[UPD - 21 MAY] Closed Alpha - Feedback

[Maestro1]

Thanks for your feedback. I've read through all the comments and I find it very pleasing that you would take the time and effort to test our mod thoroughly and to report back to us with extended feedback.

In conclusion so far, I've listed a couple of change suggestions on our board and I'll share them with you here:

-Cavalry charges are very OP. At the moment, we are thinking of reducing them for both shock and melee cavalry;
-Cavalry can survive for too long in prolonged melee. All cavalry but especially shock cavalry will get a penalty in melee defence;
-Pikes hold well but lack killing power, meaning that in the end they will loose. As such we will look to improve their damage. But consider this: Caligula and I have proven that pikes in total war can in fact be slightly UP and that is in my opinion, a remarkable discovery ;
-Bring the killing rates of missiles closer together considering tiers. As of now, missiles kill quite a lot of lower tier units in just a handful of volleys, while higher tier troops, especially when armoured, hardly loose any men. This gap is too big and we will seek to fill it to some degree.

We are glad to hear that these are the only real issues. Other balancing aspects so far looked at seem to be very well in place to the satisfaction of Caligula and I. Like atthias prompted: spears and swords are well balanced, cavalry suffer against spears appropriately, missiles weapons are very well in place (safe for the gap between sustaining fire as a lower tier unit compared to sustaining it as a higher tier unit). We have created a very, very solid base, from which to lead our balancing to greatness! ^^

Future aspects (so for the next release) will be as follows:
-Extensively test the current subrace correcters (So far most units are Northmen, save for some Dúnedain units in the higher Gondor tiers, but for the next factions, orcs, dwarves, elves and evilmen are coming in and adhering to the lore, they will have different strengths for being what they are);
-Differentiate speed values;
-Alter health values;
-Modify unit morale;
-Systemise unit sizes.

[Teutonic]

I hope you don't bring the missiles gap of killing rates between tiers too close. The better equipment of the top units should remain relevant.

Speaking of tiers, I really like the way they are represented: Elite (E), Trained (T), and Militia (M). It's little touches like this that help make mods truly great, IMO. The rest of the UI is great too, I think. The units too, obviously, though more detailed opinions are in the specific threads.

I think the Gondor banners should be a little more prominent. Higher flag staffs and maybe a little larger flags.

Also, Anfalas Coastlevies should be Coastal Levies.

[♔atthias♔]

I have a question what is the reason the team decided to go whit the fake division between spear=melee and schok cavalry like in attilla?
I mean cavalry is not mean to stay in melee just cycle charging
can that be explained?

anyone of the team?

[Mr.Jox]

How do you imagine cycle charging? Once unit enters the combat it will not leave until you do it manually.

[Maestro1]

anyone of the team?

Quite simple: the knights of Dol Amroth use a two-handed lance that is larger and more devastating. The Gondor cavalry uses a spear, which is shorter, and a shield.
For balancing that is going to mean that there is a large difference between the two: Gondor Cavalry will do pretty good in prolonged melee while DA knights suffer from penalties shock cavalry should suffer from (so melee defence is lower than with regular cav) trading for a offensive bonus and of course a massive charge bonus.

Like in Rome 2: Median Cavalry are spear plus shield, while Agema cavalry and Hellenic Cataphracts are two-handed lance. (both units are from the Seleucids).

[Nikoline]

