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Thread: The GOP Healthcare Bill

  1. #161

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by God-Emperor of Mankind View Post
    I see that Trump is taking pointers from the swedish goverment in that Trump expects the opposition to vote for his bills even tho they disagree with it.
    Doesn't work like that Trump, if you want their votes you need to make a deal because they are not in any way or form obligated to vote for your bills.
    But seeing as republicans controls everything, blaming the Democrats seems insulting to anyone with a brain since they would know that they aren't to blame for this but other republicans.
    Makes me wonder how many setbacks he will suffer before he will blame the actual culprits, the republicans.
    A lot of what Trump says and does should be insulting to anyone with a brain. Yet it got him elected.

  2. #162
    Harith's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Well folks, Trump voters, unsurprisingly, think it ain't Donnie's fault the healthcare bill couldn't pass:

    The day after the flaming out of U.S. President Donald Trump's first major legislative initiative, his supporters across America were lashing out - at conservatives, at Democrats, at leaders of his Republican Party in Congress.

    Only Trump himself was spared their wrath.

    Many voters who elected him appeared largely willing to give him a pass on the collapse of his campaign promise to overhaul the U.S. healthcare system, stressing his short time in office.

  3. #163

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harith View Post
    Well folks, Trump voters, unsurprisingly, think it ain't Donnie's fault the healthcare bill couldn't pass:
    Or they are awfully silent.

  4. #164

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    That's what scapegoats are for.

    And whipping boys.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  5. #165

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Costin_Razvan View Post
    You don't pass a trillion dollar infrastructure bill overnight. It's being worked on but will take time. They first have to figure where they'll spend the money and how.
    You don't bring up things to the House for a vote without securing them first. The ACA took years to craft, modify, and finally pass. You think they passed it with no issues? The ACA is riddled with holes and compromises, the battle-scars of experienced politicians at work. The ACA is a case-study of how to draft legislation on a hotly-contested topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggsimmonds View Post
    I'll admit, I was following Ryan with interest. Outside of his stances on a handful of issues I thought he was someone I could support. Even had him on my shortlist of presidential nominees I could vote for prior to the election.

    But I do think the myth of who he is and what he could do is busted. He is like that guy many of us had in our college classes. He talks a good game (because he only regurgitates what is in the textbook) but get past that and is simple and ineffective.

    And of course Trump takes his share of blame. Outside of a few issues (immigration) he may be one of the most hands off presidents in recent memory. How much input did he have in this legislation?

    Finally lets forget the actual policy for a minute. The beginning of this administration is almost one strategic blunder after the other. So far this is the best example of how experience matters. The president may be able to get by with less than ideal experience, but when you surround him with people as inexperienced as him?

    First move should have been an infrastructure bill. I thought that was obvious
    Paul Ryan is nothing but the stereotype of a crooked, incompetent politician. He knows how to win votes, stir up resentment, and strawmanning the debate. The last seven years have thoroughly proven that he does not know anything about policy making. Where are the results of his decade and a half in House politics?

    Let's not even get started about the 6 pages covering lottery winners. If this is Ryan's policy crafting then it is an absolute joke.

  6. #166

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harith View Post
    Well folks, Trump voters, unsurprisingly, think it ain't Donnie's fault the healthcare bill couldn't pass:
    If Donald runs under a sprinkler, Ryan and McConnell would get wet
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    You don't bring up things to the House for a vote without securing them first. The ACA took years to craft, modify, and finally pass. You think they passed it with no issues? The ACA is riddled with holes and compromises, the battle-scars of experienced politicians at work. The ACA is a case-study of how to draft legislation on a hotly-contested topic.



    Paul Ryan is nothing but the stereotype of a crooked, incompetent politician. He knows how to win votes, stir up resentment, and strawmanning the debate. The last seven years have thoroughly proven that he does not know anything about policy making. Where are the results of his decade and a half in House politics?

    Let's not even get started about the 6 pages covering lottery winners. If this is Ryan's policy crafting then it is an absolute joke.
    Well it seems he doesn't really know how to win votes either.

  7. #167

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    He certainly knows how to get re-elected.

  8. #168

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    He certainly knows how to get re-elected.
    Ryan's never been Speaker when the Republicans were in the driver's seat. Hell the last time the Republicans were in any semblance of control of the government they weren't so broken up into factions(Hastert was Speaker). Boehner and Ryan were mostly leading a resistance and could afford to just pass a straight up repeal and someone would just block or veto. Once your citizens are on the line though things get strangely tougher. Ryan's district, odds are, will keep liking him. Congress as a whole is one of the most disliked things in America. Congressmen themselves, however have to do a very pisspoor job to get voted out of office in their own district or state. Will the House keep making him Speaker? Who knows. Will the Republicans bother negotiating even with themselves in a setting designed from the ground up for negotiation and deal-making instead of demanding from the beginning a repeal(or whatever is next on the list)? Again, who knows.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  9. #169

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    Whoever is calling Eddie Lampert a self-made man who came from a working class background...

