[Preview] Hellenic Overhaul - Infantry of Macedon & Epirus

[Dresden]

Check out the Chaonon Agema from Epyrus, the three units on the right. I noticed that none of the elite Macedonian units have the virgina style helmet.

I will go back and check, probably my fault when editing the VMD files.

[KAM 2150]

With great overhaul comes great responsibility...Thanks everyone for amazing support!

Small video about the madnes we call DeI team
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kns9...ature=youtu.be

[Tenerife_Boy]

hahahahahahahaha nice vid bro

[Dresden]

I shall prepare my kentucky bourbon reserves for the coming work.

[Wolf Priest]

Come to Balkans and get Rakia, don't drink that silly stuff.

[Wolf Priest]

I also recommend Ouzo when you work on Hellenic factions. But Greece is still Balkans, so rakia will work.

[KAM 2150]

Polish alcohol is not silly But yes, I will go to Balkans this summer, I even lived for some time in Slovenia.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

hahaha great vid. mate...
Yeah we have some pretty heavy drinks around Greece. Oyzo,raki and tsipouro are some of them.
If anyone of you decide to visit some time, I'll make sure to provide you with a bottle or two.

[Avarice1987]

I Think Rome have a Big PRoblem on its South Border, if they Don't Capture Taras with a fast Coquer Attack at the Beginn on Campaign.

[Dresden]

I assume you responded to the wrong thread?

But to answer you - AI Rome is just fine - they will be scary trust me As the player, yes Rome is harder now.

[geala]

Like I said, Iphicratean Peltasts are only lose reference by the name instead of direct contunation of old Iphicratean Peltasts so they are there to show the progression and a bit of history instead of being first thureos unit before thureos reform even kicks in
We did not remove barefoot models, many units still run barefoot, only more “noble” units go all in footwear as from what I remember, footwear was pretty much a standard for infantry since Iphicrates and especially for Macedonians. Also some armours, helmets and clothing works only with certain human models : (
As for slingers, here is an example:
Trajan Column:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KkQoc5bmdd...ers_Trajan.jpg
Not sure if this one is legit or is it just showing someone using a rock in desperation:
https://imageserver.avenso.com/image...NoBorders=true
This one is also cool but I can’t find the source of it:
http://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/600x600p/...1/92819020.jpg
Although I guess we could live with worst slingers not using them. Mixed unit like in case of Psiloi Akontistai won’t work though as those without shields would still use the shield animation, which in case of Akontistai looks ok as they hold spare javelins in that hand. Anyway, I sadly lack the time to go through all slinger encounter accounts to get their descriptions right so I am both for and against their shields, maybe make their shield small and only wooden?

...

Thank you for the kind answers. I did not complain about the relation of barefooted to shoed troops in DeI, it's fine, but only that you don't use the Greek_full model for the barefooted men. It looks better than the silly Spartan or the too muscular Barbaric model for me. But ok, not that important.

The slingers: some used shields for sure. Most probably not, according to pictures and ancient literature. But I did not know that you cannot have shielded and unshielded men in one unit, so the decision to show them with shields I totally get now.

The Iphicratean peltasts: what I don't understand above all is the decision to give them javelins and show them as a kind of heavy skirmishers. Or did I misunderstand? From my experience it is nearly impossible to function as skirmisher when carrying a long spear. Nepos and Diodorus both say that Iphicrates doubled the length of the hoplite spear, so it would probably measured about 5 metres, which is in the range of the 10 to 16 cubits given as pike lengths by ancient authors. So this peltast is a hot candidate for the pike phalanx invention but not for a super-heavy psilos in my opinion.

[Maetharin]

be patient

I don´t wanna

[Jake Armitage]

Thanks guys

[NeptuneUK]

DeI team :

[KAM 2150]

Thank you for the kind answers. I did not complain about the relation of barefooted to shoed troops in DeI, it's fine, but only that you don't use the Greek_full model for the barefooted men. It looks better than the silly Spartan or the too muscular Barbaric model for me. But ok, not that important.

The slingers: some used shields for sure. Most probably not, according to pictures and ancient literature. But I did not know that you cannot have shielded and unshielded men in one unit, so the decision to show them with shields I totally get now.

The Iphicratean peltasts: what I don't understand above all is the decision to give them javelins and show them as a kind of heavy skirmishers. Or did I misunderstand? From my experience it is nearly impossible to function as skirmisher when carrying a long spear. Nepos and Diodorus both say that Iphicrates doubled the length of the hoplite spear, so it would probably measured about 5 metres, which is in the range of the 10 to 16 cubits given as pike lengths by ancient authors. So this peltast is a hot candidate for the pike phalanx invention but not for a super-heavy psilos in my opinion.

That model had to be used as Greek one did not allow for specific clothes and other stuff.

As for slingers, I guess we could go through some of them and just make the lowest slingers not use any shield so they would get unshielded slinger animation.

In case of Iphicratean Peltasts, that is how I read about and reason for which they were created (to counter Spartan Epheboi fighting as Ekdromoi, among some of the reasons) as regular skirmishers were to fragile in combat and those long spears at least gave them a chance to fend of the attacker but I did not stumble upon them being 5 m long, rather 3.5m long. If they would use 5m long pikes and fight in lose order then it would be pointless and rather increase their casuality. But anyway, like I said, Iphicratean in their name is not direct continuation of original unit, just shows a phase as Peltasts were lighter troops originaly and later went to get heavier, whole being tasked with stuff like storming the walls, something which lightly armed and spear using unit would have a hard time.

[gerfand]

can you put a Image of the Long Pikes side by side w/ smaller pikes?

[KAM 2150]

Sure:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Fun fact, those small pikes are the vanilla one, which were used in DeI until 1.2 release too.

[Dresden]

I think we actually have 4 pike sizes now in the mod, some are being used for cavalry also. Will have to wait for that preview

[KYREAPER]

I think we actually have 4 pike sizes now in the mod, some are being used for cavalry also. Will have to wait for that preview

No, give me now or else. Dont play these games with my heart

[Zirteh]

So, when is this update coming live to our Rome 2 engine ? XD