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Thread: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

  1. #61
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post


    "Philip had had his taste of the Hellenic ideal during his time at Thebes. As a king, he invited Greek philosophers and teachers to come to Macedonia. His entire court spoke Athenian Greek. Philip didn't want to destroy Greece; he wanted to be Greece. He was like the nerd at the back of the class who wanted to join the frat party and become one of the cool guys, albeit a little bit tougher."

    Peter Weller, everybody, aka ROBOCOP. Perfect. He should just narrate everything, like Morgan Freeman.
    Good old times when History Channel dealt with history.
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί· τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

  2. #62
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Peter Weller = cool = 356 BC = Murphy
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
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  3. #63
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    For anyone who's interested, I've created a new article split from the main one: "History of Macedonia (ancient kingdom)"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...cient_kingdom)

    The article has already been awarded Good status, but in anticipation of nominating this article for Featured Status, I will need to reduce its main-body prose size by a few thousand KB at the least. If anyone has any feedback for things that could be cut or moved to other articles, that would be highly appreciated!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    The funny thing is that Peter Weller actually has a PhD in history from UCLA. Specifically his degrees are in Classical history and "Roman and Renaissance Art". Robocop just got cooler.
    Yep, he's certainly qualified to narrate historical stuff, in addition to hand-crushing the skulls of violent criminals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ View Post
    Good old times when History Channel dealt with history.
    Seems like ancient history already! The closest thing they have to a history program now is Pawn Stars.

    It's very similar to MTV no longer playing music videos.

  4. #64
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    In addition to the new "History" article I've linked in the post above, I've also created a new article on the ancient Macedonian government:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govern...cient_kingdom)

    I basically took the materials from the main article and then summarized the new article in the corresponding section of the main one.

  5. #65
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Very interesting. I will have to give it my thorough inspection.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  6. #66
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    In addition to the new "History" article I've linked in the post above, I've also created a new article on the ancient Macedonian government:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govern...cient_kingdom)

    I basically took the materials from the main article and then summarized the new article in the corresponding section of the main one.
    That's very detailed, you made an excellent contribution to Wikipedia!
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί· τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

  7. #67
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Very Nice may I add a quibble or 2...

    "By the end of the conquests of Alexander the Great, thirty different mints stretching from Macedonia to Babylon produced standard coins.[374]"


    You need to follow the source. The actual number is 23. By any rounding standard that is 20 not 30. Nor is there really much a policy aside from Alexander paying his troops. Importantly the mints never get farther than Babylon. Really you have Alexander more or less simply doing what Darius did coins where he needed them.

    "Yet the right to mint coins was shared by central and some local governments, i.e. the autonomous municipal governments of Thessaloniki, Pella, and Amphipolis within the Macedonian commonwealth.[375]"

    I feel the use of commonwealth is fundamentally inappropriate. You mean kingdom the private property of its monarch.

    "The Macedonians were also the first to issue different coins for internal and external circulation.
    [376]"


    A strange assertion in the original source. A guess by the historian at best and really pointless in any case I mean really all you have is evidence that Macedonian had to issue currency in denominations demanded of it that is not very impressive. I don't see any reason to suggest it as an innovation. Who else followed suite? To what gain? Macedonia was a follower when it comes to currency - not really any innovation to see.




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  8. #68
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Very Nice may I add a quibble or 2...

    "By the end of the conquests of Alexander the Great, thirty different mints stretching from Macedonia to Babylon produced standard coins.[374]"


    You need to follow the source. The actual number is 23. By any rounding standard that is 20 not 30. Nor is there really much a policy aside from Alexander paying his troops. Importantly the mints never get farther than Babylon. Really you have Alexander more or less simply doing what Darius did coins where he needed them.
    I'm sorry, are you saying that Price (1991: 72) claimed the number was twenty-three? I say that because the source I'm citing here (who cites Price as his source) is Andrew Meadows' book chapter in Oleson's Oxford Handbook of Engineering and Technology in the Classical World (2010: 773), and he says: "by the time of [Alexander's] death, almost thirty different production centers were producing virtually identical coins, from Macedonia in the west to Babylon in the east."

    I will amend the statement to say "nearly thirty", although if you'd like it to say twenty-three, I'm going to need that quote from Price if you have it. Otherwise I'm afraid the article will stay as is, because I do not have another source on hand.

    "Yet the right to mint coins was shared by central and some local governments, i.e. the autonomous municipal governments of Thessaloniki, Pella, and Amphipolis within the Macedonian commonwealth.[375]"

    I feel the use of commonwealth is fundamentally inappropriate. You mean kingdom the private property of its monarch.
    It is not my terminology; it is one that is used by several scholars when discussing the Koinon of Macedonians. You're mistaking the kingdom proper (which had clearly defined borders) with the confederation of Macedonian-held and garrisoned settlements that otherwise maintained varying degrees of autonomy but still swore allegiance to the Macedonian king. It is to be regarded as being very similar to the other Greek leagues or koina. The democratic city of Amphipolis, with its constitution and treaty with Macedonia, is a good illustrative example of what I'm talking about.


