Makedon tips please?

[Vainfall]

Really struggling vs the massive Odrysian numbers and insane AI aggressiveness. I feel like i had a pretty solid start taking epirus and larissa by turn 7, but it fell apart soon after. War with athens, sparta, ardeaiaiaaiiaia, rome and eventually odrysia/thyni. Kept it together for another 20 turns but eventually got overwhelmed. Managed to oeace everyone except Odrysia and Thyni, but the two of them fielded 4 full stacks to my 1.25

My army comp was 11 macedon hoplites, 4 slingers, 4 sarissaphoroi.

Does anyone have advice on starting strats, expansion, army comp, etc. I'm new and know little to nothing about min/maxing in R2TW or metagaming, though i'm experienced in the TW series in general.

[asansin]

Your first object is to crush Tylis and unite all of Thrace. Do not worry about the Greek/ Epirut war to the south, chances are that the Athenians or SPartans will beat the Epirtus and declare war on you. But that won't happen till 20 turns in.
Turn 1: Build an army in Macedon and 1 ship for your navy.
Turn 2: Send your navy out to raid Tylis.
Turn 3: Their army should sally out to meet you at sea, fighting about 5- 7 transports and 2-3 ships. You can win this battle manually. but at a great cost. Alternatively, withdraw your navy, and come back again next turn to cheese out the sallied fleet. They won't be able to make it back to the city in time and chances are they will only fight you with the transports. Use this opportunity to mass your troops.
Turn 4: With the Tylesian army crushed, send your stacks to capture their capital.

By this time your objective is now to stabilize the nation and prepare to take on the Ordysians, they will either make war with you or Triballi to your north. Either way, Ally with the Triballians, they are defensive by nature and won't backstab you atleast on Hard difficulty and make war with the Ordysians. You are now 1 settlement away from uniting all of Thrace, the war to the south is coming to an end and you must quickly act to stabilize your nation and send your army south.

This is what happened to my save- United Thrace but was at war with Sparta and Athens, main army was fighting to defend macedon, supporting army was sent at Ordysian capital to defend against raidiing bosphorans and since i backstabbed triballi, I had no allies and no one wanted to trade with me. So RIP macedon campaign :L.

I had little success in my campaign, but I hope you can get some ideas for your next Macedon playthrough

[KAM 2150]

Also worth noting, once Hellenic overhaul will kick in, Macedon will have almost completly new roster of units.

[Ferreira]

So, I'm kinda in the same boat. No matter what I decide to do, I'll always get swamped with a ton of wars and enemies with a lot more men than I have. What am I doing wrong?

If I try to go south and take the league city, Athens attacks my single stack(which caps my income, at times going under) with two full stacks, and those aren't of bad troops either. They somehow have two full stacks with good quality troops while I struggle to get a single one, so that doesn't work. Even if I could defend(and I'd say I can, but it would pretty much destroy my army), the Thracian tribes to the north all declare on me as well and march on Pella, which has to stand against 3 factions with 2 stacks each.

If I go to the north and try to take Pulpudeva, which is pretty easy in the beginning as they try to get out and fight you on the field with pretty much equal numbers, Athens and the league immediately declare war(Sparta declares on turn 2 regardless of what I do) and siege Pella. So now I have a stack that isn't at full strength as it can't reinforce because of a lack of pop in the newly conquered province, am facing a stack laying siege to Pella, have two other wars in Thrace, and Pulpudeva inevitably revolts.

Any ideas would be welcome. Do I just suck? And all of this is on normal too.

/edit: Tried just turtling and even Ptolemai decided to declare war against me. Huh.

[JCB206]

This version is just that much harder. Try the softcore mod until you get a little something going. But remember to turn it off. Once you get a few cities, it's not needed. I forgot on my Macedon campaign until I had taken Greece, Thrace, and Dacia. By then I was too powerful for any faction other than Rome, who I had a Military Alliance with. But the softcore mod is great for the first 20 turns or so.

[Stilldead]

This version is just that much harder. Try the softcore mod until you get a little something going. But remember to turn it off. Once you get a few cities, it's not needed. I forgot on my Macedon campaign until I had taken Greece, Thrace, and Dacia. By then I was too powerful for any faction other than Rome, who I had a Military Alliance with. But the softcore mod is great for the first 20 turns or so.

