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Thread: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

  1. #1

    Default Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    Hi folks,

    I was wondering whether Chaos rebellions as they currently work in the game also occur that way, or similarly, in the lore.

    I ask this because I'm having a hard time explaining to myself (specifically when I am playing as the Beastmen) where these chaotic forces actually come from: are they locals that started worshipping the Chaos gods? If so, why do they look like well equipped northmen? Should they not look like normal/mutated, poorly equipped humans instead? Or are they real Chaos warriors from the Chaos waste that have travelled South through magical means?

    I was actually thinking that Chaos corruption should rather spawn armies of Beastmen, since they are a more "natural" consequence of this kind of corruption (they are basically human mutants that infest every corner of the Warhammer world, right?). If this seem more lore-friendly to you, then I would very much like to know whether there is a mod out there that replaces Chaos rebellions with Beastmen rebellions.

    Looking forward to your comments on the matter, folks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    To an extent it is right, but equally no, it isn't. I'm sure there would be a lot of mutated folk alongside the cultists, those that have hidden their true loyalties for years. But there would be all sorts in those rebellions, including professional soldiers. One of the cults, I can't remember which, has embedded itself deeply into the professional armies of the Empire, so those cultists would still fight in the manner they currently do. However, the more chaos tainted you become, the more base you become. There is good reason for there being very few guns in Chaos forces, following chaos tends to draw out your natural instincts rather than keeping you civilised. So in some ways it is right, but really, the rebellions should be presented differently.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    It should be cultists, who look like the faction they've spawned from with different skins, really, and possibly some higher-tier Chaos units as well the longer it goes on.

    Norscan warriors probably shouldn't be spawning in Averland.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    I always thought it should be made up of chaos reskinned flagellants, some professional soldiers, maybe one or two chosen, and a lord, either a mutated Empire Lord, or something?
    Forward, march!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    Corruption isn't just ground and people/ animals being mutated, it's influence as well. IMO it should be randomized along a few sets of templates, like corrupted armies, actual beastmen, etc.

    Problem of course is game-related: you'd have to design these special rebel factions to almost the point that they might as well be actual regular factions. Lots of new units and such just to make rebellions a bit more fancy.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    Thank you for all the interesting comments I knew there was something wrong with the actual Chaos rebellions, but I'm glad to see that it should be made even more complex than what I thought (i.e. spawning of Beastmen armies instead of Norscan armies) in order to for these rebellions to be lore-accurate.

    A couple of questions, now that some other points have been raised: are there instances of greenskins turning to Chaos, and if so is it a common case? As for dwarves, I know that they have some chaotic cousins, but does that mean that dwarves are as easily corruptible by Chaos as humans are, or are we talking of two totally different kinds of stunties?

    Ultimately, I'd like us to come up with a implementable idea of making the Chaos rebellions more lore-accurate. A mix of ordinary, poorly equipped humans with a few mutations and some more professional troops from the local garnison, all under the command of say a Chaos sorcerer, sounds like a good idea for most of the map. But what about the Badlands, the mountainous regions and Athel Loren?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    The way I thought it worked was, when chaos corruption starts to spread, random portals pop out in your province and chaos soldiers start trickling in, until there's enough of them to form an army. When I deploy heroes and such to reduce chaos corruption, I imagine them roaming the land battling chaos mobs in random encounters and closing the portals.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    Thats more of a deamon thing. Portals spew forth deamonic entities which are still chaos force given material form. But i think corruption is more like shortfalls among the people like plague pestilence mutation corruption of body and soul rage violence and stuff like that. If it goes too far a random preacher might gather some followers within the civilised parts of the empire and start a minjli rebellion. But no steel encased chaos warriors and knights. Beasmen are cool to have though. They are what chaos brings and what chaos creates. I wish they were better implemented.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingkuhn View Post
    A couple of questions, now that some other points have been raised: are there instances of greenskins turning to Chaos, and if so is it a common case? As for dwarves, I know that they have some chaotic cousins, but does that mean that dwarves are as easily corruptible by Chaos as humans are, or are we talking of two totally different kinds of stunties?