    "The Macedonians were also the first to issue different coins for internal and external circulation.
    [376]"


    A strange assertion in the original source. A guess by the historian at best and really pointless in any case I mean really all you have is evidence that Macedonian had to issue currency in denominations demanded of it that is not very impressive. I don't see any reason to suggest it as an innovation. Who else followed suite? To what gain? Macedonia was a follower when it comes to currency - not really any innovation to see.


    Okay. I can't really argue for or against that since I don't know much about the subject. Do you at least have a source that provides a counterargument? That's something I could use in the article. Our own private musings about it, however, are not permissible over at Wiki, because that is tantamount to "original research", a cardinal sin in their guidebook. We're only really supposed to report what secondary sources say on the matter, although we have a good amount of license when it comes to constructing an article, using a variety of sources to piece together a narrative. I'm also able to be judicious about what goes in or out of an article, so if you have a source that convinces me otherwise, I'll gladly remove this statement as giving too much weight to one particular historian versus the consensus of others.

  9. #69
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Just letting you guys know that my article is now a Featured Article candidate! Here's the review page thus far:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...gdom)/archive1

  10. #70
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Good luck with that. Is there somewhere that I can vote or something?

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  11. #71
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Good luck with that. Is there somewhere that I can vote or something?
    Well...I'm not allowed to canvass for votes or anything, but you can see the review process if you follow the URL link I provided in the previous post. Just saying!

  12. #72
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    I hate to brag or boast, but I'll just let you guys know that my featured article "Sino-Roman relations" is currently on the front page of English Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations

  13. #73
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Very nice!

    Did you use "From the Jade Gate to Rome" by any chance? That book is fairly rare however you could use the Hou Hanshu as a source I believe.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  14. #74
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    GG, this is probably one of the highest honours a Wikipedia author can achieve.
    Last edited by LinusLinothorax; April 18, 2017 at 07:08 AM.

  15. #75
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Very interesting article, well done!
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί· τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

  16. #76
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Very nice!

    Did you use "From the Jade Gate to Rome" by any chance? That book is fairly rare however you could use the Hou Hanshu as a source I believe.
    Huh. Are you talking about Through the Jade Gate to Rome (2009) by John E. Hill or something else? I cited Hill's book. To be honest the most useful sources were Henry Yule, Rafe de Crespigny, and Warwick Ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by LinusLinothorax View Post
    GG, this is probably one of the highest honours a Wikipedia author can achieve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ View Post
    Very interesting article, well done!
    Thanks guys!

  17. #77
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Yeah I did mean that one. Hill's main source is the Hou Hanshu if I am not mistaken.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  18. #78

    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    re price and number of mints issueing coins in alexanders liftime, he states 22 in persia, 2 in macedonia, 1 in egypt. if no acess to his book,try a search on 25 mints in alex lifetime, or dating coins from alexanders time look for brown edu. 31 shortly after his death, over 50 a century later.
    Last edited by Hanny; April 23, 2017 at 09:35 AM.
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  19. #79
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    And so it begins. Lol. I've nominated the article "Ancient Macedonians" for GA status as well, but already on the talk page a storm is brewing over the ethnic identity of the Ancient Macedonians. As you could have guessed, there are editors from the "Republic of Macedonia" and Greece having a backyard brawl and stabbing each other with prison shivs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ancient_Macedonians

    Entertainment? All you can eat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Yeah I did mean that one. Hill's main source is the Hou Hanshu if I am not mistaken.
    I've read a good amount of his online stuff hosted by the University of Washington, but I never actually read his full book, so this is good to know!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanny View Post
    re price and number of mints issueing coins in alexanders liftime, he states 22 in persia, 2 in macedonia, 1 in egypt. if no acess to his book,try a search on 25 mints in alex lifetime, or dating coins from alexanders time look for brown edu. 31 shortly after his death, over 50 a century later.
    Thanks! I'll look into this.

  20. #80
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: I present to you, Macedonia (ancient kingdom) on Wikipedia, my present project

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    And so it begins. Lol. I've nominated the article "Ancient Macedonians" for GA status as well, but already on the talk page a storm is brewing over the ethnic identity of the Ancient Macedonians. As you could have guessed, there are editors from the "Republic of Macedonia" and Greece having a backyard brawl and stabbing each other with prison shivs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ancient_Macedonians

    Entertainment? All you can eat.
    No thanks, I opt to preserve my sanity... That said, people should at least apply a bit of logic when discussing things.
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί· τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

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