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Thread: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

  1. #741

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    I clearly know the difference. It's Democratic politicians that apparently don't. When was the last time you heard a Democratic politician utter the words "illegal alien"?

    Democrats won't even use the two words "illegal" and "immigrant" in the same sentence. And it is amazing how fast that "refugees" suddenly become "immigrants" in the DNC jargon.

    You keep referring to laws that Democrats routinely ignore.


    Ok bud, you're right, millions of Hispanic illegal immigrants voted in the last election and that's why the Democrats want to bring in as many Muslim refugees as possible, preferably while subjugating the maximum amount of white women.
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  2. #742

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    I was only interested in the question concerning non-citizens voting. If you're interested in the rest of it you should look it up. Sigh...
    Zero evidence:

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a2c...f7b9461538.pdf
    http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/NYT-4...oter-fraud.pdf

    However we can show that attempts to stop 'voter fraud' in the US in the last 20 years have resulted in the opposite, voter suppression:

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2610113
    http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/58778/
    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/...65912914554039

    We can even show that wealthy elites in the media drive coverage of supposed voter fraud in even liberal media sources specifically to convey the idea that it does exist and is widespread:

    http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/68415/

    Strange considering your other stances that this is the one issue you listen to the false media on.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    I clearly know the difference. It's Democratic politicians that apparently don't. When was the last time you heard a Democratic politician utter the words "illegal alien"?
    Most republican politicians won't use it either because of the necessity to be specific in your language. Illegal is usually a descriptor that politicians use to describe criminal violations not civic administrative violations. Both party's preferred term is undocumented because this is accurate and refers to the administrative policy of documentation accurately. It also doesn't lose one votes which both parties are keen on.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Democrats won't even use the two words "illegal" and "immigrant" in the same sentence. And it is amazing how fast that "refugees" suddenly become "immigrants" in the DNC jargon.
    You do understand that all refugees from another country are by definition immigrants right? Like pull out a dictionary... or here since I know you wont:

    First definition: 1. a person who flees for refuge or safety, especially to a foreign country, as in time of political upheaval, war, etc.

    Immigrant: 1. a person who migrates to another country,

    Just in case you don't know what migrate is:

    Migrate: 1. to go from one country, region, or place to another.

    Odd. You seem to have some very odd perceptions about the english language.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    You keep referring to laws that Democrats routinely ignore.
    Like literally you couldn't be more wrong on this. There is no law dems routinely ignore.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    You wanted a link showing that Obama was encouraging non-citizens to vote and I gave you one. The woman was asking Obama if she, as a non-citizen, would get in trouble if she voted and he told her, and by extension her audience, that she wouldn't have any problems.
    Let's go back to the dictionary: Encourage: 2. to stimulate by assistance, approval, etc.:

    He's very careful to only state or imply citizens can vote. She did not ask if she as a non-citizen would get in trouble for voting, she asked if an undocumented person would be deported. It's true ICE does not get the voting ballots, it's also true that every vote is verified and cross referenced.

  3. #743
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post


    Ok bud, you're right, millions of Hispanic illegal immigrants voted in the last election and that's why the Democrats want to bring in as many Muslim refugees as possible, preferably while subjugating the maximum amount of white women.
    So you can't find an example of a Democrat politician calling illegal aliens exactly what they are, so you posted a picture of someone who looks like they are from San Francisco.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump View Post




    Most republican politicians won't use it either because of the necessity to be specific in your language. Illegal is usually a descriptor that politicians use to describe criminal violations not civic administrative violations. Both party's preferred term is undocumented because this is accurate and refers to the administrative policy of documentation accurately. It also doesn't lose one votes which both parties are keen on.
    So you're admitting there are Republicans who do use the term, but democrats will not.











    Quote Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump View Post

    Like literally you couldn't be more wrong on this. There is no law dems routinely ignore.
    I guess cities ran by democrats who are declaring themselves sanctuary cities and refusing to obey federal law by not handing over prisoners to ICE as required by Federal Law is not ignoring the law according to you.




    Quote Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump View Post

    He's very careful to only state or imply citizens can vote. She did not ask if she as a non-citizen would get in trouble for voting, she asked if an undocumented person would be deported. It's true ICE does not get the voting ballots, it's also true that every vote is verified and cross referenced.
    BS. She clearly asked him a hypothetical question about non-citizens voting and he clearly said there wouldn't be a problem.

