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Thread: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

  1. #801
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Harith View Post
    That would be true had been not a British national (which he was). Hence, the travel ban wouldn't have affected him. Most of the recent acts of violence have been coming from natural born citizens, so the ban wouldn't affect them anyway. I am unaware of any major acts of violence committed by non-citizens in the last ten years.
    At least Anis Amri comes to mind, without looking it up.

  2. #802

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    It seems the Supreme Court has partially reinstated the ban for now:

    The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday handed a victory to President Donald Trump by reviving parts of a travel ban on people from six Muslim-majority countries that he said is needed for national security but that opponents decry as discriminatory.

    The justices narrowed the scope of lower court rulings that had completely blocked key parts of a March 6 executive order that Trump had said was needed to prevent terrorism attacks, allowing his temporary ban to go into effect for people with no strong ties to the United States...

    In an unusual unsigned decision, the Supreme Court on Monday said the travel ban will go into effect "with respect to foreign nationals who lack any bona fide relationship with a person or entity in the United States."

    A lack of a clearly defined relationship would bar from entry people from the six countries and refugees with no such ties.
    Supreme Court breathes new life into Trump's travel ban

    And so...

    The Trump administration on Wednesday set new criteria for visa applicants from six mainly Muslim nations and all refugees that require a "close" family or business tie to the United States.

    The move came after the Supreme Court partially restored President Donald Trump's executive order that was widely criticized as a ban on Muslims.

    Visas that have already been approved will not be revoked, but instructions issued by the State Department say that new applicants from Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya, Iran and Yemen must prove a relationship with a parent, spouse, child, adult son or daughter, son-in-law, daughter-in-law or sibling already in the United States to be eligible.

    The same requirement, with some exceptions, holds for would-be refugees from all nations who are still awaiting approval for admission to the U.S.

    Grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins, brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law, fiancees or other extended family members are not considered to be close relationships, according to the guidelines that were issued in a cable sent to all U.S. embassies and consulates late on Wednesday...

    As far as business or professional links are concerned, the State Department said a legitimate relationship must be "formal, documented and formed in the ordinary course rather than for the purpose of evading" the ban...

    Under the new rules, would-be immigrants from the six countries who won a coveted visa in the government's diversity lottery — a program that randomly awards 50,000 green cards annually to people from countries with low rates of immigration to the United States — will also have to prove they have a "bona fide relationship" with in the U.S. or are eligible for another waiver or face being banned for at least 90 days.

    That hurdle may be a difficult one for those immigrants to overcome, as many visa lottery winners don't have relatives in the U.S. or jobs in advance of arriving in the country.

    Generally, winners in the diversity lottery only need prove they were born in an eligible county and have completed high school or have at least two years of work experience in an occupation that requires at least two other years of training or experience.
    US sets new visa rules for 6 mainly Muslim nations, refugees

    I had no idea we have a diversity lottery.
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  3. #803
    Costin_Razvan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    I had no idea we have a diversity lottery.
    US immigration system is complete and utter nonsensical garbage. So don't he surprised.
    "It's bizarre though. Donald Trump, an ageing, orange skinned reality TV star with a history of selling steaks and conning people, a trophy wife and one of the most fragile egos I've seen pretty much just destroyed the head of the interventionist faction in the US State apparatus, Victoria Nuland, after literally becoming President of the United states. We must live in one of the more interesting timelines."

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  4. #804

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    It seems the Supreme Court has partially reinstated the ban for now:

    Supreme Court breathes new life into Trump's travel ban

    And so...

    US sets new visa rules for 6 mainly Muslim nations, refugees

    I had no idea we have a diversity lottery.


    It would be very reasonable to eliminate H1B visas, the diversity lottery, and refugee programs.
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  5. #805
    B. W.'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post

    I had no idea we have a diversity lottery.
    It's true. I became aware of the "lottery" after Obama started his Muslim outreach program for NASA when one of these folks magically appeared in a cubicle two cubes away from me. He was a Muslim from Bangladesh. Both he and his brothers "won" the lottery.

    Just think. All those years I thought NASA was about exploring space, but Obama let the world know it was about finding jobs for foreigners at taxpayer expense. From what I could tell he didn't have expertise in anything.
    Last edited by B. W.; July 06, 2017 at 09:57 AM.

