Laziest TTW game ever made?

[Emishi]

I don't get why the devs got so damn lazy on this game.

They have a total of, what, 7 different models , which they reskinned as new units with slightly botched up stats.

The unit variety is extremely limited to begin with, for no ing apparent reason. Don't give me that 'it was a civil war and they want to stay true to the historical monotony'.

This is nonsense. Historical accuracy has to make room for gameplay all the time in ttw games. And it did in Shogun 2 as well.
There are no James Bond battlefield ninjas and all katana all samurai units in japanese warfare. So is the true reason a limitation of the engine at the time?

Why not use these liberties to come up with something half way interesting and creative, while maybe even referring to a historical footnote.

But no. Let's create bulletproof samurai who look exactly like normal samurai, long spear ashigaru looking like normal ashigaru and Elite Cavalry looking just like infantry on horse.

Don't get me started on the decision to make a 'The Last samurai TM expansion - totally historically accurate edition, I swear' instead of the imjin war, because muh feelings.

Worst game? By no stretch of the imagination. Most disappointing, uncreative one? Hell yeah.

What is your stance or rationalization of this flaw? Maybe if I got other views, I could be more forgiving.

[WhiskeySykes]

Your feelings are out of proportion. How many models are enough? These are sandbox games, so it's difficult to be historically accurate, when the player is free to suck or win. Rather, they're more like historical scenarios. I can't share your feelings, mostly because Shogun 2 is deeply strategic and tactical. Unit variety doesn't matter to me, especially not in roe, sham, beu. It's mechanics are fun and balanced. I enjoy S2 the most of any Total War, so I guess I can't agree.

[baselhun]

It is maden by lazies. They didn't even offer us modding flexibility as much as they gave us in med 2 an rtw. About the strategy, thank you for adding non existing units, and not giving manpower about like in medieval 2, which gives us option to recruit full samurai armies, isnt that beautiful?. Also thanks for adding only 1 economy building what a great strategy. Startegy is not and should be not about limiting the player in a non realistic way. If I have the money, I should build things whereever I want. I medieval 2 unless you're economic powerhouse in game, you couldn't build barracs and public order buildings everywhere because you simply need to use that money for better purpose. That's the strategy.

Taking away features which made the game more realistic is unforgivable behaviour. I try to fix this game more than I play it.

[Christonikos]

The most polished Total War game, whose campaign is actually challenging with aggressive AI and whose multiplayer community is actually active after so many years, is the laziest?

And for unit variety, compare it with the other total war, but from 1 culture.
See the Greeks in Rome 2. Hoplites. Hoplites with bigger shields. Hoplites with armour. Hoplites with better armour. Romans: Legionnaires, Legionnaires with bigger shields, Legionnaires with better armour and helmets, Legionnaires with spears, Legionnaires with more men, Legionnaires , Legionnaires and more Legionnaires.
Empire: Grey soldiers against Blue soldiers against Red against Green.
Napoleon: Blue Soldiers against Grey soldiers against Red soldiers but with different hats.
Oh, and if you compare Shogun 1 units with the new one, you 'll see there are way more units now.

Although I can agree with you that the Sengoku Jidai's Units' models look more like a mod than an official DLC, since they are almost the same with in game units (Wako raiders being naked samurai, Long yari being ashigaru with a bit longer spears, etc)
As far as the 2 campaign expansions are concerned, I cannot have any complaint, because I found the both very interesting, gameplay-wise.
And finally about creativity. Well, I find Shogun 2 by far the most aestheticly pleasing Total War out there. With vivid colours, high contrast. One battle at the bright green fields, followed by the next one at the white snowy fields turning red from the blood, and then followed by a naval battle at the deep blue sea of Japan. Compare this wth the fifty shades of , I mean brown, from Rome 2 and Attila. Even fantasy title warhammer is darker and more dull, thus less appealing.

[EllEzDee]

The most polished Total War game, whose campaign is actually challenging with aggressive AI and whose multiplayer community is actually active after so many years, is the laziest?

And for unit variety, compare it with the other total war, but from 1 culture.
See the Greeks in Rome 2. Hoplites. Hoplites with bigger shields. Hoplites with armour. Hoplites with better armour. Romans: Legionnaires, Legionnaires with bigger shields, Legionnaires with better armour and helmets, Legionnaires with spears, Legionnaires with more men, Legionnaires , Legionnaires and more Legionnaires.
Empire: Grey soldiers against Blue soldiers against Red against Green.
Napoleon: Blue Soldiers against Grey soldiers against Red soldiers but with different hats.
Oh, and if you compare Shogun 1 units with the new one, you 'll see there are way more units now.

Although I can agree with you that the Sengoku Jidai's Units' models look more like a mod than an official DLC, since they are almost the same with in game units (Wako raiders being naked samurai, Long yari being ashigaru with a bit longer spears, etc)
As far as the 2 campaign expansions are concerned, I cannot have any complaint, because I found the both very interesting, gameplay-wise.
And finally about creativity. Well, I find Shogun 2 by far the most aestheticly pleasing Total War out there. With vivid colours, high contrast. One battle at the bright green fields, followed by the next one at the white snowy fields turning red from the blood, and then followed by a naval battle at the deep blue sea of Japan. Compare this wth the fifty shades of , I mean brown, from Rome 2 and Attila. Even fantasy title warhammer is darker and more dull, thus less appealing.

