I lived in London, so much so that I actually had a plan in my head for what to do if there was a terror attack since I knew it was likely to happen at some point and it would likely be somewhere I went very often. So I doubt anyone in this thread has more cause than I do to be appalled by this attack. I don't pretend to have been affected in any real way of course since people lost their lives or lost relatives and I can't imagine what that must have been like, but nevertheless finding that out about my friend made it really hit home that this wasn't just another anonymous news story.

Nevertheless it's all the more reason to defend the interests of Muslims in the UK because we are not going to be able to fight this threat unless we get Muslims on side, and the Far Right at the moment are doing everything in their power to alienate and demonise the Muslim community and thus not only cause suffering to innocent people, but also to make terrorism much more likely through alienating people based on their religion and thus strenghthening the toxic 'us vs them' divide - the only 'us vs them' is between people who think violence and persecution of innocent people is justified and between those who know it is never justified.

Imagine the year is 1453, we are all in the city of Constantinople, I advocate that we muster as many strong men and women as are able to take up arms and defend the city, you advocate that we throw open the gates of our city and allow the Turks to take over.



Your attitude of opening the gates of European civilization is the equivalent of treason. It is impossible for European civilization to adequately defend itself unless it first silences those within the walls who advocate for the demise of European civilization.

The fifth column that is eating away the foundation of Europe, sapping its morale, weakening the moral and philosophical fiber of the civilization, has to be stifled and put to silence before Islam can be meaningfully challenged, ejected, and kept out.



It is as though the division has come under attack, many want to fight, but you [and those with your views] are trying to convince as many soldiers as possible to throw down their arms and surrender to the enemy without a fight.

The influence of ideas such as yours, on the morale of European civilization, has been poisonous.