  6. #806

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Trump wants a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" (sic).More xenophobic idiocies of this sort (let's keep in mind that in America not a single person has died in a terrorist attack carried out from a citizen from Iran, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia),
    Poland is silently drifting towards authoritarianism

    The Polish government is limiting the power of the Constitutional Court and the informational capacity of public media.
    And consequently, in Poland, Trump feels like a fish in water,

    Mr. Trump delighted his Polish hosts by recounting a popular narrative about the country’s resilience in the face of centuries of partition and oppression — including Nazi invasion and communist domination — but he said next to nothing about the right-wing government’s crackdown on judges, journalists and opposition parties, which has deeply alarmed other European Union leaders.

    The pro-Duda crowd at Krasinski Square, where many waved American and Polish flags, serenaded reporters from both countries with periodic chants of “fake news.”
    That came about an hour after Mr. Trump tag-teamed with Mr. Duda in a transnational denunciation of journalists who write negative stories about them.

    What made Mr. Trump’s sermon against the mainstream news media different this time was that Mr. Duda’s center-right party, Law and Justice, proposed restricting the media’s access to Parliament last year. The government backed down after street protests.
    “We don’t want fake news,” he continued, as Mr. Duda nodded vigorously in agreement.

    Mr. Duda, responding to an American reporter’s question about his own actions toward the news media, blamed Polish journalists for intentionally distorting his record and for failing to include his positions in articles critical of his government.

    Worried that crowds would not show up on Thursday — Mr. Trump is less popular in Poland’s liberal capital than in the conservative countryside — the authorities chose a smaller site.
    Really sad.
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  7. #807

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    I don't think you understand how the travel ban works or what it even is.
    Also I find it funny how as soon as Poland starts opposing EU authoritarianism with a democratically elected government it is somehow "drifting towards authoritarianism" by making Soros and his Mafia-style NGOs unhappy.

  8. #808

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I don't think you understand how the travel ban works or what it even is.
    Really?
    Trump's ban is a Muslim ban.Period.
    Your racist President, a few months ago, pointed to the mass shooting in San Bernardino to justify the order to ban US immigration from some Muslim countries.But the reality destroys Trump's ridiculous excuse: neither of the attackers in the shooting would have been affected by the new ban.
    Even more important, initially (more precisely on January 27), Trump claimed that he needs 90-day ban to review the visa processing system. Right?
    Almost six months have passed,it is now more than the time he needed to revise the system, and improve counter-terrorism screening procedures. So, the question is,why does he still insist on 90-day ban? why? read his tweets, the racist wants you to believe that banning Muslims will make your country safer.
    Donald J. Trump

    The Justice Dept. should ask for an expedited hearing of the watered down Travel Ban before the Supreme Court - & seek much tougher version!
    A "tougher version", what is that supposed to mean? translating: ban all Muslims!

    He explains,
    Donald J. Trump
    That's right, we need a TRAVEL BAN for certain DANGEROUS countries, not some politically correct term that won't help us protect our people!
    Donald J. Trump
    People, the lawyers and the courts can call it whatever they want, but I am calling it what we need and what it is, a TRAVEL BAN!
    Donald J. Trump
    The Justice Dept. should have stayed with the original Travel Ban, not the watered down, politically correct version they submitted to S.C.

    So, it's painfully obvious that...Travel Ban: President Trump's Tweets Hurt His Legal Case | Time.com
    “I think he shot himself in the legal foot,” Cornell Law School immigration professor Stephen Yale-Loehr said simply.

    White House officials have been frustrated by Trump's insistence on calling it a travel ban....From when he was a presidential candidate and first proposed a “total and complete shutdown” of Muslim entry to the United States, throughout his first months as president, Trump’s own speeches and tweets have continued to contradict his aides and muddy the legal waters for his case.

    ... the Supreme Court could ask for supplemental briefing as to whether these statements could be used, or the plaintiff’s lawyers could file a motion to include them, which Yale-Loehr thinks would be likely.

    “Its kinda odd to have the defendant in HawaiivTrump acting as our co-counsel,” tweeted Neal Katyal, lead counsel in the Hawaii lawsuit challenging the travel ban. “We don't need the help but will take it!"