    Ultimately, I'd like us to come up with a implementable idea of making the Chaos rebellions more lore-accurate. A mix of ordinary, poorly equipped humans with a few mutations and some more professional troops from the local garnison, all under the command of say a Chaos sorcerer, sounds like a good idea for most of the map. But what about the Badlands, the mountainous regions and Athel Loren?

    I know of Nurgle Orkz from 40k, which were infected by a certain kind of demonic plague. Otherwise, I don't know of any examples. I believe this is in part due to the Greenskins being funghoids with very primitive minds, which would make them harder to corrupt. And if I recall right there is a bit of lore where Gork and Mork beat up the Chaos Gods. But yes it is certainly possible, but I can see the Dark Gods getting frustrated very quickly with the utter level of retardedness that comes with Greenskins.

    As for the Chaos Dwarves, they were the Dwarves who staked out a claim for themselves in the Dark Lands beyond the World's Edge Mountains. This place was already considered tainted/cursed even before the Great Catastrophe that saw Chaos invade the world. And while the magical- and thus chaos-resistant Dwarves inside their mountain holds survived quite well. Those outside were ravaged and annihilated. However the Chaos Dwarves made some sort of pact with the Father of Darkness, Hashut. He not only somehow helped them through the Catastrophe, but also granted them sorcery and a means to survive and rebuild their civilisation. However, they had also mutated, from little horns and a darker skin to full-on hooves. At this point they are definately two different races of Dwarves, originating from the same ancestors. Furthermore, Hashut might be a kind of minor-Chaos deity like the Horned Rat, or might be associated with Khorne or Tzeentch, its very vague and unknown. He certainly requires a whole lot of bloody sacrifices though.


    So to make Chaos rebellions more lore accurate, I'd prefer if they made them into Beastmen, Skaven or Cultists rather than Norscans. Maybe with some areas only being able to spawn one type likeDwarf/Greenskin Holds in the Mountains only getting Skaven for Chaos Rebels, but a Human/Vampire who holds Middenheim can get Skaven, Beastmen or Cultists.

    As for Vampiric rebellions, it is not too far fetched to have a random Necromancer of Vampire trying to stake a claim somewhere and raising the local dead to form an army.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?


  11. #11

    Default Re: Chaos rebellions, lore friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samitte View Post
    I know of Nurgle Orkz from 40k, which were infected by a certain kind of demonic plague. Otherwise, I don't know of any examples. I believe this is in part due to the Greenskins being funghoids with very primitive minds, which would make them harder to corrupt. And if I recall right there is a bit of lore where Gork and Mork beat up the Chaos Gods. But yes it is certainly possible, but I can see the Dark Gods getting frustrated very quickly with the utter level of retardedness that comes with Greenskins.

    As for the Chaos Dwarves, they were the Dwarves who staked out a claim for themselves in the Dark Lands beyond the World's Edge Mountains. This place was already considered tainted/cursed even before the Great Catastrophe that saw Chaos invade the world. And while the magical- and thus chaos-resistant Dwarves inside their mountain holds survived quite well. Those outside were ravaged and annihilated. However the Chaos Dwarves made some sort of pact with the Father of Darkness, Hashut. He not only somehow helped them through the Catastrophe, but also granted them sorcery and a means to survive and rebuild their civilisation. However, they had also mutated, from little horns and a darker skin to full-on hooves. At this point they are definately two different races of Dwarves, originating from the same ancestors. Furthermore, Hashut might be a kind of minor-Chaos deity like the Horned Rat, or might be associated with Khorne or Tzeentch, its very vague and unknown. He certainly requires a whole lot of bloody sacrifices though.
    Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing it

    Quote Originally Posted by Samitte View Post
    So to make Chaos rebellions more lore accurate, I'd prefer if they made them into Beastmen, Skaven or Cultists rather than Norscans. Maybe with some areas only being able to spawn one type likeDwarf/Greenskin Holds in the Mountains only getting Skaven for Chaos Rebels, but a Human/Vampire who holds Middenheim can get Skaven, Beastmen or Cultists.
    That would make sense. I really hope that the Warriors of Chaos will see some update in the future regarding how they play (their game mechanics is probably the least interesting of all factions, imo) and that alongside this update Chaos rebellions will be redone in a way that is at least similar to what you described.
    Last edited by Dingkuhn; March 12, 2017 at 07:18 AM.

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