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Thread: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

  1. #1
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    SO it looks like Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor is getting a sequel. It was a pretty good game, I spent plenty of time grooming nemeses . Might make some Tolkien purists mad, but whatever.



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    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Might make some Tolkien purists mad, but whatever.
    I'm not something like a Tolkien purist, although have read quite some of his books since my youth, and saw all films, but indeed, the very free adaption of this production/series keeps me away ... (few days ago stumbled about the current announcement, and the former title).
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Terrible name

    Anyway, the first game was good, but I feel like people praise it for one thing only; the nemesis system. Everything else just ranged from passable to okay, with the story lingering in blah why is this even here. It's obviously only a trailer, so impossible to say what it actually plays like, but I'm disappointed they seem to be making a big deal of the story they are incapable of writing. "Yeah we forge a second ring, and make a load of orcs our slaves and fight Sauron in Mordor". Like what, why can't you just be the terrorghost scaring the living whooper out of orcs named Ratbag?

    Afraid the story is going to take this from a fun 7/10 Batman clone to unbearable.
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    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    I didnt even find the Nemesis system that good. You are quite far in the game before you can take real advantage of it, and it mostly sticked with me because having captains randomly walk in while doing a mission is super annoying and happened way too many times.

    They made a terribly boring story in a Tolkien setting (which is somesort of an achievement in itself). The game was pretty ok, but not as exceptional as they made it out to be, and the gameplay definitly asnt, as it was just AC and Batman smashed together, and not even attempting to hide it.

    I bought it in a sale for a tenner, will maybe do the same for this

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    Shankbot de Bodemloze's Avatar From the Writers Study!
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    I think the best way to approach is not to view it as a LotR game... if that is at all possible. I saw the forging of a 2nd ring and just had to turn off my LotR perspective at that point.
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    Noif de Bodemloze's Avatar The Protector of Art
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    I liked new nemesis and massive fortress battle. Riding on flying dragon was also interesting. I will look forward, but I hope and worry that boss battle are better this time, not only few click long duel.

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    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    No, it's no LotR game, rather it's a "paralell universe What If for the fun of it".
    Never played the original game (even if I owned it for some time now), but checking out its plot long ago, I found the Celebrimbor aspect an admirably creative idea, deviant and ill-fitting concerning its sources, sure, but intriguing and fresh in its self-contained universe.

    This new game is clearly taking what it had and runs with it, haha.
    However, and I have no clue whether its intentional, or aware (not surprised if not) of that, it has a root in JRR conceptually [having a Master Ring to fight Sauron]. Looking at the gameplay trailer yesterday I suddenly said to myself "Oh, you're a better Saruman!"
    For those who do not know, Saruman in the books was traitor not just only to the Free Peoples he was supposed to aid, but also to Sauron. The White Wizard wanted the One Ring for himself, and while in name a subject to the Dark Lord he still during LotR counter-acted Sauron.
    ...[Saruman] study the lore of the Rings of Power, their making and their history.
    ... Thus the Wise were troubled, but none as yet perceived that [Saruman] had turned to dark thoughts and was already a traitor in heart: for he desired that he and no other should find the Great Ring, so that he might wield it himself and order all the world to his will. Too long he had studied the ways of. Sauron in hope to defeat him, and now he envied him as a rival rather than hated his works.
    - ca 150 years prior to LotR, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

    [Gandalf retell:] 'But I rode to the foot of Orthanc, and came to the stair of Saruman and there he met me and led me up to his high chamber. He wore a ring on his finger. ...'"...For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours! "
    `He came and laid his long hand on my arm. "And why not, Gandalf? " he whispered. "Why not? The Ruling Ring? If we could command that, then the Power would pass to us. That is in truth why I brought you here. For I have many eyes in my service, and I believe that you know where this precious thing now lies. Is it not so? Or why do the Nine ask for the Shire, and what is your business there? " As he said this a lust which he could not conceal shone suddenly in his eyes.
    ' "Saruman," I said, standing away from him, "only one hand at a time can wield the One, and you know that well, so do not trouble to say we! ..."'
    .. I looked on it and saw that, whereas [Isengard's vale] had once been green and fair, it was now filled with pits and forges. Wolves and orcs were housed in Isengard, for Saruman was mustering a great force on his own account, in rivalry of Sauron and not in his service yet. ...'
    - FotR; The Council of Elrond
    Now, in the Foreword to LotR Tolkien firmly denounce the proposition that his creation is an allegory (an instant, and seemingly eternal, accusation which he deeply disliked). He also make an interesting remark, that had LotR been an allegory the plot would likely taken other forms:
    Quote Originally Posted by FotR
    ... Its sources are things long before in mind, or in some cases already written, and little or nothing in it was modified by the war that began in 1939 or its sequels.
    The real war does not resemble the legendary war in its process or its conclusion. If it had inspired or directed the development of the legend, then certainly the Ring would have been seized and used against Sauron; he would not have been annihilated but enslaved, and Barad-dûr would not have been destroyed but occupied. Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth.
    Not a new Master Ring, but none the less, a Great Ring made to grasp control of the world.
    Elsewhere JRR however commented on what could perhaps been done, had someone powerful enough (of whom Celebrimbor, had he lived, ought been accounted as he had the Three originally) got the One Ring in the Third Age:
    ... Sauron would not have feared the Ring [worn by Frodo]! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of 'mortals' no one, not even Aragorn.
    ... Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form.
    In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve.
    In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated.
    - Letter 246
    So, at end, this game should not be called a LotR game proper and for sure not be mistaken for something loyal to the lore.
    But at its core are ideas touched on by JRR, and for the sake of this game's universe it's neat; I hope they make a fun game out of it, for the sake of its players. ^^
    Last edited by Ngugi; March 09, 2017 at 11:21 AM.