    “If we just wait long enough, will he tweet out a whole brief for us?” tweeted Omar Jadwat, an ACLU lawyer who has argued against the ban. And the official Twitter account for the ACLU tweeted, "Yes, we may incorporate @realDonaldTrump's tweets about the ban into our Supreme Court argument."
    I hope you got it.
    Last edited by alhoon; July 08, 2017 at 02:10 PM. Reason: personal insult removed
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  9. #809

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Really? well, well, between you and me, who is the stupid guy?...I think I know the answer.
    Trump's ban is a Muslim ban.Period.
    Your racist President, a few months ago, pointed to the mass shooting in San Bernardino to justify the the order to ban US immigration from seven Muslim countries.But the reality destroys Trump's ridiculous excuse: neither of the attackers in the shooting would have been affected by the new ban.
    Even more important, initially (more precisely on January 27), Trump claimed that he needs 90-day ban to review the visa processing system. Right?
    Almost six months have passed,it is now more than the time he needed to revise the system, and improve counter-terrorism screening procedures. So, the question is,why does he still insist on 90-day ban? why? read his tweets, the racist wants you to believe that banning Muslims will make your country safer.
    Donald J. Trump



    A "tougher version", what is that supposed to mean? translating: ban all Muslims!

    He explains,
    Donald J. Trump


    Donald J. Trump


    Donald J. Trump



    So, it's painfully obvious that...Travel Ban: President Trump's Tweets Hurt His Legal Case | Time.com


    I hope you got it.
    Calm down. Also have you noticed that the muslim countries he has issued that ban in, are countries that hate our guts? You can't even walk in those countries in towns and say your an American without getting the tar beat out of you and stoned. Also some of those countries we are currently engaged in wars in certain parts,(aka Syria, Iraq, etc). Also they burn our flags and kill our foreign tourists, and even the civis there have been known to beat our civis. Why would we want them here after all of that? Also if you want to talk about Racist, last I checked our civilians weren't taking up arms and stoning, raping, murdering and otherwise torturing them yet they do that to us. Also terrorists like to hide within the mass of refugees. It's not that he's racist(even though he is racist and sexist at times) hes keeping out potential threats. If you think those people are fine, then head to Syria or another middle eastern country that we have engaged in war with in the past and declare your an American and see what happens. I hold no grudge against muslims in general but see the potential for extremists to try and sneak into the country. Also it's not like Trump is the only one to issue travel bans. Many other european countries have done so.

  10. #810
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Ludicus, in answer to your question on why Trump still needs 90 days, I would point out that Judge Derek Watson also blocked the 90 day review of vetting procedures, until the 9th Circuit restored it. So the clock ended up stopping and starting.
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  11. #811

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JLHartsock View Post
    have you noticed that the muslim countries he has issued that ban in, are countries that hate our guts?...Why would we want them here after all of that?
    A ridiculous excuse...

    Countries That Hate America the Most - 24/7 Wall St.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by JLHartsock View Post
    last I checked our civilians weren't taking up arms and stoning, raping, murdering and otherwise torturing them yet they do that to us.
    Citation needed. Check again, experts on terrorism tell us that since 9/11 no one in the US has been killed in a terrorist attack by someone from Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

    The US has a homegrown terrorist problem...mainly coming from the right.A Dark & Constant Rage: 25 Years of Right-Wing Terrorism in the United States,
    The Present and Future of Right-Wing Terrorism
    Over the past 25 years, right-wing terrorism has exhibited a considerable amount of stability. Part of this is due to the fact that most of it comes from two mature and well-established movements: the white supremacist movement and the anti-government “Patriot” movement. They have specific goals and specific enemies and can be expected to produce a steady stream of extremists willing to use violence to achieve those goals or harm those enemies. Moreover, though fringe movements, they nevertheless have deep roots in American society and cannot simply be rooted out or eliminated. Right-wing terrorism is not going away anytime soon...One thing is certain: if the United States does not treat right-wing terrorism as a real threat and react appropriately, there is no chance of lessening the danger posed by violent right-wing extremists and the 150 terror incidents described in this report will be joined by still more
    (And let's keep in mind that when a terrorist is Muslim the racist right says they were radicalized; but when a terrorist is a white male they say the person is mentally unstable)
    -----

    Where America's Terrorists Actually Come From - The Atlantic

    ...Like his border wall, which will be erected to stop a mass Mexican migration that no longer exists, Trump’s immigration ban is a solution that misdiagnoses the actual problem.
    As Nowrasteh notes, future terrorists could very well come from different countries than terrorists have in the past. Judged by the evidence to date, however, Trump’s ban “will likely stop few terrorists, prevent zero deaths, and slightly reduce immigration and tourism. All minor economic pain, no gain.”
    Quote Originally Posted by JLHartsock View Post
    Also it's not like Trump is the only one to issue travel bans. Many other european countries have done so.
    The Eastern authoritarian fascistoid countries.
    BUT,
    European Leaders Reject Trump's Refugee Ban as Violating Principles