  4. #744

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    So you can't find an example of a Democrat politician calling illegal aliens exactly what they are, so you posted a picture of someone who looks like they are from San Francisco.
    What? Why do I need to present you with a politician referring to people as illegal aliens? That is a guy wearing a tinfoil hat, by the way, a common reference to people who maintain conspiracy theories such as millions of illegal immigrants voting in our elections. Shouldn't you be storming pizza restaurants checking for child sex trafficking rings?
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  5. #745
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    What? Why do I need to present you with a politician referring to people as illegal aliens? That is a guy wearing a tinfoil hat, by the way, a common reference to people who maintain conspiracy theories such as millions of illegal immigrants voting in our elections. Shouldn't you be storming pizza restaurants checking for child sex trafficking rings?
    Ah, there it is. It always come down like this. When liberals have lost an argument they always resort to something from their Holy Trinity. It's always someone is a racist, right-wing nut job, or conspiracy theorist. Absolutely predictable.

  6. #746

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    So you can't find an example of a Democrat politician calling illegal aliens exactly what they are, so you posted a picture of someone who looks like they are from San Francisco.
    So you're admitting there are Republicans who do use the term, but democrats will not.
    I guess cities ran by democrats who are declaring themselves sanctuary cities and refusing to obey federal law by not handing over prisoners to ICE as required by Federal Law is not ignoring the law according to you.
    BS. She clearly asked him a hypothetical question about non-citizens voting and he clearly said there wouldn't be a problem.
    You're simply lying. Obama literally tells her to vote as a legal citizen to be the voice for those that can not vote legally. At no point Obama tells illegal immigrants to vote. It's rather telling that all you have is this; altering what Obama said to support your false claim.
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  7. #747

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Ah, there it is. It always come down like this. When liberals have lost an argument they always resort to something from their Holy Trinity. It's always someone is a racist, right-wing nut job, or conspiracy theorist. Absolutely predictable.
    No, you're right, believing in mass voter fraud without evidence is perfectly reasonable and not conspiracy-like at all. This reminds of a discussion I read on another site where someone who was right-winged in his opinion and was complaining that he is tired of being simply dismissed as crazy or illogical. He actually made a really good post about how it was unfair to dismiss him in such a way and I almost bought into it. Not a few posts later he was responding to another poster with a claim that Communism was currently in the process of taking over the US.

    The moral of the story is here: if you want to be taken seriously you have to act serious. Sorry you can't just make whatever wild claims you want and have people treat it as anything worth paying attention to. If you are going to regurgitate nonsense about mass voter fraud or the former president being from a different country, don't expect to have people actually try to maintain a conversation over that idea. I am not obligated to entertain conspiracy theories even if the theorist is in denial about it being a conspiracy. You don't get to abuse facts and force people to accept the next new crazy contrivance.
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  8. #748
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Ah, there it is. It always come down like this. When liberals have lost an argument they always resort to something from their Holy Trinity. It's always someone is a racist, right-wing nut job, or conspiracy theorist. Absolutely predictable.
    If you want that claim to be taken seriously, then you can write to your local representative to setup a commission to investigate voter fraud. After all, the Republicans have both chambers of Congress and the Presidency. And I hear that things are progressing very slowly:

    Hans von Spakovsky of the Heritage Foundation says he's neither been asked to participate in the investigation or been consulted about it. "Which seems a bit odd given that I'm one of the leading experts on voter fraud," he wrote in an e-mail. Von Spakovsky is a former Justice Department official, who's been talking and writing about the issue for well over a decade and maintains a database of voter fraud cases around the country.
    I'm still waiting on that voter fraud "proof" the orangutan and his monkeys promised to investigate. If none materialize, we will hopefully put this meme, much like Obama is a muslim let alone not a US citizen, to bed.

  9. #749
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    No, you're right, believing in mass voter fraud without evidence is perfectly reasonable and not conspiracy-like at all. This reminds of a discussion I read on another site where someone who was right-winged in his opinion and was complaining that he is tired of being simply dismissed as crazy or illogical. He actually made a really good post about how it was unfair to dismiss him in such a way and I almost bought into it. Not a few posts later he was responding to another poster with a claim that Communism was currently in the process of taking over the US.

