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Thread: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

  1. #1
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Considering the mixed outcome of the preliminary decision, I went for a compromise, that separates the constitutive core from the regulations and procedures, but keeps these in a drop-down box at the end of the section with jump/anchor footnotes to jump to and fro with ease.

    Section I - Citizenship and Curial Officers
    Article I. CitizenshipCitizenship is the fundamental award given1 by the Curia for contributions to the site and community of TWC. It allows members to post in the Capitol2, to propose3 other members for Citizenship, and to display one of three badges: Artifex, signifying modding contributions; Civitate, signifying writing and debating contributions; and Citizen, signifying both or other contributions.4

    Members can resign their citizenship or any other award and request it back at will, barring revocation.5 Citizenship can only be revoked by the Curia6 or the Administration7.
    Article II. The Curator and Curial OfficersCitizens elect and can run for8 Curial Officer positions: Magistrates, Censors and the Curator.9

    The Curator is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks are accomplished.10 Magistrates review Moderation actions and Censors the conduct of citizens.6
    Undue absence or negligence may lead to an officer's removal from office.11

    Regulations and Procedures to Section I
    1 To be awarded with Citizenship a member must fulfill the minimum requirements and be proposed by a Citizen, their Patron.
    Minimum Requirements: At least fifty posts; been registered for at least two months, and; not received a Moderation Warning or Curial Warning within the past six months.
    An individual may hold only one account awarded with Citizenship.

    2 Subject to the procedures in Section III

    3 To be able to patronise members for Citizenship the Citizen must have held their own Citizenship for three months.
    Patronisation Procedure:
    1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements and, with the candidate's consent, Moderation is requested to inform the patron and the Curator whether the moderation requirement is met.
    2. Given moderational clearance, the patron writes an introductory letter outlining why they are nominating the candidate.
    3. The candidate and patron formulate an application which highlights the candidate's contributions along with any supporting evidence/information.
    4. The patron posts the introductory letter and application in a new thread in the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum.
    5. After a two day discussion period the Curator adds a poll lasting five days.
    6. The discussion period can be extended at the discretion of the Curator, provided an explanation is given.
    7. If the candidate achieves sixty percent of non-abstaining votes, they are entitled to the award of Citizenship.
    8. The Curator informs the candidate and patron of the result. If the candidate does not pass they are not eligible to apply again for one month after the conclusion of the poll.

    4 If a member is entitled to other badges, they may choose which badge to display whilst regardlessly retaining all privileges conferred by their positions and honours.

    5 Reinstatement of Citizenship will only be permitted if the petitioner has no active Curial suspensions, and has not received a Moderation Warning (subsequent to the resignation) within six months of the request. Members who resign their Citizen status are not bound by the obligations of Citizenship whilst on leave, but any misbehaviour prior to a request of reinstatement can be subject to Referral (if the petitioner is readmitted).

    6 Subject to the procedures in Section IV

    7 Any Citizen subject to an indefinite suspension will have their Citizenship automatically revoked by the Administration.

    8 Subject to the procedure in Section III, Article II

    9 They hold office for a period of three months from the day of their election.

    10 They must appoint a Citizen to assist with this. No matter who carries out these tasks, the Curator is the one responsible for seeing that they are done promptly and correctly.

    11 If the Curator is absent (has not logged into the site) for seven days without giving a notice of absence, is absent for more than fifteen days regardless of notice, resigns, or is subject to a successful Vote of No Confidence (VoNC), they are automatically removed from office along with any appointed assistants. Any decisions of the office shall be held over until a replacement is elected. When such a decision is time-limited, time from the moment the office of Curator is empty does not count towards the limit until a new Curator is elected.
    When the office of the Curator is empty, the Censor whose term is closest to completion will organize the election of a new Curator, and assume day-to-day administration of the Curia.

    The jump/anchor tags work both ways and should make it sufficiently easy to jump to the relevant R&P if necessary and then jump back to the main text.