Must get terribly boring, might aswell just straight up advise straight cheating

[Ferreira]

Must get terribly boring, might aswell just straight up advise straight cheating

Crazy, it's almost as if different people enjoy the game in different ways, huh.

[Stilldead]

Crazy, it's almost as if different people enjoy the game in different ways, huh.

Ye,almost.

[Protector]

I would say Macedon ist not succesful playable. (of course battle and gameplay setting is on normal as recommended).

I already tried 6 different Macedon camapigns, every time another attempt. But after about 40 turns game is over or at least no any chance.

Even there is no any agressive behavior as Macedon, all neighbors will step by step declare war on Macedon. On about turn 30, Macedon will have 7 enemies and they visit you with full stacks, no matter what you do. Half of the campaigns were just defending enemy stack by stack.

I also tried to expand to north and to south but after 30-40 turns I was defeated due to too many enemy stacks. Together in combination with raiding, low income and extreme slow replenishment after defending battles.


If there is anybody out there who is able to survive succesful longer than 50-60 turns, with a real chance to win the campaign, please feel free to post your youtube tutorial, I will be the first to subscribe.

Thx in advance

[Garbad]

I can do it, tell me what difficulty you play on.

[Magicmetalman]

I've been holding off in 1.2 Macedonia till overhaul but they shouldn't be very hard even with multiple war front. I advise goin south for the Greeks first. Leave a small army in walled Thracian city to hold. Between the garrison, a general unit, few extra archers and 1-2 spears you should win all defensive battles as you can burn the ladders and hold the gate easily with pikes. No matter how many enemy's you have to the north this hold will be easy. To the south war with Epirus and take Macedonia. Post a navy on the wester port and don't go into Italy, even if Rome declares war they will only send unsupported transports at you, an easy battle for 5 or so ships + garrison ships. Now you can focus on getting the rest of Greece which should be pretty easy. Next grab Illyria but not the morthmost town, throw an army small holding army in that walled city. After that you can expan wherever you like, all enemy's will have to attack either a walled city with small army or across water defended by a navy. This should be a cheep way to defend, allowing you to build 2 strong offensive army's you can put on whichever front you want to push, be that Italy, the east or the north.

[Protector]

I can do it, tell me what difficulty you play on.

As I already said in my post I play as recommended on normal difficulty.

I've been holding off in 1.2 Macedonia till overhaul but they shouldn't be very hard even with multiple war front. I advise goin south for the Greeks first. Leave a small army in walled Thracian city to hold. Between the garrison, a general unit, few extra archers and 1-2 spears you should win all defensive battles as you can burn the ladders and hold the gate easily with pikes. No matter how many enemy's you have to the north this hold will be easy. To the south war with Epirus and take Macedonia. Post a navy on the wester port and don't go into Italy, even if Rome declares war they will only send unsupported transports at you, an easy battle for 5 or so ships + garrison ships. Now you can focus on getting the rest of Greece which should be pretty easy. Next grab Illyria but not the morthmost town, throw an army small holding army in that walled city. After that you can expan wherever you like, all enemy's will have to attack either a walled city with small army or across water defended by a navy. This should be a cheep way to defend, allowing you to build 2 strong offensive army's you can put on whichever front you want to push, be that Italy, the east or the north.

Thx for your reply,
but dont compare it with version 1.1
With DeI version 1.1 I really do not have any serious trouble to play and to win a Macedon campaign is no problem.

Die version 1.2 is totally different in any aspect. And with version 1.2 you also will see that Macedon got one Region only. The walled Thracian City does not belong anymore to Macedon !

It is much much more difficult than with version 1.1 Especially due to income trouble and many attacking enemies in a very short time.

And btw
even with 6 archer units I could be lucky to burn just in time one out of 5-7 ladders from the attacking enemy.