    His father was senior/managing partner in a prestigious NYC law firm.

    Lampert is also Jewish and was given about $27 million in "start up money" by a fellow Jewish man, a businessman/investor. There is certain social capital in some communities, shared religion, fraternity, secret society, etc., that should not be under-estimated. An elite Jewish businessman might help out a young Jewish man from his business/religious circle who wants to get started.

    It can work the same way for Freemasons, and other societies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post

    Quite frankly, the rich aren't interested in denying wealth to the poor. What they are so resentful of is taxes. Because they are so bent on "protecting" their wealth when the entire basis of their relative wealth are contributions of people who are not them. Taxes built the roads. Other people created the markets. Not to mention that the system that they grew up in is entirely a privilege that they enjoy free of charge. The rich should be happy to pay their taxes and to pay more. It is in their interest for the poor to have more spending money, for them to be healthier, and for them to go to school. Not to mention that the Government actually uses their money, as opposed to hoarding it which does nothing for the economy.


    The poor already have too much spending money, as evidenced by the correlation between poverty and consumption of alcohol, tobacco, and money spent on tattoos and piercings.

    The problem is that most poor people don’t know how to make money and they don’t know how to hold onto money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litoralis View Post
    I'll have to go with Dr. Legend on this point. It's pretty much common knowledge that most millionaires and billionaires are self-made. It doesn't get much press because it cuts against the liberal argument that most rich people are lazy people who just inherited money.

    80 percent of millionaires are self-made.

    69 percent of billionaires are self-made. Only only 7% are billionaires solely by virtue of inheritance, and 8.5% grew up in poverty and are pure-bootstrap billionaires. There is a large gap between the pure bootstrap billionaires and inherited billionaires, because Forbes considers people like Mark Zuckerberg--who most people would consider a self-made billionaire--but whose parents were upper-middle class not a pure-bootstrap billionaire, because he didn't grow up in poverty.

    Why should I have to grow up in poverty to be respected? There is no dignity in poverty.

    Why should my children have to grow up in poverty?

    I would like to be in a position, where every son I have, when they turn 21 or 25 [or sometime in-between], I will give them several million dollars and tell them to go start a business or buy land and start a farm.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; March 27, 2017 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Consecutive posts merged.
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  10. #170
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Hahahaha, I couldn't think of a better example of self-serving propaganda developed by the rich to be parodied by the poor than what you just said.

    All things considered, if the unhealthy habits of the poor are evidence of having too much spending money, what does the habits of the rich tell you? You bought a pack of cigarettes, I bought a timeshare in the bahamas I'll never use. You purchased a way to forget your problems, I purchased a 100 gallon fish tank for and giggles. You purchased a movie ticket, I purchased a home theatre. You purchased a video game, I purchased a trip that felt like a video game. You purchased food, I purchased food. Who here has too much spending money? Or are you just going to hold that standard to the poor? Do you even care about people?
    Last edited by Elfdude; March 27, 2017 at 06:35 PM.

  11. #171
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    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by IronBrig4 View Post
    I remember when I lived in South Korea and had a severe sinus infection. I walked to the ER, was seen within 30 minutes, got checked out within the hour, and picked up my prescription. The whole ordeal cost me... the equivalent of 40 US dollars. And that was mostly for the medicine. Like I said, it was a nasty infection. Later on in Houston, I sprained my back late at night and had to go to the ER. I got to the hospital at about 10:30 pm and wasn't even seen until 5 am. The first person I saw was a legal type who wanted to be sure I wasn't trying to score pain pills. My insurance covered most of the cost but there's no reason a checkup should involve so much headache.

    Yeah, I know it's anecdotal. But if South Korea's health care is indicative of universal health care then I'm all for it. And I don't care what the Founding Fathers might or might not have thought.
    From Australia: had my gall bladder out after three painful episodes. Went to emergency those three times, took 1-2 hours each time (one time the attack was over before I was seen) but they booked in an operation (didn't even need to go through my GP), and I was treated well when they did see me. I was given drugs if I needed them, information, and they were getting to the serious cases very quickly so I wasn't being kept waiting for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Between this defeat and the Travel-ban hurdles, Trump has been a long way of his "always win" rhetoric. He hasn't been defeated, not completely. But this is not "tired of winning all the time" material.
    Indeed. Boasts about competence and the easy road ahead were just lies for the stupid.
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  12. #172
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Indeed. Boasts about competence and the easy road ahead were just lies for the stupid.
    It's almost as if the fact that he lies through his teeth every time he opens his mouth should have been blatantly apparent to anyone with a functioning brain.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  13. #173

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump View Post
    Hahahaha, I couldn't think of a better example of self-serving propaganda developed by the rich to be parodied by the poor than what you just said.