    Warning before opening the contentbox below: I re-watched Charly and the Chocolate Factory today and am thus in a perfect mood for a combination of bright colours and dystopian amounts of merciless machinery - a.k.a. amendment proposals.
    Version with changes marked
    Below is an attempt to show the above changes in relation to the current document. Deletions and Insertions in general text as usual. Stuff moved to the R&P at the end is in green. Most of it is just copied there, sometimes with miniscule adjustments for the change from a subclause to a footnote. Bold/underlined and crossed out green signify insertions and deletions in the moved text respectively.
    The only notable change, in my opinion, would be replacing the tautology about Curial officers being those officers elected by the Curia with the simple statement of which positions are elected by the Citizenry (which makes for a nice introductory sentence to the article anyway.)

    Short overview: Article II goes entirely to the R&P, non-R&P parts of Article I and III get merged to new Article I, Article IV becomes new Article II. EDIT: Updated with several of Shank's suggestions.

    Section I - Members, Citizenship and Curial Officers
    Article I. Members and Citizenship
    PeregrinityAny member of the forum is automatically a Peregrinus. This status confers the privilege topost in the public forums, as well as the privilege to ask questions and suggest changes in the Questions & Suggestions forum.
    CitizenshipCitizenship is the fundamental award conferred given by the Curia for contributions benefitting to the site and community of TWC. Contributing members of TWC have the opportunity to be awarded with this as per Section I, Article II. Once a member is awarded with Citizenship, they may then choose between three different badges: Artifex, designed for those who have contributed through modding signifying modding contributions; Civitate, designed for those who have contributed through debating and writing signifying writing and debating contributions, and; Citizen, designed for those who have contributed in other ways, or who wish to identify with neither or both signifying both or other contributions. If a member is entitled to other badges due to positions or honours held by them, they may choose which badge to display whilst regardlessly retaining all rights and privileges conferred by their positions and honours.

    To be awarded with Citizenship a member must fulfill the minimum requirements and be patronised proposed by a Citizen, their Patron. To qualify for Citizenship, a member must have Minimum Requirements: at least fifty posts; been registered for at least two months, and; not received a Moderation Warning or Curial Warning within the past six months.


    Citizenship It confers additional privileges: allows members to post within the Curia Capitol, subject to the procedures in Section III; to post within the Symposium, and; to patronise propose other members for citizenship , as per Section I, Article II and to display one of three badges.

    An individual may hold only one account awarded with Citizenship.
    Article II. PatronisationAny Citizen who has held their Citizenship for three months can patronise a Peregrinus for Citizenship subject to the requirements in Article I above. The process of patronisation is as follows: To be able to patronise members for Citizenship the Citizen must have held their own Citizenship for three months.
    Patronisation Procedure:


    1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements and, with the candidate's consent, mModeration is requested to inform the patron and the Curator whether the moderational requirement is met.
    2. Given moderational clearance, the patron writes an introductory letter outlining why they are nominating the candidate.
    3. The candidate and patron formulate an application which highlights the candidate's contributions along with any supporting evidence/information.
    4. The patron posts the introductory letter and application in a new thread in the Quaestiones Perpetuae forum.
    5. After a two day discussion period has passed, the Curator adds a poll lasting five days.
    6. The discussion period can be extended at the discretion of the Curator, provided an explanation is given.
    7. If the candidate achieves sixty per cent of non-abstaining votes, they are entitled to the award of Citizenship.
    8. The Curator informs the candidate and patron of the result. If the candidate does not pass, the Curator includes the date at which they may re-apply. If the candidate passes, they may apply to Citizen usergroups, which the Curator accepts.

    If a candidate fails, they are not eligible to apply again for one month after the conclusion of the poll.
    Article III. Resignation and Revocation of AwardsMembers who have been granted Citizenship or any other award can resign their honours Citizenship or any other award, and may request them back at will if they have not been revoked in the meantime , barring revocation. Citizenship can only be revoked by the Curia or the Administration. Reinstatement of Citizenship will only be permitted if the petitioner has no active Curial suspensions, and has not received a Moderation Warning (subsequent to the resignation) within six months of the request. Members who resign their Citizen status are not bound by the obligations of Citizenship whilst on leave, but any misbehaviour prior to a request of reinstatement can be subject to Referral (if the petitioner is readmitted).

