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Thread: Chalybes - a Hattic remnant?

  1. #1
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Chalybes - a Hattic remnant?

    The Chalybes (Khálubes) was a generic greek name for a Pontic iron trader. Some Chalybes lived in region of Chaldia (Khaldia) and were specifically referred to as Khaldoi, the others (Tzannoi, Makrōnes) living further east are believed to be kartvelian people. Chaldia was located in western Pontos although in the byzantine period the Theme of Khaldia encompassed all of late roman Province of Pontus Polemoniacus, in addition to that Chaldian Theme excluded westernmost parts of original Chaldia.

    What makes Chalybes as a group interesting is that their reputation and lifestyle was similar to that of Isaurians with two notable exceptions, they were non-Indo-European people and were only christianized during the reign of Justinian I.

    Ancient Chaldia was a part of Kaska (Kaška) one of two remaining Hattic regions that were not settled by the Hittites (Nešili), the other was a Azzi-Hayaša located east of Kaska.
    These two regions were centered on the Pontus region with Azzi-Hayaša also slightly extending to Cappadocia and Lesser Armenia.
    The name Chalybes appears to be derived from hattic word for iron "ḫapalki" which itself is a cognate of hurrian "ḫabalgi". The greek Khálubes derived from "khálups" (steel), which in derives from hittite "kikluba", could ultimately originate from a modified hattic word.

    I'm interested for how long did these manage to exist in the ever increasing sea of Indo-European people, were they semi-hellenised, like the Isaurians during the late roman era, or did they retain much of their customs, religion and language until their complete subjugation by Justinian I.
    Any works on this subject, and the subject of Hattians is much appreciated. Non-translated publications are acceptable as well, especially german.
    Last edited by Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σω March 07, 2017 at 03:01 PM. Reason: minor corrections
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Chalybes - a Hattic remnant?

    It would make sense to have a fragmentary even itinerant tribal group undertaking ironwork rather like a European tinker in the early modern period. IIRC the metalworkers of Bronze Age Mesopotamia were usually itinerant groups from the northern and eastern mountain ranges.

    That said it might just be the word that is a Hattic survival and not the ethnic identity of the people. The Hittites were famed metal workers (not sure if it was their own discovery or inherited from conquered Hatti) who adopted a great amount of non IE words into their language (I'd assume mostly Hattic) so it would make sense for many people in the region to use the words for iron-workers from the chief iron-working culture in the area.

    In a similar vein some iterant British people (probably ethnically Irish) are called Gypsies despite most being neither Egyptian nor Rom. Interestingly they are also called tinkers, recalling a past identity as a caste of itinerant metal workers. (Britain also has Gypsies, that is to say itinerant Indians who have nomaded from NW India to Europe over many centuries, miscalled for supposed Egyptian identity, possibly associated with magic practices?).

    So a caste of metal workers retaining a separate ethnic (and even linguistic) identity is proved by the present existence of travellers and Rom in Europe, lasting maybe a thousand years.
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    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: Chalybes - a Hattic remnant?

    That's a good analogy, the Roma (actual ones, not those British-Irish mistaken for Gypsies) were also hereditary iron smelters in parts of Balkans and Romania. The Chalybes did eventually end up as a designation for anyone working and trading in iron in the pontic region, regardless of ethnicity. Nevertheless their name did initially signify a separate people, different from greek colonists, medo-persian aristocracy and other native groups in 3rd Century BC, only later did that change.

    According to late roman sources some of them were independent hill people of mixed ethnicities depending on which part of Chaldia they inhabited, it is certain that those dwelling in the east were Kartvelians. Chalybes in the west, descending from the Kaskians who were, according to most of modern scholars, a hattic people, are particularly interesting if their language managed to survive unto the roman period.

    I should also add that some scholars propose Kartvelian or Caucasian origin of Kaška, which in my opinion slightly diminishes their uniqueness since both of these two groups of people exist today.
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

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