    All things considered, if the unhealthy habits of the poor are evidence of having too much spending money, what does the habits of the rich tell you? You bought a pack of cigarettes, I bought a timeshare in the bahamas I'll never use. You purchased a way to forget your problems, I purchased a 100 gallon fish tank for and giggles. You purchased a movie ticket, I purchased a home theatre. You purchased a video game, I purchased a trip that felt like a video game. You purchased food, I purchased food. Who here has too much spending money? Or are you just going to hold that standard to the poor? Do you even care about people?

    Do you even care about people with differing political views?
    "God is, as man conceives Him, the reflected image of man himself." Albert Pike in Morals and Dogma (33° AASR)


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  14. #174

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    The demographics in the intelligence quotient and motivations for the Trumpeters is a bit more complex than the rednecks they like to interview in his rallies.

    Some may have actually believed that Trump may magically conjure a new healthcare bill that would keep every provision they liked, and make it cheaper to pay for while increasing the military budget and cutting taxes across the board. Though it would appear, a rather substantial percentage.

    Had it passed, it would be wealthcare, since only the rich would have really gotten the savings.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  15. #175

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    The demographics in the intelligence quotient and motivations for the Trumpeters is a bit more complex than the rednecks they like to interview in his rallies.

    Some may have actually believed that Trump may magically conjure a new healthcare bill that would keep every provision they liked, and make it cheaper to pay for while increasing the military budget and cutting taxes across the board. Though it would appear, a rather substantial percentage.

    Had it passed, it would be wealthcare, since only the rich would have really gotten the savings.


    I would like to see the budget, size, scope, and nature of government scaled back to what it was around 1805 under Thomas Jefferson.

    Department of War
    Department of Navy
    Department of State
    Department of Justice/Attorney General
    Department of Treasury

    Eliminate the rest of the cabinet.

    This naturally means no government involvement in healthcare.

    Let freedom reign.

    Probably 98% of people cannot conceive of a society where the state is not all-powerful and is not involved in almost every aspect of their daily life.

    Mussolini summed it up very well, "the truth is men are of liberty."


    "Man is born free yet every where he is in chains..."

    You're born free but the very next instant they begin bombarding you with propaganda about why you need the state, why you are incomplete, why you need to buy this, study this, work there, aspire to the life they tell you is the only way to live.
    "God is, as man conceives Him, the reflected image of man himself." Albert Pike in Morals and Dogma (33° AASR)


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  16. #176

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    If we didn't fundamentally believe in healthcare, the monkeys wouldn't have started grooming each other.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  17. #177
    empr guy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ByzantinePowerGame View Post
    Mussolini summed it up very well, "the truth is men are of liberty."

    I think you a word in that quote.... Although yes good point, we should have our government guided by a fascists propaganda speeches rather then "common sense" or "things that actually work", exactly as the founding fathers intended.

    Also thank you for a government/taxes = slavery reference, I finally hit lolbertarian bingo from this thread
    odi et amo quare id faciam fortasse requiris / nescio sed fieri sentio et excrucior


  18. #178

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ByzantinePowerGame View Post
    I would like to see the budget, size, scope, and nature of government scaled back to what it was around 1805 under Thomas Jefferson.

    Department of War
    Department of Navy
    Department of State
    Department of Justice/Attorney General
    Department of Treasury

    Eliminate the rest of the cabinet.

    This naturally means no government involvement in healthcare.

    Let freedom reign.

    Probably 98% of people cannot conceive of a society where the state is not all-powerful and is not involved in almost every aspect of their daily life.

    Mussolini summed it up very well, "the truth is men are of liberty."


    "Man is born free yet every where he is in chains..."

    You're born free but the very next instant they begin bombarding you with propaganda about why you need the state, why you are incomplete, why you need to buy this, study this, work there, aspire to the life they tell you is the only way to live.
    So you like to point out that all the jewy people are in cahoots, quote Mussolini and would like it best when the US would go back to the glorious times of slavery and the annihilation of the native americans.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; March 28, 2017 at 04:08 AM. Reason: Calling people "nazis" is also against the ToS.

  19. #179
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    mussolini was a great advocate of personal freedom, or so alex jones tells me.

    and oc everyone gets indoctrinated with leftist propaganda form an early age, and not with religious nonsense about how the gays are from hell, or that some mommies kill their babies



    so, libertarians in this thread, do you prefer your healthcare plans made by religious nutjobs, cuz you know, freedom of choice?

    because thats what a republican government means, though its less communist than obamacare, i grant you that.
    Last edited by HannibalExMachina; March 28, 2017 at 06:52 AM.

  20. #180

    Default Re: The GOP Healthcare Bill

    Well the problem with the US health care is that at this point is contradictory, basically it's the result of endless negotiations.

    Half measures don't always work well, at this point the only good choices left are to go full public or full private healthcare.

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