Empire was fairly bland, but still head, shoulders knees and toes above Shogun 2 in terms of depth, variety -- you name it.
It wasn't just recolours. There was a vast difference in unit costs and unit stats across the board between different factions. Some factions had unique technology. Some were unique in the number of troops they had. Lots of faction had unique units, too.

Austria had poor infantry, but made up for it with slightly bigger infantry units, and strong, unique light infantry.
Britain had strong hulled, accurate ships, and unique units to represent the East India Company and the Hessians.
Shogun 2 has 2 unique unit models (peasant and samurai) with slightly varied stats. 10/10

"This man is bullet proof because he has +1 armour" is the extent of Shogun 2's variety.

The reason S2 is considered "polished" is because it so rigidly follows rock-paper-scissors. The reality is that it's vapid and devoid of content.

[WhiskeySykes]

I enjoy Shogun 2 for the reasons it turned many off. Narrow timeline, restrictive unit selection, the setting. Unit variety is overrated, nor does it make any sense in Sengoku Jidai. It's far better to have units remain relevant, than scores of units outmoded by mid-game.

Where S2 failed were melee and battlemaps. The same old mechanics and campaign battle map scenarios were lazily copied over, as they have been from Total War to Total War. You can see they made no effort to reproduce feudal Japan's nightmarish sludges through labyrinthine castle towns. They made no real use of the special units they did make. Chiefly, they merely reskinned legionaries to look Japanese. This is the single most jarring mistake in S2, far worse than the brainfart that became Realm Divide.

I would like to have seen a (breakable) chain of command mechanic, true fog of war where formations deteriorate and disperse in melee, raiding supply trains trailing armies, riders that can actually survive their horses, and siege battles including urban combat in the jokamachi. These were as characteristic of feudal Japan as samurai, but you won't find them in any Sengoku simulator in the market. Really, some of these are overdue for any Total War.

[Lin Huichi]

There were far less negatives in Shogun 2 then the other total wars.

[LinusLinothorax]

I can only think of three negative points in Shogun 2: Unit variety, the hardcoded 1 v 1 melee fighting and that horsearchers can't shoot beyond their back. The first one is the most drastic one, but can easily be moded. In total, Shogun 2 remains my favourite vanilla TW game.

[Theramines]

I bought it last August and have played 18 hours total since then. It is well-made I suppose. I can see it's balanced and polished far better than its predecessors and successors. But it's deadly dull.

[Winter Wolf]

What? Have you played any TTW after this title? Do that, then come back and tell me again how it's lazy. LOL! Easily the most polished and deep TTW game, second to Medieval II.

But no. Let's create bulletproof samurai who look exactly like normal samurai, long spear ashigaru looking like normal ashigaru and Elite Cavalry looking just like infantry on horse.

Yeeeeah you may have forgotten. THIS is every Total War game.

[Ekster]

I'm enjoying Shogun 2 a lot, until that inevitable moment where Realm Divide messes up your game, breaks your economy, trade and diplomacy and takes away all the fun. But before that it's a great game.

[Havie]

I can only think of three negative points in Shogun 2: Unit variety, the hardcoded 1 v 1 melee fighting and that horsearchers can't shoot beyond their back. The first one is the most drastic one, but can easily be moded. In total, Shogun 2 remains my favourite vanilla TW game.

This is most true.
Its not that hard to mod in new models, thank god they gave us that option,
Unlike this 1v1 mechanic I am so desperately trying to get around...
Realmdivide much worse than horse archer issue lol

Also the graphics in this game look way more vivid and proportionate than any other TW game including warhammer, its trash. Ill take shogun2 graphics anyday

[Huberto]

The unit variety is extremely limited to begin with, for no ing apparent reason. Don't give me that 'it was a civil war and they want to stay true to the historical monotony'.

This is nonsense. Historical accuracy has to make room for gameplay all the time in ttw games.

As others have said, unit and faction diversity doesn't make TW games good or bad. Good AI, strategic and tactical challenges, overlaid with a good political and economic system is what makes or breaks TW games.

[Basil II the B.S]

What? Have you played any TTW after this title? Do that, then come back and tell me again how it's lazy. LOL! Easily the most polished and deep TTW game, second to Medieval II.



Yeeeeah you may have forgotten. THIS is every Total War game.

M2 was a buggy mess. While I definitely enjoyed it at the time and have probably 800 hours playing it, it was Rome core game with a graphical enhancement. The 3 Italian factions had the 3 Rome AIs which caused them to steamroll Europe.

Shogun 2? I'm not sure. I haven't played it enough to judge the Realm Divide mechanic, which is a serious game changer. However it's a rare game where you can't and often you don't want to upgrade every building because of some adverse impacts.
On the other side, in Rome, M2, Empire afte a while upgrading would simply go on autopilot as you have an income of 30k. Hell even with a faction like Empire's Russia, whose half of the starting region are economically useless, you can still make 10k by turn 10 on VH. On Shogun 2 you are doing good if you make 3k by then.