Joseon has the best units by far - why?

[krazysigmarite]

First off, love the mod. I'm just curious about the balancing of the factions. It seems to be:

Jurchen: Superior Cavalry, Good Infantry
Ming: Huge numbers of infantry, good cavalry, superior archers
Japanese Clans: Superior Melee Infantry, average cavalry & archers

But then we have Joseon. They actually have units that are superior to the best units that all the other factions have - from every category. In fact, the entire late-game lineup (basically any of the 'heavy' infantry units) outclass all the other factions' units.

Example: For just 880 gold, you get Korean Heavy Flails. These blokes have 160 men, a massive 31! attack, above-average 7 melee defence, and excellent 7 armor. This makes them the most cost effective and powerful melee unit in the entire mod. Korean warrior monk archers have a marksmanship of 70, making them equal to the most elite Jurchen units - but have 100 men instead of 40. Korean Flail Cav. have the best charge bonus in the game.

I assume this is just a case of power creep (the desire to make new units a little better than old ones) but it makes playing as Joseon way too easy. I can just spam stacks of heavy infantry and steamroll over the most elite Japanese units in seconds. If you have a balance person, you might want to have them take a quick look at unit_stats_land and make some adjustments.

[Joseon194]

You called?

[uanime5]

But then we have Joseon. They actually have units that are superior to the best units that all the other factions have - from every category. In fact, the entire late-game lineup (basically any of the 'heavy' infantry units) outclass all the other factions' units.

These aren't late game units. They're professional soldiers that can only be recruited in the capital.

The late game units are the medium units which represent military reforms (professional units that can be recruited anywhere).

Example: For just 880 gold, you get Korean Heavy Flails. These blokes have 160 men, a massive 31! attack, above-average 7 melee defence, and excellent 7 armor. This makes them the most cost effective and powerful melee unit in the entire mod.

160 men is average for most professional units.

Their attack is 31 because that's the attack of the tetsubo (huge wooden club in the Genpei campaign). I gave them a high attack because there isn't an armour piercing ability I can give melee units (unsure how well the armour piercing ability works as only Kisho Ninjas have it).

Their armour is 7 because units with polearms get +2 armour. This is why Naginata samurai also have higher than average armour.

Other spear and polearm units have 8-10 defence.

They're also slower than some of the lighter units and have average moral.

So other than their high attack these units do not have better stats than most units. Though if the armour piercing ability works I could reduce their attack.

Korean warrior monk archers have a marksmanship of 70, making them equal to the most elite Jurchen units - but have 100 men instead of 40.

These stats are based on the Japanese warrior monk, specifically the Chosokabe Bow Warrior Monk which has the same marksmanship.

Also the elite Jurchen foot units have a marksmanship of 95, with their elite cavalry having a marksmanship of 90.

Korean Flail Cav. have the best charge bonus in the game.

The regular Korean Flail Cav. has a change of 8, the elite has a charge of 14. By contrast spear cavalry have a charge of 25-40.

I assume this is just a case of power creep (the desire to make new units a little better than old ones) but it makes playing as Joseon way too easy. I can just spam stacks of heavy infantry and steamroll over the most elite Japanese units in seconds. If you have a balance person, you might want to have them take a quick look at unit_stats_land and make some adjustments.

The Koreans did have some strong units (professional soldiers) but they could only be recruited in the capital. The best way to balance these units would be to tweak the AoR system to reduce how many can be recruited.

[krazysigmarite]

These aren't late game units. They're professional soldiers that can only be recruited in the capital.

The late game units are the medium units which represent military reforms (professional units that can be recruited anywhere).

160 men is average for most professional units.

Their attack is 31 because that's the attack of the tetsubo (huge wooden club in the Genpei campaign). I gave them a high attack because there isn't an armour piercing ability I can give melee units (unsure how well the armour piercing ability works as only Kisho Ninjas have it).

Their armour is 7 because units with polearms get +2 armour. This is why Naginata samurai also have higher than average armour.

Other spear and polearm units have 8-10 defence.

They're also slower than some of the lighter units and have average moral.

So other than their high attack these units do not have better stats than most units. Though if the armour piercing ability works I could reduce their attack.

I understand the reasoning of the other units - but 31 attack is way too high. In the Genpei campaign, Tetsubo units are limited to 20 men. That is their balancing factor. Do a few test runs in custom battle - I guarantee you the Heavy Flail unit will defeat every unit in the game. A more reasonable balance would be give them similar attack as Nodachi units. 31 is way too high.