    Citizenship may be revoked by Subject to the procedure outlined in Section IV, Article I.

    Any Citizen subject to an indefinite suspension will have their Citizenship automatically revoked by the Administration.
    Article IV. The Curator and Curial OfficersThe Curator shall Citizens elect and can run for Curial Officer positions: Magistrates, Censors and the Curator. They hold office for a period of three months from the day of their election, carried out by Subject to the procedure in Section III, Article II.
    If the Curator is absent (has not logged into the site) for seven days without giving a notice of absence, is absent for more than fifteen days regardless of notice, resigns, or is subject to a successful Vote of No Confidence (VoNC), they are automatically removed from office along with any appointed assistants.

    Any decisions of the office shall be held over until a replacement is elected. When such a decision is time-limited, time from the moment the office of Curator is empty shall does not count towards the limit and will only continue when until a new Curator is elected. When the office of the Curator is empty, the Censor whose term is closest to completion will organize the election of a new Curator, and assume day-to-day administration of the Curia.


    The Curator is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks are accomplished. Upon entering office, the Curator They must officially appoint at least one a Citizen to fulfil the Curator's role on a planned or unplanned absence, and should the Curator wish, to assist with day-to-day tasks assist with this. No matter who carries out these tasks assigned to the elected Curator, the Curator is the one responsible for seeing that they are done promptly and correctly. Magistrates review moderation actions and Censors the conduct of citizens.

    Curial Officers are Citizens who have been elected by the Curia to fulfil a certain role for the site. All Curial elected positions are Curial Offices, unless stated otherwise.


    One might consider gathering all general information about award handling in Article I, given that awards are a central task of the Curia, but for the time being it is probably better to just reorganise the contents of this section. If we get to Sections IV and V we can then consider whether to move parts to Sec I.

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    Last edited by Iskar; April 06, 2017 at 10:32 AM.
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    b0Gia de Bodemloze's Avatar Europa Barbarorum Dev
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Support!
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    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Support from me too. Although I suspect a few minor changes to the text will be suggested that will lead to me reaffirming the support at least once.

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    Flinn's Avatar May the Forza (Italia) be with you!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    yeah overall I'm ok with that, waiting for other people's input though
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    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Support.

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    Tango12345's Avatar Never mind the manoeuvres...
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Issues to fix in note 3.

    The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements and, with the candidate's consent, mModeration is requested to inform the patron and the Curator whether the moderational requirement is met.

  7. #7
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Issues fixed.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Thoroughly support. I can't see any problem with the changes and like the flow of the new sections.
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    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Support without any hesitation
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    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    support
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    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    So far support seems to be unanimous. I'd wait until Monday, though, so we'd have at least a week to digest the suggested changes and articulate possible reservations. I'd be particularly interested in whether those having opposed the previous Decision would be fine with the proposal above.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    I'm not sure... to me it just seems to make the document more confusing with all the jumps and footnotes etc. when compared to the current format, not that the current Constitution doesn't need improving. With that in mind I won't oppose and will probably abstain on the vote - I'm all for changing it and as I haven't though of anything I'm not going to be against someone who has, especially as it is enjoying a lot of support.
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    StealthFox's Avatar Consensus Achieved
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    That's the way I feel too. I haven't commented on this because I'm not convinced this is an improvement, but I don't think it makes it any worse either.

  14. #14
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    A footnote may in itself convey the impression of complexity but that is a small price to pay, I'd say, for making the main text of the Constitution much more readable and flowing. With the above you can read the relevant principles of Section one without being put off by the technicalities, and if the technicalities are in fact needed once in a while you can easily jump to them via the annotation without having to dig through paragraphs of "... for a duration of no less than ...", "... subject to the procedures in Section ..." and so on.