After battle test.
1.Buff Pike infantry,let them worth their price and place,at least Good Armor-Piercing Damage.Right now they are no better than sword infantry stand against melee infantry.Make them kill more times people than themself.
2.Calvary of course op when fight Orcs and Uruks,but they are not so many all the time.Middle Earth battle mostly Focus on infantry combat.Give a recruit limit to the Elite Calvary Units or Make them much more pricey.
2.U can see from the movie,Gondor Swords man sometimes drop their shields and use their sword by two hands in order to achieve their best fighting skills.This also happened in Middle Age.My suggestion is:New unit with two-hand swords,standard Gondor Armor,higher charge bonus and higher melee attack(Of course lower defense and bad missile block chance).
Though some Gondor infantry soldiers do release one hand to assist combat,still focus on two-handed fgihting skill.Officers and Rangers always fight in two-handed swords.
3.Missile Damage to the units.
Seems both 1212ad's missile units and ROM missile units have the same problems:too long reloading time and mostly useless than melee infantry.Vanilla version's bow man is pretty good balanced with normal reloading time.I suggest increase the number of man of Orcs and Uruks with Very poor missile block chance.And buff Bowman like the vanilla version does.Orcs will still good at melee combat while missile units can be useful.
BTW，very good models,everyone of my friends impressed.Only needs a little bit various.Amazing!

[Commissar Caligula_]

3.Missile Damage to the units.
Seems both 1212ad's missile units and ROM missile units have the same problems:too long reloading time and mostly useless than melee infantry.Vanilla version's bow man is pretty good balanced with normal reloading time.I suggest increase the number of man of Orcs and Uruks with Very poor missile block chance.And buff Bowman like the vanilla version does.Orcs will still good at melee combat while missile units can be useful.

Our reload times are actually the same as vanilla, 26 seconds for archers.
If we bring the reload time down then archers could become OP because they'd still be dealing out the same damage but much quicker, and chew through units potentially before they can even get into combat.

[Vikus van de Merwe]

It might be an intersting idea to buff the reload speed but make their unit size smaller and its cost a bit more expensive. I noticed the long reload times, too, and sometimes it looks a bit stupid when the archers bend their bows for about 20 seconds while hundreds of enemies are about to clash into their formation.

Anyway, the feedback on the forum and in the videos is really helpful thus far and it'll help us a lot to focus on several major issues which we have with our balancing system right now.

[Gamersville101]

It might be an intersting idea to buff the reload speed but make their unit size smaller and its cost a bit more expensive. I noticed the long reload times, too, and sometimes it looks a bit stupid when the archers bend their bows for about 20 seconds while hundreds of enemies are about to clash into their formation.

Anyway, the feedback on the forum and in the videos is really helpful thus far and it'll help us a lot to focus on several major issues which we have with our balancing system right now.

balancingisalreadygreat,good 2 see you working on it even further!

[♔atthias♔]

Quite simple: the knights of Dol Amroth use a two-handed lance that is larger and more devastating. The Gondor cavalry uses a spear, which is shorter, and a shield.
For balancing that is going to mean that there is a large difference between the two: Gondor Cavalry will do pretty good in prolonged melee while DA knights suffer from penalties shock cavalry should suffer from (so melee defence is lower than with regular cav) trading for a offensive bonus and of course a massive charge bonus.

Like in Rome 2: Median Cavalry are spear plus shield, while Agema cavalry and Hellenic Cataphracts are two-handed lance. (both units are from the Seleucids).

this is exactly the problem I am having whit the division it makes no sense
IMHO it should be more like MTW2 were all chavalry are schock ones since cavalry cannot stay inn melee since they cannot stab in the front and back of their horses only at the sides

[AlexiosThe1st]

In general I'm in favor of all cav functioning as shock cav. That's not to say that some cavalry are completely unable to function melee, some can (as it seems the Byzantine cataphracts largely did, however this is still a point of contention and we don't really know).

I think the distinction should be between light, medium, and heavy cav.

It would also be awesome if this mod incorporated lighter cav that's actually useful unlike most TW games where it's always preferable to take heavier shock cav.

[Nikoline]

Test after Gondor and Uruks
1.Ithilien Rangers trained?I saw they do better job both in melee and two-handed swordin movie.They can't hold the line like Gondor infantry,but maybe they can make a good ambush attack when they run out their ammo.
2.Uruks armor usually a bit dirty,maybe reduce the light of the armor and put some dirt on it to make it darker.
3.Uruks pike really do a great job keep the enemy distance which they did not in movie.I think maybe cut off part of their weapon distance so human enemy can engage them at close quarters.

