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Thread: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

  1. #581
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    VOICE is the new Trump's anti-Muslim program (not progrom...), stirring up fear and hatred against immigrants,
    Trump highlights victims of crimes by immigrants
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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  2. #582

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Gotta love the "facts are hateful" rhetoric form the left.

  3. #583
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alt-right neo-nazis to speak at Texas A&M University

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    At least Trump is somewhat pressuring them, especially on Syria issue, while Obama was just doing their bidding. The nature of relationship is changing, and hopefully we will see US view Saudi Arabia and other Gulf terrorist states as its enemies soon.
    Funny you should say that, seeing as how Trump's travel ban doesn't affect Saudi Arabia and continues selling weapons to them. Man...he's really puttin' the pressure on, huh
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  4. #584

    Default Re: Alt-right neo-nazis to speak at Texas A&M University

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Funny you should say that, seeing as how Trump's travel ban doesn't affect Saudi Arabia and continues selling weapons to them. Man...he's really puttin' the pressure on, huh
    Because travel ban is specifically for countries, form which terrorists can disguise themselves as immigrants and infiltrate US, which isn't the case with Saudis, where we already know the main terrorists are in the government. Trump did pressure Saudis to go along with his plans on safe zones in Syria. It is only a beginning. US used to sell weapons ot Saddam as well, at some point, that didn't help him in the long run.

  5. #585

    Default Re: Alt-right neo-nazis to speak at Texas A&M University

    Yeah, he sure is showing those Saudis who's boss by going along with their policy in Yemen, selling them weapons and exempting their citizens from a regional ban. I'm sure those weapons will in no way be used to further Saudi interests...
    Last edited by Napoleonic Bonapartism; March 10, 2017 at 03:57 PM.
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  6. #586

    Default Re: Alt-right neo-nazis to speak at Texas A&M University

    Trump is selling Saudis the means to give him an excuse later on, just like they did in 1980s by selling Saddam chemical weapons.
    Only difference being Saddam's removal was a mistake that lead to destabilization of the region, while removal of Saudis would greatly benefit the region.

  7. #587
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    Default Re: Alt-right neo-nazis to speak at Texas A&M University

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Because travel ban is specifically for countries, form which terrorists can disguise themselves as immigrants and infiltrate US, which isn't the case with Saudis, where we already know the main terrorists are in the government. Trump did pressure Saudis to go along with his plans on safe zones in Syria. It is only a beginning. US used to sell weapons ot Saddam as well, at some point, that didn't help him in the long run.
    You're aware that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi, right? You're also aware that we've had literally no attacks from citizens from any of the countries on his list, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Trump is selling Saudis the means to give him an excuse later on, just like they did in 1980s by selling Saddam chemical weapons.
    Only difference being Saddam's removal was a mistake that lead to destabilization of the region, while removal of Saudis would greatly benefit the region.
    So what you're saying is he's gonna push for another invasion in the Middle East? So more neocon shenanigans?

    (BTW, my reply before this, I thought I was posting in the immigration ban thread, damn touch screens )
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  8. #588

    Default Re: Alt-right neo-nazis to speak at Texas A&M University

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Trump is selling Saudis the means to give him an excuse later on, just like they did in 1980s by selling Saddam chemical weapons.
    Only difference being Saddam's removal was a mistake that lead to destabilization of the region, while removal of Saudis would greatly benefit the region.
    Just been through this like two weeks ago. The US did not sell chemical weapons to Saddam.
    The chemical stuff was sold by Germany and Brazil. The US did not arm Saddam. The vast majority of Saddam's arms came from the communist block countries (Soviet and eastern Europe was close to 70% with Red Chinese another 12%) This should not be surprising, as Iraq was essentially a Soviet client state. The French sold another 13 percent (source is the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute).
    Last edited by Infidel144; March 10, 2017 at 06:35 PM.

  9. #589
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Can we return to the point that this new travel ban is still illegal because the intent behind the law (muslim ban) is still unconstitutional and the trump administration failed to provide the 9th circuit court (or any court) with any reasoning as to how this ban helps promote national security?

    The sad thing is that this second ban is likely to be struck down again by a lower court. Trump's BS doesn't even take the supreme court to resolve.

