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Thread: Eurocrisis in South European angle

  1. #101

    Default Re: Eurocrisis in South European angle

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    You can't have a 0.5 growth when unemployment is high.
    And I agree, but you're not gonna get spontaneous job growth from the private sector by having low tax regimes. It just doesn't happen. Nor do high taxes cause massive tax flight, but they do increase government revenue. The answer is simple, if you're pissed about unemployment, lobby Government to hire people. Because Vodafone and Renault Nissan aren't going to do it. Don't like large public sectors? Then wait for the economy to re-adjust itself which is painful and you're seeing exactly what Krugmanites said would happen. Low growth rates, persistent unemployment, and angry rhetoric.

    And look, an EU exit, is not the end of the world, despite how I phrase my dislike for such an option. It can certainly be done, but you know what? I wanna see plans and serious policy proposals about what will happen and what the leadership is going to do next. I know you're all watching the Brexit mess, boy that sure is a coordinated affair.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Eurocrisis in South European angle

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    And I agree, but you're not gonna get spontaneous job growth from the private sector by having low tax regimes.
    Hm, why? Low taxes are normally very good for business, that's all they want actually. That's why they move to Dubai. No income tax to pay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    It just doesn't happen. Nor do high taxes cause massive tax flight, but they do increase government revenue. The answer is simple, if you're pissed about unemployment, lobby Government to hire people. Because Vodafone and Renault Nissan aren't going to do it. Don't like large public sectors? Then wait for the economy to re-adjust itself which is painful and you're seeing exactly what Krugmanites said would happen. Low growth rates, persistent unemployment, and angry rhetoric.
    Vodafone and Renault Nissan will and actually do lobby the government and with more resources than the average citizen could ever hope to have, hence more efficiently; which is why we are in the we are in right now.

    I can give you an example of this. Before we forced Renzi, globalist shill, out of the government in December, this retard laxened data privacy laws. Result? In the last year, Vodafone and the other telecom companies started selling the phone numbers to marketing companies, so that they now spam you with calls 24/7 with ''epic offers that you'll never receive again until 30 minutes later''; and of course if you pick up the call they milk your phone credit dry. We have come to the point that if you don't know the number who's calling in Italy, don't pick it up and of course everyone is pissed off.

    And the economy won't even readjust itself as long as governments bow down to counterproductive austerity measures. It'll keep remaining low growth, more and more people giving up on the job market and again even if it doesn't show in the unemployment or it shows as a drop in it, it also shows in the elections as in '' all''.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    And look, an EU exit, is not the end of the world, despite how I phrase my dislike for such an option. It can certainly be done, but you know what? I wanna see plans and serious policy proposals about what will happen and what the leadership is going to do next. I know you're all watching the Brexit mess, boy that sure is a coordinated affair.
    The funny thing about Brexit is that everyone focuses too much on the lack of plan of the UK, but ignores the fact that Brussels doesn't have a coherent strategy either. You have the ideologists like Juncker and Verhoftadt pushing for a bad deal to the UK, but their multinational and financial backers don't want that.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; April 27, 2017 at 02:04 AM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Eurocrisis in South European angle

    @Sukiyama

    I think you probably misunderstood me. I wasn't complaining about slow growth (better than contraction) in itself, but saying that Europe at the moment is full of problems and other crisis that a slow growth cannot numb or halt. Perhaps not even a medium/fast growth could.

    I live in a literal epicenter of a case of seeing contraction vs slow growth even in daily life, it's how it has gone in this country by now. Yes slow growth is still fairly better, but the stories one keeps hearing about what goes up in the north continent becomes worrying.

    European Crisis no longer economical or financial (assuming it ever was just that).
    Last edited by fkizz; April 27, 2017 at 04:07 PM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  4. #104

    Default Re: Eurocrisis in South European angle

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Hm, why? Low taxes are normally very good for business, that's all they want actually. That's why they move to Dubai. No income tax to pay.
    Correlational data is less than unanimous on this issue.
    Vodafone and Renault Nissan will and actually do lobby the government and with more resources than the average citizen could ever hope to have, hence more efficiently; which is why we are in the we are in right now.

