Upgradeable Legionnaires

[mrsmile1015]

It breaks my heart everytime I have to disband my gold chevron legionnaires for fresh rookie veteran troops. Why are veteran soldiers simply recruited out of the ether? It would make much more sense if normal legionnaires earned their way to the top. After their first gold chevron, they become upgradable to veteran legionnaires. When they hit 3 gold chevrons, they make it into the praetorian guards. Wouldn't it be incredibly satisfying watching your most used soldiers evolve into elite super troops.

[mrsmile1015]

Woops the title is incorrect! How can i edit it?

[Dresden]

I can edit it for you, I dont think you can edit posts before 25 post count. What do you want the title to say?

In terms of veterancy, the chevrons already represent that with the stat increases. The veterans recruited are supposed to represent those that re-enlist or are recalled to active service. I understand your idea, though, as I think it has been requested quite a few times in the past. I am not really sure if you can tie unit upgrades to xp level.

[Kolaris8472]

As far as I'm aware you can't link an upgrade to an experience level like that.

I get where KAM et company are coming from, not wanting veteran Hastati to outperform Principes. But with this timescale I don't think experience level represents the skill of individual soldiers as much as the legacy and leadership of the company, maniple, cohort etc. Similar to army traditions.

I prefer the VV approach myself, where experience is extremely slow to accumulate but very noticeable. Always room for more submods!

[Maetharin]

IMO there's actually nothing wrong with experienced Hastati outperforming fresh Principes.
Sure in theory Principes should have more experience, but when has anything ever gone completely by theory?

If those Principes are fresh from their farms, why would they outperform Hastati who have recent experience?
Fresh Principes would have the experience they got from their stint as Hastati.
Add to that that they were older and had time to gather a little rust.

The same goes for Veteran Legionaries, they should outperform fresh Legionaries, but not experienced and battle hardened troopers

[geala]

Such veterans were experienced and battle hardened. Why would they otherwise be held in seemingly high regard? Some evocati even had centurion status.

The TW system cannot really well modell the Roman pre-Marian (or better pre-Augustus) army which was not an army of professionals. There were no standing legions where fresh recruits were brought to a higher level in peace times. The results were unexperienced armies at the beginning of wars. Only during longer war periods the legionaries became quasi-professionals, f.e. in the Punic wars or during external campaigns or the long civil wars.

In TW soldiers don't get older and units don't lose experience. It is already very nice that units lose chevrons when replenishing after losses but actually all non-professional units should get an experience wipe from time to time.

[mrsmile1015]

Thanks Dresden! Could you rename it Upgradable Legionnaires please.

[Augustusng]

In the example of the Evocati, those are veterans who had already completed their military service, but have been "called back" (literal meaning of Evocati), so I guess it's plausible that they'd take some time to get used to fighting again. Of course, there isn't much evidence for these guys fighting in whole units like in the game though.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

I can edit it for you, I dont think you can edit posts before 25 post count. What do you want the title to say?

In terms of veterancy, the chevrons already represent that with the stat increases. The veterans recruited are supposed to represent those that re-enlist or are recalled to active service. I understand your idea, though, as I think it has been requested quite a few times in the past. I am not really sure if you can tie unit upgrades to xp level.

Script extender.
add .dll with your set of instruction.

[theLuchii]

What if you could create a new veteran population class within the existing system? I don't know if it's even possible, but it would be cool if implemented correctly. My idea is that certain things would increase veteran population growth in a province, while other factors would detract from it, and certain units, such as veteran legionnaires, Principes, and Triarri would be recruited from this population, maybe with some population taken from 1st and 2nd class citizens as well to show wealth.