[Magicmetalman]

ok well just change my strat to holding walled city at pella.
I almost never lose battles in a walled city unless i'm up against like 2 full seluc stacks even in 1.2. The key to stoping the ladders is to send you most worthless garrison units, civilians or light spears, and form up a line in front of where the ladders are coming in. Then once the ladders are in range of archers rush the ladders, the ai units will just try to push through your lines with the ladders and get enveloped, even civilians will win this battle because ladder units don't fight back. Sometimes the enemy will support ladder troops and kill your counter attack, but more often they just watch the fight for the ladders. occasionally they will support the ladders and kill your counter attack, but this still takes time and most of the ladders will be burnt, and you will kill like 4 units holding ladders for free. Most of the time the ai will give up on ladders if they drop them, sometimes they will pick them back up if they are unburned, but most of the time they will just leave in tact ladders sitting there and go to the gates.(I do this strat with india who doesn't even have archer garrisons) If they do get one ladder to the wall, you can usually out flank that unit with 2 mid level garrison units and win.

Later in game with huge cities you often have a citadel like upper city. You can then leave the walls mostly undefended a spear on the gate, and just let the comp take them and eat damage from towers. Then take advantage of the fact that the enemy b-lines it for the central capture no matter what, and set a huge trap. Place your deployables on the central capture. They will walk right onto them and you then hit them from all sides with archres and melee units while they flounder around flame pits.


The main point of my strat advice to avoid being overwhelmed is this. use bottlenecks not just in battle but on the world map. especially if you can funnel enemies across water for easy navy victory or to a walled city. Though even unwalled citys with big garrisons can be enough to shut down enemy armies cheaply with a less well equipped army. Even river battles in certain parts of the map can give the same advantage. I think thats really the key to avoid being overwhelmed. I'll give it a shot with macedonians to see if I can work it.

[geala]

I had similar problems as Protector and the TS. Maybe you can defend Pella some times but you cannot win by defending Pella. For me it was always the problem of early multiple front wars and not enough money. Greeks, Thracians and Illyrians are very tough enemies and a lot of it are near you in good positions and without enemies. If Rome conquers Apollonia you also have to deal with them (they landed two stacks and declared war on me in my last trial). I think a key for success would be to take Athens early but I never got it in time.

[Magicmetalman]

idk i started up a campagin and just blitzed greece, took the greeks to the south first term with mercs, then helped rome war with epirus. So first 4 turns i had macedon providence. Then sparta declared war so i crushed them and then hit athens. Headed north into illyra took the bronze and the walled city. So far I haven't had any problem with thracians and the romans are ok with me for help with eprius. Next i will take the walled celtic city so my north will be all walled cities. then i will press against the thracians who have consolidated the providence of thrace. Maybe i got lucky and didn't get swamped? but it was pretty straightforward to me. I could declare war on all my neighbors to see if I can hold off if you want but the Macedonian campaign is definately doable as long as you don't autoresolve. They have such good units for fighting multiple enemies, the high armor pikes and cav means you can win battles with like 2% losses makes it easy to fight several battles a turn without problem. Plus you share culture with neighbors so conquest isn't big deal and you can replenish units in newly conquered territory.
I think it really helps to build on elite aggressive army with champion, and cheap holding armies, that way you can have one stack all elite pikes and cavalry to just hammer and anvil everything.

[Protector]

So first 4 turns i had macedon providence. Then sparta declared war so i crushed them and then hit athens.

How did you crash Sparta early in game ? How did you attack them...did you get to Sparta by a fleet due to other nation between Macedon and Sparta ?

Also Athen became extreme strong in defence power with the walled city, I never crashed it especially because my other territory is attacked at the same time by other nations. In addition to it there is enemy raiding going on which is killing my really poor income.

[Magicmetalman]

I hit the spartans early as i could like first 6 turns so i was only at war with epirus at the same time. Basically first turn i hired mercenaries and took out the league to the south, dismissed mecenaries and hired 4 pikes. turn 2 i declared war on epirus and turn 3 i took the money looting and bought more mercs to take epirus's greek holding which was probably the hardest battle but mercenarys and pikes can win it. I recruited a small navy at that territory to hold any attacks from italy. then i went south to sparta, You can cross the water from thessaly to sparta without ships or ports so you don't have to cross Athens territory(you can also just cross there land your going to war with them next so who cares if they are mad at you). I think I probably had 8 pike units, 2 hoplites, 2 peltast 2 light peltasts, generals cav, 1 jav cav, then the rest was mercenaries hoplites and cavalry, it was pretty easy to beat them in the field with simple hammer and anvil tactics as your pikes can hold, and all your other units are far better than their helot ones, its really not a bad battle as they won't be a full stack and they only have like 2-3 full spartan holite units.
As for Athens I took them the next turn, because their main stack was out of the city. I think I used a solo general to seige athens so the garrison couldn't come out, then hit the army in the feild and crushed it. Then i seiged it for couple turns while i recruited some new units for the solo general, and autoresolved the seige with 2 stacks. If they don't start out of the city you can probably lure them out by placing an army in ambush mode in front of sparta or the greek territory and see if they will leave there walls. You can also raid within reinforcement distance of Athen's city and they will definately attack you, because they will outnumber you. Thats a more risky battle but its not to bad to beat larger hoplite armys if you have enough pikes to make a long wall, and enough horse to do an effective pincer.