    The moral of the story is here: if you want to be taken seriously you have to act serious. Sorry you can't just make whatever wild claims you want and have people treat it as anything worth paying attention to. If you are going to regurgitate nonsense about mass voter fraud or the former president being from a different country, don't expect to have people actually try to maintain a conversation over that idea. I am not obligated to entertain conspiracy theories even if the theorist is in denial about it being a conspiracy. You don't get to abuse facts and force people to accept the next new crazy contrivance.
    You're obviously not well informed and yet you casually call people conspiracy theorists. Here's one of hundreds of stories that you are completely unaware of:

    http://godfatherpolitics.com/thanks-...ate-elections/

  10. #750

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    You're obviously not well informed and yet you casually call people conspiracy theorists. Here's one of hundreds of stories that you are completely unaware of:

    http://godfatherpolitics.com/thanks-...ate-elections/
    The irony, it burns. Yes, I call conspiracy theorists "conspiracy theorists", because that is what they are. If you think that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the last election and that information is being suppressed by the government/mainstream media, that's a conspiracy. The only "support" you can present for the claim is from seedy websites that have no reputation to speak of (i.e. they post clickbait). Do you have ANY media entity that has a reputation that supports your crazy idea? Or are they all "in on it" to make sure people don't find out?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  11. #751
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    The irony, it burns. Yes, I call conspiracy theorists "conspiracy theorists", because that is what they are. If you think that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the last election and that information is being suppressed by the government/mainstream media, that's a conspiracy. The only "support" you can present for the claim is from seedy websites that have no reputation to speak of (i.e. they post clickbait). Do you have ANY media entity that has a reputation that supports your crazy idea? Or are they all "in on it" to make sure people don't find out?
    Seedy websites? You obviously didn't look at it because it was based on, and showed, a NBC report. Go back and watch the video.

    And it is obvious you don't even know what a conspiracy is or else you would be using the term so loosely.
    Last edited by B. W.; April 18, 2017 at 10:52 AM.

  12. #752

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Seedy websites? You obviously didn't look at it because it was based on, and showed, a NBC report. Go back and watch the video.

    And it is obvious you don't even know what a conspiracy is or else you would be using the term so loosely.
    Yeah, that website is seedy, and that video doesn't support your assertion. You are trying to support a claim that millions of illegal immigrants voted by showing a video of one confused immigrant who tried to vote. See how that doesn't follow?

    And sorry you alarm you, but you are fitting the definition of a conspiracy.
    A conspiracy theory is an explanation of an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy without warrant, generally one involving an illegal or harmful act carried out by government or other powerful actors.
    In this case, you are claiming that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the last election and it isn't being addressed by the government or media (the "powerful actors") because they are covering it up in a conspiracy.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  13. #753

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Seedy websites? You obviously didn't look at it because it was based on, and showed, a NBC report. Go back and watch the video.

    And it is obvious you don't even know what a conspiracy is or else you would be using the term so loosely.
    So is Communism taking over America?

  14. #754
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Yeah, that website is seedy, and that video doesn't support your assertion. You are trying to support a claim that millions of illegal immigrants voted by showing a video of one confused immigrant who tried to vote. See how that doesn't follow?
    Now you are lying. The NBC story documented almost 100 suspect ballots in one Florida County. Considering how close Florida elections tend to be this could indeed alter election results if it is occurring across the state or even in a few counties.

    And I never said that millions of illegals are voting. I said that massive numbers of them could be voting. As evidenced by the NBC story it is very difficult to determine and the election boards aren't even looking.



    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    And sorry you alarm you, but you are fitting the definition of a conspiracy.


    In this case, you are claiming that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the last election and it isn't being addressed by the government or media (the "powerful actors") because they are covering it up in a conspiracy.
    Alarm me? By claiming there is like mindedness amongst certain news organizations (both on the right and left) does not prove I am a conspiracy theorist. It simply means I am accepting the facts of the situation. People who are like minded in their ideology do not need to communicate with one another to realize that something either supports or undermines their ideology.

    You, on the other hand are making the delusional assumption that I and millions of others like myself believe that there is a cabal of elitists that control all of the news in order to control public opinion and also that there is a counter cabal that opposes this. You're being ridiculously hilarious.


    There have been, however, prominent and well regarded leftists who have claimed that just such an elitist cabal exists; namely Walter Lippmann and Carrol Qiugly. I'm sure you're not even aware of it, but the techniques outlined and espoused by Lippmann are still used by journalists and academics today to instill leftist opinions in malleable minds.


    If I wanted to argue the existence of such an elitist or government conspiracy I would use the arguments that Lippmann and Qiugly used to prove their case that such people and groups exist. You can try reading Lippmann's "Public Opinion" or Quigly's "Tragedy and Hope" for yourself.


    But I do not chose to go that route. It is simply too obvious that there are competing ideologies at work and that these are the cause of the socially contrasting views presented by different publications and political entities.
    Last edited by Iskar; April 18, 2017 at 08:02 PM. Reason: personal references removed

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