For increasing, having a barracks in the province would give a relatively small veteran population growth increase, while recruiting a "green" unit such as Hastati or regular Legionnaires would provide a growth increase for a set amount of turns, and recruiting a unit of Principes and Triarri would provide decreasing growth bonuses to simulate them exiting their prime and eligibility for service. Disbanding a veteran unit in a province would also instantly increase the veteran population, and if it were possible, a non-veteran unit would also cause an immediate increase based on some value, like years in service, battles fought, or unit experience. If you wanted to go a level deeper, you could also limit the recruitment of certain veteran units like the Evocata Germanica would only become available after you have taken provinces from a Germanic culture, or maybe if you had been at war with them/fought a certain number of battles with them (this could operate somewhat like the triumph mechanic, however that works). Also, armies with high military tradition levels could provide a passive increase to veteran population in their province, and if a high level army is disbanded it could provide a small empire-wide boost the veteran population growth. Also, there could be a small empire-wide veteran population growth effect dependent on how many wars you are fighting at a time, maybe also dependent on you sharing a border with the hostile faction. Also, expansion would also mark an increase in veteran population.

On the other hand, obviously recruiting veteran units would result in an immediate decrease in the veteran population (but would still provide a small bonus to growth afterwards). Also, there could be a transfer of veteran population into the three civilian classes at a rate proportional to the ratio of veterans in the province to civilians. If your country doesn't share any borders with warring factions, your veteran population would decline over time, as well as some set decrease modelling how old veterans die off or get too old over time. To model how the Romans used more auxiliaries as their empire grew, there could be a negative effect of imperium on your veteran population growth/decline.

I don't know how much of this is possible at all, but I feel like it could mesh well with the current population system and really give you a feeling of starting with a populace that is inexperienced military-wise and only being able to recruit lower-level troops, but over time and through conquest you can create increasingly elite troops as a result of your military campaigns and their experience.

[Meraun]

Isnt a Golden Chevron Cohort much better than any veterarn Unit anyway? I never Disaband them.

Waht i woud like to see is the ability to upgrade my Legionaries to their armored counterpart.

[Wolf Priest]

Since this is wishing for impossible anyway, I would like to see abilities as something unlocked with experience, things like snipe, deploy anywhere, disciplined etc. maybe even stamina upgrade. That way lowly peasant archer stays lowly peasant archer, but knows how stay hidden, veteran swordsmen learn how to conserve strength, legionaries learn how to ambush effectively, and hoplites learn how to rapidly advance. Possibilities would be endless. Don't know what of 3 ways would be best, but they are:
1.They unlock ability on certain level, you can't pick it, its defined in game (for example 2 units of Peltasts get rapid reload at level 4).
2.They unlock ability on certain level, you pick it, instead defined in game (for example 2 units of Peltasts at level 4 get ability, you chose to give Rapid reload to one and Hide(everywhere) to other).
3.They unlock ability on certain level, and its randomly given (for example 2 units of Peltasts level up at same time, at level 4 get ability, one gets disciplined and other gets scare (everyone)).

[JCB206]

That would be amazing Wolf Priest. Too bad...

[mrsmile1015]

Isnt a Golden Chevron Cohort much better than any veterarn Unit anyway? I never Disaband them.

Waht i woud like to see is the ability to upgrade my Legionaries to their armored counterpart.

I upgrade to veterans and train them up in imperator Augustus as Anthony and Lepidus fields ridiculous amounts of them as well.

[Wolf Priest]

That would be amazing Wolf Priest. Too bad...

I'm glad someone liked it.

[antred]

Thanks Dresden! Could you rename it Upgradable Legionnaires please.

Actually, if you're going to rename it, call it "Upgradable Legionaries" as a Legionnaire is something different entirely.

[antred]

I have a related request. It bugs me a lot that later barracks allow training but not RE-TRAINING of more powerful melee units than earlier tiers. I'm not talking about newer models, I'm talking about actual melee attack / defense bonuses that are applied only to newly raised units, while already existing units cannot benefit from this bonus. Basically, you have to disband your existing units and then recruit new ones.

[Kolaris8472]

I thought that too, but after closely looking for a difference between old and new units I couldn't find one. Can anyone weigh in on whether bonuses for "newly trained units" works as stated?

[Augustusng]

It does work, but we've removed most of those bonuses already in 1.2. I'm of the opinion that we should remove all of them (and I'll make a submod for that when 1.2 releases), but we'd have to think of something to do with the level 4 barracks and similar buildings.

[Dresden]

Most should be removed I think? Its xp bonuses and armor/weapon bonuses for the most part now.