    I can understand that you guys with an administrative "Curial biography" would take reading the Constitution as reading all of it, but I'd say such a document should be accomodated to everyone governed by it and not just us digital legalists.

    PS: Probably needless to say, "legalist" or references to administrative leanings are not being used in a derogatory manner. In fact, given my personal preferences you may consider it one of my strongest compliments.
    Last edited by Iskar; February 20, 2017 at 08:21 PM.
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    Shankbot de Bodemloze's Avatar From the Writers Study!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    I guess my thought is if I was a new member/Citizen and saw this as a document I was meant to read I would open it and be like 'wow there is a lot to follow here, why do I have to keep flicking between all these different parts to read it'. I know the current Constitution has a lot to follow, but at least it's in one straight order, this way just seems to make something already quite confusing to new people even more so. Who knows, maybe people wouldn't approach it like that or perhaps there just needs to be a notice that says in the Preamble or something 'you don't have to read the regulations, they are just for people who are interested in the more details procedures of the Curia' (better worded than that though!).

    Heck, perhaps it would be better to get rid of all the footnotes etc. and just make it as simple as possible to follow, then underneath each section just have the Rules and Regs which can be as complex as you like (i.e. instead of following a footnote from the main section to its complimentary part you'd just have the list of procedures written out) because they'd only be for people who were interested - the average member shouldn't need to read them to be able to post in the Curia and make proposals and stuff.

    Still, as I mentioned above I really have no idea which would be the best approach to take because I'm coming from the mind of someone who is comfortable in his understanding of the Curia. Sure I can try and speculate how new members might see it, but I really don't know if that is the case
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    Shankbot de Bodemloze's Avatar From the Writers Study!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    This is just me taking a quick stab at it, but maybe something like this:


    Section I - Members, Citizenship and Curial Officers
    Article I. Members and CitizenshipAny member of the forum is automatically a Peregrinus and may post in the public forums, including the Questions & Suggestions forum. Not relevant for the Curia.

    Citizenship is the fundamentalan award conferred1given to members by the Curia for contributions benefitting theto the site and community of TWC. It confers the privileges toallows you to [or Citizens maybe?] post within the Capitol2forums [link this part], to patronise3propose other members for Citizenship, and to display aone of three special badges4.

    Have a picture of the badges here

    An individual may hold only one account awarded with Citizenship. Members can resign their citizenship or any other award and request it back at will, barring revocation.5 Citizenship can only be revoked by the Curia6 or the Administration7 Not really needed if it's just basics - maybe say here how they are expected to behave to higher standard though?
    Article II. The Curator and Curial OfficersThe CitizenryCitizens elects8and can be elected to different positions on the site. These positions are known as Curial Officers [this part might not be needed]:which are Magistrates, Censors and the Curator. They hold office for a period of three months from the day of their election. Not needed for basic understanding of the Curia.

    Picture of the badges

    The Curator is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks are accomplishedand must appoint a Citizen to assist with this. No matter who carries out these tasks, the Curator is the one responsible for seeing that they are done promptly and correctly.
    Undue absence or negligence may lead to the Curator's removal from office.9
    Maybe include a similar line for the other positions?

    When the office of the Curator is empty, the Censor whose term is closest to completion will organize the election of a new Curator, and assume day-to-day administration of the Curia. Not needed for a basic understanding.


    From there just have a section underneath which deals with all the detail and procedures etc..

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    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Quote Originally Posted by Shankbot de Bodemloze View Post
    I guess my thought is if I was a new member/Citizen and saw this as a document I was meant to read I would open it and be like 'wow there is a lot to follow here, why do I have to keep flicking between all these different parts to read it'. I know the current Constitution has a lot to follow, but at least it's in one straight order, this way just seems to make something already quite confusing to new people even more so. Who knows, maybe people wouldn't approach it like that or perhaps there just needs to be a notice that says in the Preamble or something 'you don't have to read the regulations, they are just for people who are interested in the more details procedures of the Curia' (better worded than that though!).