    -------
    -------
    Both of you want a total Muslim Ban,that's what you wish. Let's go back in time, 2015
    Donald Trump: Ban all Muslim travel to U.S. - CNNPolitics.com

    "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said... His message comes in the wake of a deadly mass shooting in San Bernardino,

    Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski told CNN on Monday that the ban would apply not just to Muslim foreigners looking to immigrate to the U.S., but also to Muslims looking to visit the U.S. as tourists.

    "Everyone," Lewandowski said when asked if the ban would also apply to Muslim tourists.
    It didn't take long for the rest of the Republican presidential primary field to repudiate Trump's call.
    Last edited by Ludicus; July 08, 2017 at 10:05 AM.
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  12. #812

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Really? well, well, between you and me, who is the "stupid" guy?...I think I know the answer.
    Trump's ban is a Muslim ban.Period.
    No, its not a "muslim ban". It only affects countries where terrorist groups are actively operating and control territory. It also includes Iran, mainly due to political reasons. There are many muslim countries not affected by it.
    The only issue is that it does not include Saudi Arabia and some other gulf states, mainly because of US military personnel being stationed there.
    Again, just goes to show you have no clue what you are talking about.

  13. #813
    priam11's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JLHartsock View Post
    Calm down. Also have you noticed that the muslim countries he has issued that ban in, are countries that hate our guts? You can't even walk in those countries in towns and say your an American without getting the tar beat out of you and stoned. Also some of those countries we are currently engaged in wars in certain parts,(aka Syria, Iraq, etc). Also they burn our flags and kill our foreign tourists, and even the civis there have been known to beat our civis. Why would we want them here after all of that? Also if you want to talk about Racist, last I checked our civilians weren't taking up arms and stoning, raping, murdering and otherwise torturing them yet they do that to us. Also terrorists like to hide within the mass of refugees. It's not that he's racist(even though he is racist and sexist at times) hes keeping out potential threats. If you think those people are fine, then head to Syria or another middle eastern country that we have engaged in war with in the past and declare your an American and see what happens. I hold no grudge against muslims in general but see the potential for extremists to try and sneak into the country. Also it's not like Trump is the only one to issue travel bans. Many other european countries have done so.
    Yeah but when you look at the countries that are not on that list like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Qatar (even though Trump tweeted a week before they were guilty of state terrorism before selling them weapons) and Egypt, that argument really doesn't hold up. Now we all know why they are not on that list but to suggest it is in the US' interests of protecting its citizens, doesn't pass a basic smell test.
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  14. #814

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by priam11 View Post
    Yeah but when you look at the countries that are not on that list like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Qatar (even though Trump tweeted a week before they were guilty of state terrorism before selling them weapons) and Egypt, that argument really doesn't hold up. Now we all know why they are not on that list but to suggest it is in the US' interests of protecting its citizens, doesn't pass a basic smell test.
    All these countries pose a threat, but in general their alliance serves the West's national security interests as well, such as in counterterrorist intelligence sharing. A ban on them may therefore result in gains as well as harm to Western security. Whereas we have nothing to lose by banning the Somalis, besides humanitarian considerations.

    Personally I think Trump should toughen up and keep his campaign promise. Ban all adult male Muslims of every nationality and don't mess with Middle Eastern religious minorities.
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

  15. #815

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    I've learned a lot from this thread... Specifically, according to some of the posters, Islam is a race and not a religion...

    Any opposition to Islam is racism... Okay...


    Now in the real world, Islam is not a race, Islam is a religion, and it is not racism to want to keep out a hostile ideology.

    American immigration law still declares that espoused/active communists, anarchists, etc., are not fit for admission into the USA.

    They also ask about membership in a particular German political party that was outlawed in 1945 and they even still ask "did you serve in any capacity in the German government from January 30, 1933 to May 8, 1945?"

    My wife's grandparents were probably not even alive in 1945 and she was still asked that when she came here.


    The USA has long reserved the right to exclude people from admission for a number of ideological/political/affiliation/association reasons. The USA would be perfectly within its rights, and within the Constitution, to enact a total ban on anybody who confesses a belief in Sharia law.
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