    I can give you an example of this. Before we forced Renzi, globalist shill, out of the government in December, this retard laxened data privacy laws. Result? In the last year, Vodafone and the other telecom companies started selling the phone numbers to marketing companies, so that they now spam you with calls 24/7 with ''epic offers that you'll never receive again until 30 minutes later''; and of course if you pick up the call they milk your phone credit dry. We have come to the point that if you don't know the number who's calling in Italy, don't pick it up and of course everyone is pissed off.

    And the economy won't even readjust itself as long as governments bow down to counterproductive austerity measures. It'll keep remaining low growth, more and more people giving up on the job market and again even if it doesn't show in the unemployment or it shows as a drop in it, it also shows in the elections as in '' all''.
    Which is what I'm saying, if unemployment makes you angry, force the Government to hire people. The private sector isn't going to spontaneously grow and hire them for you. Growth and expansion is always slow unless there is massive injection of capital from somewhere involved. Which is why lending is important...

    The idea that exiting the EU, getting your own currency, and having low taxes is going to save the economy is flawed. There are so many economic factors involved with that it'll be hard to predict winners and losers if EU breaks up.

    The funny thing about Brexit is that everyone focuses too much on the lack of plan of the UK, but ignores the fact that Brussels doesn't have a coherent strategy either. You have the ideologists like Juncker and Verhoftadt pushing for a bad deal to the UK, but their multinational and financial backers don't want that.
    Well yes, but my main point was that you don't really want a mess like Brexit if you can avoid it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    @Sukiyama

    I think you probably misunderstood me. I wasn't complaining about slow growth (better than contraction) in itself, but saying that Europe at the moment is full of problems and other crisis that a slow growth cannot numb or halt. Perhaps not even a medium/fast growth could.

    I live in a literal epicenter of a case of seeing contraction vs slow growth even in daily life, it's how it has gone in this country by now. Yes slow growth is still fairly better, but the stories one keeps hearing about what goes up in the north continent becomes worrying.

    European Crisis no longer economical or financial (assuming it ever was just that).
    I see. Social problems in Europe are currently my most significant concern as well. They are the driving force in some of the fear tactics we are seeing from both sides. Like I've said before, if you give the economy stable jobs and income everybody will probably tolerate the current social upheavals. Unfortunately that's not the case and things are getting pretty dicey. Oh well, at least Europe is still a better Democracy than US.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Eurocrisis in South European angle

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Correlational data is less than unanimous on this issue.
    It's one of those topics where economists are unable to be unbiased about so I'm going to leave them out.
    I focus rather on the fact that business owners flock where taxes are low.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Which is what I'm saying, if unemployment makes you angry, force the Government to hire people. The private sector isn't going to spontaneously grow and hire them for you. Growth and expansion is always slow unless there is massive injection of capital from somewhere involved. Which is why lending is important...

    The idea that exiting the EU, getting your own currency, and having low taxes is going to save the economy is flawed. There are so many economic factors involved with that it'll be hard to predict winners and losers if EU breaks up.
    There are a number of problems that I mentioned:
    1) The regulatory context, Basel II rules basically favour lending to big corporations over small and medium, which require higher liquidity for the bank and higher interests to pay for the company, thus banks lend only to big corps, but big corps use that money to buy back their stocks to push it higher. This is why QE in Europe is such a failure. I recall reading a paper that points out that while small enterprises are the most risky, medium ones are the least risky of the group, so the regulatory environment is nonsense.
    2)Keynesians rightfully point out that we have we have a low demand problem. Low demand doesn't drive prices, which is why inflation in Europe was absent for the last couple of years. We have inflation right now entirely due to the fact that oil prices doubled in the last 6 months, thus energy prices are up. For the rest, it's still non-existant. And if prices don't grow, then business don't hire. Note that austerity policies are what drive demand down.
    3)Consequence of the above, there's the issue that governments can't just create jobs randomly, they must be productive. Indeed they aren't doing that at all, they are doing the opposite, they chose austerity because they are globalist elite governments and the very same globalist elite wants those government bonds to be repaid back, hence austerity.

    So we have a private sector unable to create growth, because of the banking sector and a public sector unable to do the same.... again because of the financial sector, buy side this time, the hedge funds and similar. Either path you take, the problem ends up being the financial world, which is why I advocate returning to national currencies. The financial world, being right now the number one problem preventing growth can't be left with the enormous power of monetary creation. We need a way that allows countries to inject money in the economy without going through the financial sector.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; Yesterday at 12:10 PM.

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