  10. #590

    Default Re: Alt-right neo-nazis to speak at Texas A&M University

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Trump is selling Saudis the means to give him an excuse later on, just like they did in 1980s by selling Saddam chemical weapons.
    Only difference being Saddam's removal was a mistake that lead to destabilization of the region, while removal of Saudis would greatly benefit the region.
    This is simply fanfiction.
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  11. #591
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump View Post
    The sad thing is that this second ban is likely to be struck down again by a lower court.
    Yep...Federal judge not ready to rule on blocking new travel ban - ABC New
    federal judge in Seattle who issued the order temporarily halting nationwide implementation of President Donald Trump's initial travel ban said Friday that because of procedural reasons he won't immediately rule on whether his restraining order applies to the new travel ban...Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson said earlier this week that the revised travel ban has "the same illegal motivations as the original."
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  12. #592

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Trump can, and should, ignore the rulings of those district court judges.

    It is WELL outside the bounds of authority/jurisdiction for any judge to rule on a federal executive order dealing with immigration. The regulation of immigration is *exclusively* reserved for Congress and the President, and the President has the ultimate/final determination in who is allowed into the USA.

    http://www.wnd.com/2017/02/trump-ignore-the-court/

    Trump should simply state "the order is effective, the ruling by that judge means nothing."
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  13. #593
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    That reads like a really poor op-ed. The guy is just complaining about liberal judges overstepping their legal bounds, but doesn't show any evidence of it happening. American judicial review applies to anything constitutional, which includes executive orders.

    Didn't you just say in the Obama's legacy thread that you don't like Abraham Lincoln for ignoring checks and balances? Wouldn't Trump be doing the same thing if he did that?
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  14. #594

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    It's generally accepted that non-citizens have no right to migrate to the country, and that the executive branch has very broad powers to deny entry to any non-citizen. I am guessing that the Supremes will have to confirm this (again).

  15. #595

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ByzantinePowerGame View Post
    Trump can, and should, ignore the rulings of those district court judges.

    It is WELL outside the bounds of authority/jurisdiction for any judge to rule on a federal executive order dealing with immigration. The regulation of immigration is *exclusively* reserved for Congress and the President, and the President has the ultimate/final determination in who is allowed into the USA.

    http://www.wnd.com/2017/02/trump-ignore-the-court/

    Trump should simply state "the order is effective, the ruling by that judge means nothing."
    So, people have a right to ignore court ruling as they see fit? That seems to be the message you're championing here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    It's generally accepted that non-citizens have no right to migrate to the country, and that the executive branch has very broad powers to deny entry to any non-citizen. I am guessing that the Supremes will have to confirm this (again).
    Where was it confirmed before?
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  16. #596

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    That reads like a really poor op-ed. The guy is just complaining about liberal judges overstepping their legal bounds, but doesn't show any evidence of it happening. American judicial review applies to anything constitutional, which includes executive orders.

    Didn't you just say in the Obama's legacy thread that you don't like Abraham Lincoln for ignoring checks and balances? Wouldn't Trump be doing the same thing if he did that?

    Article 3, Section 2...


    Judicial review does not apply to EVERYTHING.




    In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.


    It has been consistently determined/held/agreed/understood that Congress can circumscribe the jurisdiction of the court or state "this law is not subject to judicial review" or they can specify that only state courts have jurisdiction over some matter, or they can reserve sole/exclusive jurisdiction to federal courts and strip state courts of jurisdiction [i.e. the bankruptcy code vests exclusive jurisdiction in federal courts].


    Immigration laws already passed by Congress state that the President has the sole power to determine eligibility for entering the nation.
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  17. #597

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisd...me_Court_cases


    Further federal statutes[edit]

    More recent examples of jurisdiction stripping include the following:

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  18. #598
    empr guy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    It's hard to see this being overturned based on "judicial overreach", the court has upheld suspensions of Obama's EO's regarding immigration in recent years and hasn't changed membership. The judges order to suspend the EO was also based on a supreme court decision that required the context of actions to be considered; and with the context of the campaign it's easy to see this is supposed to be about banning muslims. Congress could theoretically make a law stripping the courts of jurisdiction here but it would be a waste of their time and they doubtlessly know it.
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  19. #599
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Very disappointing for Trump's supporters that this administration isn't capable of framing a constitutionally valid EO on this matter. Treating Muslim refugees harshly was a plank in Trumps election platform, but he's failing to get it done.

    From the commentary I am seeing the legal response is sound, its just badly written orders that are the problem here.
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  20. #600

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    In February one district court judge held that it was constitutional/valid and he refused to block it.

    The EO is constitutionally valid and this area of law is not even subject to judicial review. Of the judges who think they are capable of reviewing it, most are getting it wrong.
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