This questions is out of mod test.
1.Can u guys make the battle ground a little bit darker or less colorful so it may looks more epic?
Thanks!

[Mr.Jox]

Things like environment atmosphere, orc blood and rest post-FX things will come really after everything battlefield related. After all units done, after all most important settlements done etc.
Whats the problem of rangers being trained?

[Nikoline]

Tier1 Trained
I just think maybe they are some kind of both human melee and bow special elite unit with weak health and armor.(U can see it as Elite Palatina of Western Roman Empire:High attack ,low armor and health)
Just personal opinion.

Suggestion about missile units.
Wow,archers in movie are so powerful!Orcs just keep falling all the time.I just thinking a way to keep their power but still balanced the gameplay.
In the movie,melee units are way more than missile units except Elves.I suggest increase the number of people of all melee units while missile unit stay 160(depends on faction,this number may different),at the meantime,increase the rate of fire.Missile units will be more realistic but not op.

I don't have anymore game balanced suggestion about Gondor and Uruks anymore,they are excellent so far.Next time I'll focus on Dale

[Mr.Jox]

IIIRC rangers are either tier 2 or tier 3. Both represented as "trained". Tier 4 units are represented as "elites" and tier 1 as "militia"
So u can consider rangers as tier 3 unit. But that can be even too much, they don't have professional army skills nor they got good armour. In land battles they are not so epic. They place is rather in the forest.

[♔atthias♔]

a litlle bug https://upload.vstanced.com/image/wMl
the sheat is clipping trough the amour in the red circle

[Commissar Caligula_]

a litlle bug https://upload.vstanced.com/image/wMl
the sheat is clipping trough the amour in the red circle

A lot of swords, scabbards and capes clip unfortunately.

[♔atthias♔]

A lot of swords, scabbards and capes clip unfortunately.

nothing you can do about it?

[Vikus van de Merwe]

Clipping is one of the hardest issues to avoid and fixing these problems is very annoying work. We try to avoid clipping where we can but the engine isn't made for physicalized model collision. Even in vanilla units there's clipping visible sometimes. In some cases our unit models are more complex than the vanilla assets (e.g. the Fountain Guard's long black cloak) and it gets even more difficult to make sure that the models aren't clipping with anything else.
We're aware of clipping issues, but to make it look 100% correct in every movement and position (!) is sometimes a nearly impossible task. That's because some models doesn't really fit into the vanilla model design (for example, in the vanilla game there exist no cloaks which are that long that they nearly touch the ground). That's because of the reason that it would cause clipping. So there's always the struggle between a good looking design and the usability in the game engine. However, mostly we choose the good looking design way (e.g. we could have shortened the Fountain Guard's cloak, but that would have looked awful). As a compromise we have to accept the fact that there might occure clipping in some areas.

[♔atthias♔]

Clipping is one of the hardest issues to avoid and fixing these problems is very annoying work. We try to avoid clipping where we can but the engine isn't made for physicalized model collision. Even in vanilla units there's clipping visible sometimes. In some cases our unit models are more complex than the vanilla assets (e.g. the Fountain Guard's long black cloak) and it gets even more difficult to make sure that the models aren't clipping with anything else.
We're aware of clipping issues, but to make it look 100% correct in every movement and position (!) is sometimes a nearly impossible task. That's because some models doesn't really fit into the vanilla model design (for example, in the vanilla game there exist no cloaks which are that long that they nearly touch the ground). That's because of the reason that it would cause clipping. So there's always the struggle between a good looking design and the usability in the game engine. However, mostly we choose the good looking design way (e.g. we could have shortened the Fountain Guard's cloak, but that would have looked awful). As a compromise we have to accept the fact that there might occure clipping in some areas.

same for swan knights when their horses are in walking mode that sucks really
but I understand now that there is almost nothing you can do