Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Cuman Khanate (REVAMP)

[Lucem Mundum]

Ah nevermind then. Do the Russian units have them as well?

I am not working on the Russians, but I don't remember seeing such helmets in their roster.

[Visarion]

U shoukd use the helmets from the former roster especially those from the old Cuman Macemen... to sime soet of heavy cav lancers/ha or smth and tgeir dismounted version two handed macemen and bow or spearmen and bow

[Lucem Mundum]

U shoukd use the helmets from the former roster especially those from the old Cuman Macemen... to sime soet of heavy cav lancers/ha or smth and tgeir dismounted version two handed macemen and bow or spearmen and bow

There are multiple units equipped with the helmets worn by units from the old roster. I like to keep units distinct so I am not planing on reusing the same helmets on more than 3-5 units.

[Visarion]

Oh btw do you remember that pic of tgat fresqoe of a mongol turk cav using a two handed large mace / club... will that be represented somehow!?

[Lucem Mundum]

Someone has to create a new animation for that. It will definitely be interesting to see two handed cavalry units.

[Visarion]

Tiers 2 and 3 Tartar Cuman Moldavian raids in Hungary / Kypchaks / Manghits / Nogais + Kalmyks - Uralic people / Crimean Tartars !?

[Visarion]

Sry kalmyks came later... so Cumans under Tartars, probably still overlords of the Moldavians, Kypchaks, Mangudai Manghit Nogai krai or borderguards of the Astrakhan and Crimean Tartars, Crimean Tartars basically Kypchaks that defeated the Golden Horde in alliance with Moldavia and Venice under a Tartar /Mongol overlord from Lithuania so a powerfull counterpart of the Golden Horde. Together with the Bazaraads of Wallachia and the other Cuman / Pechenegs / Oghuz from Hungary, Serbia, Dobrudja or Karvuna, the Byzantines

[Visarion]

Interesting read about the Nogais.

@ Lucem Mundum

So what do you think?

Tier 1

Turks: Cumans. Pechenegs. Oghuz. Khazars. Sarmatians: Jasz. Alans. Moldavians - Vlachs: Bolokhovians. Tauro-Scythian Bordini (Terra Bordini). Galician-Halych Berladniks.

Tier 2: Cumans. Moldavians. Tartars. Kypchaks -> Khanate of Crimea. Khazars -> Astrakhan. Manghud. Manghit. -> Nogai Horde.

Tier 3. Crimean Khanate with the Nogais and Astrakhan as subjects, Moldavia and Venice as allies.

[Visarion]

Tartars of Crimea: Tartars, Kypchaks, Nogais as nomad Tartars and the coastal or city Tartars or Tat, Turkified Goths and Greeks or Urums. Venetians in tier 3 and Genoese in tier 2.

Elite units:

Tier 2 Early. Hungarian and native Cumans and Jasz of Jassy, Moldavia, Budjak and Khunsag. Tartars. Moldavian Cavalry. Late: Crimean Oglan. Genoese

Tier 3 Kypchaks that migrated in Crimea and defeated the Golden Horde. Crimean Uhlan. Crimean Mirza. Nogai Horde. Allied Moldavians and Venetians

[Visarion]

As to differentiate this faction from the Golden Horde in tier 2 Cumans could be represented as allies of Tartars and their shared Moldavian subjects and in tier 3 the somewhat autonomous Kypchaks, Crimean Tartars, Tat, Venetians, Moldavian allies and Nogais could be implemented instead of the generig Tartars and Mongols of the Golden Horde. Nogais instead of Mabghud. Manghit absorbed.

[Visarion]

Kypchak Nogai baghatur bogatyr etc.

Probably Astrakhan Myrza or Mirza

Crimean Oglan Uhlan Ulan light cav from where the western Ulan term of light cav was born alongside Hussar.