    Heck, perhaps it would be better to get rid of all the footnotes etc. and just make it as simple as possible to follow, then underneath each section just have the Rules and Regs which can be as complex as you like (i.e. instead of following a footnote from the main section to its complimentary part you'd just have the list of procedures written out) because they'd only be for people who were interested - the average member shouldn't need to read them to be able to post in the Curia and make proposals and stuff.

    Still, as I mentioned above I really have no idea which would be the best approach to take because I'm coming from the mind of someone who is comfortable in his understanding of the Curia. Sure I can try and speculate how new members might see it, but I really don't know if that is the case
    I can tell you shankbot that as a newbie iskars
    proposal will make the document look les daunting so you wil be more stimulated to read it instead of the daunting wall of text that it is now IMHO
    hopefully joerock22 will also give his opion since he is also new here
    EDIT
    Quote Originally Posted by Shankbot de Bodemloze View Post
    This is just me taking a quick stab at it, but maybe something like this:


    Section I - Members, Citizenship and Curial Officers
    Article I. Members and CitizenshipAny member of the forum is automatically a Peregrinus and may post in the public forums, including the Questions & Suggestions forum. Not relevant for the Curia.

    Citizenship is the fundamentalan award conferred1given to members by the Curia for contributions benefitting theto the site and community of TWC. It confers the privileges toallows you to [or Citizens maybe?] post within the Capitol2forums [link this part], to patronise3propose other members for Citizenship, and to display aone of three special badges4.

    Have a picture of the badges here

    An individual may hold only one account awarded with Citizenship. Members can resign their citizenship or any other award and request it back at will, barring revocation.5 Citizenship can only be revoked by the Curia6 or the Administration7 Not really needed if it's just basics - maybe say here how they are expected to behave to higher standard though?
    Article II. The Curator and Curial OfficersThe CitizenryCitizens elects8and can be elected to different positions on the site. These positions are known as Curial Officers [this part might not be needed]:which are Magistrates, Censors and the Curator. They hold office for a period of three months from the day of their election. Not needed for basic understanding of the Curia.

    Picture of the badges

    The Curator is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks are accomplishedand must appoint a Citizen to assist with this. No matter who carries out these tasks, the Curator is the one responsible for seeing that they are done promptly and correctly.
    Undue absence or negligence may lead to the Curator's removal from office.9
    Maybe include a similar line for the other positions?

    When the office of the Curator is empty, the Censor whose term is closest to completion will organize the election of a new Curator, and assume day-to-day administration of the Curia. Not needed for a basic understanding.


    From there just have a section underneath which deals with all the detail and procedures etc..

    this also looks promissing
    Last edited by ♔atthias♔; February 21, 2017 at 12:15 PM.
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    Shankbot de Bodemloze's Avatar From the Writers Study!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Quote Originally Posted by atthias
    I can tell you shankbot that as a newbie iskars
    proposal will make the document look les daunting so you wil be more stimulated to read it instead of the daunting wall of text that it is now IMHO
    Thank-you for the perspective, that's great to hear! Out of interest, did you feel a need to flick through between the different sections and footnotes when reading through or did just read the main part and delve into the Regulation bit only if you were interested in more/seeking clarification?
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  19. #19
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    I thought the footnotes made it easier to find the regulations and procedures relevant to each basic principle in the "flow" text, but removing them and just having the drop down box at the end of the section is most easily done, if that is your main concern. I'd be interested in hearing what atthias and joerock have to say about this, too, as my administration-borg perspective is likely terribly skewed in this.

    Your suggestion above is rather interesting. Since there is no need to rush things, I'll take a closer look at it and see how much can be combined with the proposal above.
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  20. #20
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Condensing Section I

    Quote Originally Posted by Shankbot de Bodemloze View Post
    Thank-you for the perspective, that's great to hear! Out of interest, did you feel a need to flick through between the different sections and footnotes when reading through or did just read the main part and delve into the Regulation bit only if you were interested in more/seeking clarification?
    yeah would delve only in the regulation bit if needed to understand something in more detail
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