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  8. #8
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Was not interested in the last one and not in this one either.

    Again you are stuck playing a dumb ghostly ranger or such.. why not just a normal human? Or maybe a mage or elf if they want to add some special abilities?
    And again stuck in the most boring looking part of Middle earth: Mordor. Surrounded just by trolls, orcs and goblins. Boring.

    Middle Earth is a very beautifull and varied world. Why stick with just the ugliest part of it?

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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Quote Originally Posted by Inhuman One View Post
    Was not interested in the last one and not in this one either.

    Again you are stuck playing a dumb ghostly ranger or such.. why not just a normal human? Or maybe a mage or elf if they want to add some special abilities?
    And again stuck in the most boring looking part of Middle earth: Mordor. Surrounded just by trolls, orcs and goblins. Boring.

    Middle Earth is a very beautifull and varied world. Why stick with just the ugliest part of it?
    To be fair Nurn in the first game is very pretty, lush and green. It's "just" the first half or so of the game that is grey and muddy-Mordor, and even then I wouldn't call it ugly.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    I enjoyed the first game despite being not very keen on the Mordor, which was pretty much a featureless wasteland, or NPCs largely being limited to Orcs, who are too stereotypical in LOTR (though the game managed to make some of the Orcs interesting).

    The title of this sequel does not contain the word Mordor. So I was hoping that the game will take the Nemesis system outside Mordor, and we will see a Total War / Mount & Blade style dynamic campaign featuring various warring factions of Men, Elves, Dwarves and Orcs vying for the control of Middle Earth. Characters will rise and fall. TalioBrimbor will use the power of the new Ring to bring an end to the conflict, through full-scale battles and individual quests. Whether that end is pacification or destruction, or if it is cemented by brutality or benevolence, and the status quo post bellum will be determined by the player's actions and choices.

    As usual, it was a mistake to expect too many new ideas from a video game sequel. The siege and followers are nice add-ons. Those are actually essential intermediary steps towards the above. You can not have factional warfare without armies and sieges. May be the next game will expand the campaign and setting.
    Last edited by prithupaul; March 10, 2017 at 02:54 AM.

  11. #11
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Well they showed Minas Tirith, maybe the bad ending will involve conquering Osgiliath then Minas Tirith once you've taken over Mordor
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    Comrade_Rory's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Yeah, it looks like Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul are on the map.
    Even though I am a Tolkien purist, I did really enjoy Shadow of Mordor and seeing Minas Morgul alone is enough to get me excited.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Minas Tirith is in the map, yes. But it may not a be a playable region, just part of surrounding areas they may have modeled.

    And also if it were playable, that does not necessarily mean we will get Men of Gondor as part of our armies.

    I am just not very interested to root for Orcs in a Middle-earth setting. In the first game the Orcs were either enemies to kill, or mind-controlled pawns. But leading an army of Orcs... rewarding Orc chieftains... urghh.

  14. #14
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Yeah I have no interest in leading orcs and trolls either. They look silly with the blue and gold.

    Might have worked better to have such a struggle in the lands of men because they actually change sides from good and evil. Orcs are always evil.

    Might have been better to use the lands of the Haradrim and Rhun for this, with no mind controll garbage or ghosts but just playing a local guy who aims to move controll of those lands away from Mordor's influence and back to the people.

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    Almogaver's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Just do a Middle-Earth RPG already! jeez...
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  16. #16
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Well there was war in the north which was quite a nice hack and slash game, but very linear, not that long and the story wasnt very interesting.
    It did really feel like lord of the rings though, it captured the atmosphere quite well and the combat was very enjoyable.

    It was a team of an elf wizard who could fight with staff and sword, a dwarf warrior and a human ranger. I believe they had other weaponry but had more available. Ranger was best at range.

    Still, it would be neat to see an open world RPG similar to Skyrim set in lord of the rings. Obviously not in all of it, but they could go with a chunk of middle earth that could show some nice variety. Maybe a part that covers Isengard, Lorien and Rohan.
    You could be an elf, dwarf or human of various classes, someone who holds no allegiance to anyone, and you could side with either Isengard or the free people. The focus could be on the events of the two towers, with the siege of helm's deep as the grand finale. You'd just be a soldier in this conflict and could join either side.
    And if succesfull they could always make a sequel that covers the Gondor, Osgiliath and Minas Morgul region and lets you be part of the events of return of the king.

  17. #17
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Give me a game where I can make Hobbits rise up (figuratively) and take over the world and I'll be happy
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  18. #18
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Well Age of Wonders 3 has chubby halflings, they seem to fit the style of hobbits quite well. You can even make your own halfling leader for them that can be a warlord, wizard, rogue, druid, engineer, priest or necromancer.
    And any choice gives you some unique units too! Like halfling crusaders as the priest, halfling musketeers as the engineer, halfling apprentices as the wizard, halfling berserkers as the warlord, etc.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War



    Looks like we will have human armies fighting for / with us as well, including proper NPCs. My interest in the game is greatly compounded.

  20. #20
    gastovski's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Middle-Earth: Shadows of War

    Nice, after watching the video and seeing these horrific animations, i'm gonna skip this joke.

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