I did have the advantage of not having anyone raiding me, but if you do it quick others won't have time to declare war on you and attack before you've taken greece and macedon. and rome should finish off epirus in italy and like you for your help. The thracians can only attack your capital, but if you don't provoke them they should fight eachother before they turn to you. I think a big part of a good start for small factions is to use mercenaries well. Recruit them, put them where your most casualties are going to be so your regulars stay don't die, dismiss them after the battle. Next turn use the money you got from looting the city to buy yourself a brand new mercenary host to hit the next enemy. It will also give you even numbers with your enemys who will not have time to recruit many units, so you'll end up with a mostly full army of 16-20 units while the enemy has 8-12 units + small city garrison of like 10 units so your pretty evenly matched numbers wise but you have army of half mercenarys who are usually quite strong while they have army of half garrison units who are terrible.

[motaboy]

Anyone managed to avoid a war with rome early in game? They always declare war on me after they defeated Epirus. I also declared war on Epirus so the Romans like me more - but they declare war on me no matter how good my relations with them are. I just don't have time to advance north and the thracian fractions always declare war on mee, too. So I'm confronted with a 2-front-war :/

[hoho96]

I actually managed to get a trade and a non aggression with Rome

What you need to do is declare war on Epirus and let it last a few turns before you take Appolonia (to build up military action bonus with Rome), then Rome after a couple of years would usually declare war on one of the Illyrian kingdoms. When that happen, you can increase your standing with Rome by trespassing and agent action and even war if you feel comfortable enough.
This should by now land you at least a trade with Rome.
Check your diplomacy screen each turn and try for something with Rome even if you have to pay some money for it. In the end it's so worth it to free you up from paying attention to the north west, and focus on Thrace and Asia.

My usual plan with Macedon is build a strong single army from the first turn. Blitz Larissa then Sparta and finally Athens. All the while do agen actions against Epirus. Consolidate your gains, then once your spy see that Appolonia is empty (their armies left to fight Rome), declare war on Epirus and take it. By now you should have one other general in Pilla recruiting levies just to protect your capital in case of a Thracian stupidity which rarely happen that early. I usually actually manage some trade agreements with the thracians which will keep them from attacking you for a while.

Macedon IMO got some of the best early period units in the game (the super heavy shock general, the early Peltasts which are some of the best anti-hoplite units, and those 4 units of bronze shields which are really all the pikes you would need until you're well into your mid game, and the medium makedonian hoplites who are just amazing as a flanking and cavalry support unit.).


a little hint: once you take Sparta, you get access to the Spartan Hoplites for recruitment there. A couple of units of those legendary warriors will go a long way with your campaign

[motaboy]

So now in my 4th try with Macedon I declared war on Epirus in the 1st round. Sent my agent to poison their wells every round. Of couse the Romans like me now, but still declare war First time even before Epiros was defeated - I reloaded the game and this time they didn't. So I took Appolonia and the Romans liked it and where willing to sign a "non-aggression pact". This pact lasted 1! turn Rome likes me with 97 points and Epirus still has an army btw. Reloading doesn't help anymore... Is it somehow hard-coded?

Playing on hard because I like to be at war with many factions - just not with Rome (yet).

//edit: I just loaded the save before taking Appolonia and didn't take it directly but besieged it - Rome offers me a trade agreement and a non-aggression pact and all of their money :O Once I take Appolonia they declare war on me So I liberated Appolonia and thanks to the gods - it seemed to work