Mongol Manghud -> Turkified Manghit that united several tribes and made the Nogai Horde defenders of both Astrakhan and Crimean Khanate but vassal of the Crimean Kypchak Tartars together with Astrakhan... so late nations: early: Kypchaks. Manghits. Part of the Tartars-Mongol elite nobility. Genoese merchents. Late: Crimean Tartars. Tat (Goths and Urum Turkified Greeks) Venetians. Nogais. Part of the Tartars (mixed Turks including remnants of Khazars) of Astrakhan and Volga - Kazan Region (Bulgars). Later Sibirs. Kalmyks. Circassians. Probably Ossetians-Alans also. Would be the best choice. As the nations remained un mixed and the century old animosities eventualy broke the great Golden Horde - mainly Kypchac - Cuman - Khazar - Manghit - Nogai - Astrakhan - Ossetian - Bulgars of Kazan - Sibirs later Kalmyks Ural people. As a proof the Greeks of Crimea played a major role later when the Tartars were defeated. Crimean Tartars. Other Greeks came and developed Crimea Mariupol and Odessa.

[Lucem Mundum]

Interesting read about the Nogais.

@ Lucem Mundum

So what do you think?

Tier 1

Turks: Cumans. Pechenegs. Oghuz. Khazars. Sarmatians: Jasz. Alans. Moldavians - Vlachs: Bolokhovians. Tauro-Scythian Bordini (Terra Bordini). Galician-Halych Berladniks.

Tier 2: Cumans. Moldavians. Tartars. Kypchaks -> Khanate of Crimea. Khazars -> Astrakhan. Manghud. Manghit. -> Nogai Horde.

Tier 3. Crimean Khanate with the Nogais and Astrakhan as subjects, Moldavia and Venice as allies.

Both tiers 1 and 2 will mainly consist of Cumans, and to a lesser extent Pechenegs, Vlachs, Moldovians, and the other subject groups. Tier 3 in the other hand will mainly be based on the Crimean Khanate, the Golden Horde, and the Nogai Khanate.

Tartars of Crimea: Tartars, Kypchaks, Nogais as nomad Tartars and the coastal or city Tartars or Tat, Turkified Goths and Greeks or Urums. Venetians in tier 3 and Genoese in tier 2.

Elite units:

Tier 2 Early. Hungarian and native Cumans and Jasz of Jassy, Moldavia, Budjak and Khunsag. Tartars. Moldavian Cavalry. Late: Crimean Oglan. Genoese

Tier 3 Kypchaks that migrated in Crimea and defeated the Golden Horde. Crimean Uhlan. Crimean Mirza. Nogai Horde. Allied Moldavians and Venetians

I will refrain from adding Genoese and Venetian units to the roster since they were mainly hired a mercenaries, but they will be hireable as regional units in the Crimean peninsula.

Kypchak baghatur bogatyr

is this supposed to be a unit?

[Visarion]

Alongside greeks germans came in crimea too in the 18th century as to diminish the importance of the TURKIC nations generic called Tatars by the Russians as Urums and Goths were a very well preserved culture due to their stuborness even if Tartars tried to annihilate them thru continous pillaging rapind and all kind of interdictions high taxation etc. This includes Theodoro that was also shaded by the new Venetian ports. Many bought from Tartars

[Lucem Mundum]

Alongside greeks germans came in crimea too in the 18th century as to diminish the importance of the TURKIC nations generic called Tatars by the Russians as Urums and Goths were a very well preserved culture due to their stuborness even if Tartars tried to annihilate them thru continous pillaging rapind and all kind of interdictions high taxation etc. This includes Theodoro that was also shaded by the new Venetian ports. Many bought from Tartars

the 18th century is outside our mod's timeframe isn't it?

[Visarion]

Baghatur yeah bogatyr is the russian form and i proposed it due to proximity

Russians called them all Tartars mmeaning turks under their rule but they were in fact very diverse and well separated as clans. Few intermixing. Sure they lived together put kept their identity so the stiry from then is different from the one told by Russia

[Visarion]

Probably Cumans slso had Boghatur units because of Hungarian Bator Bathory Khazars as well

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghatur

Bulgars for sure

[Visarion]

Yeah Kypchak Batyr... kept in the Lhazakh and Uzbek languages and folklote

[Visarion]

the 18th century is outside our mod's timeframe isn't it?

Yeah but it shows tgat Greeks and Goths kept their identity. Some greeks became urums mixed amd spoke a bazaar turkic language though

[Visarion]

Maybe Urums as representing "converted" Greeks and Goths... a late unit or two

[Lucem Mundum]

Maybe Urums as representing "converted" Greeks and Goths... a late unit or two

I don't know much about the Urums but it doesn't seem like they were a significant group militarily to deserve their own unit.