[UPD - 21 MAY] Closed Alpha - Feedback

[Maetharin]

I agree, from what I've learned on this subject you need thick clothing with many layers (like gambeson) beneath it in order for chainmail to be fully effective. Besides from kinetic force, it is vulnerable to piercing damage as well.

Also, I like the shields of the Gondor militia, keep them! But you could introduce for extra variation and immersion regular army shields too (like 1 in 5). It is natural that some militiamen would get their hands on some regular army equipment. Whether they would want to carry the big and heavy shield with them all day is another matter

Well, would you carry it the whole day if it covered more of your body?
Especially if you don´t see regular combat and want to survive the coming battle
I certainly would

A big shield also has psychological effects.
For yourself it´s something to duck and hide behind,
for the enemy it´s a bigger obstacle they have to overcome.

So I´d at least have a ratio of 2/5 or even 3/5 with big shields.

Concerning militia armour, I´d actually give every man a gambeson, and only a few of them should get chainmail.

[Drag0]

the mod is impressive, It's clear that you have based it on quality. Said this premise I explain you what, in my opinion, could be improved.

1) I think that all units that have already a sword in hand, could have an empty scabbard on their waist.
All units that have in hand other weapon but able to switch to a sword, could have scabbard and sword on their waist. When the sword is used the scabbard should appear empty.
Also many spearmen units, that never use swords in combat, should have sword and scabbard on the waist.
Fix the bug effect that shows the sword superimposed on the scabbard.
Another problem is that Gondor spearmen and other few units have only scabbard without sword on their waist.

2) I don't like the berserker style of Dale captains, better with cloak, sword and shield.

3) Too short spears for Laketown guards, I've posted a picture of the movie in a previous post. Scimitars on their waists like in the movie.
Consider add Laketown archers.

4) Definitly I think that Gondor cavalry should not have shields, Rohirrim neither have shields in left hand, but on their horse flank. I like Gondor cavalry with spear, but if you let them to switch between spear and sword would be perfect. If you want shield for this unit make an oval cavalry shield, rectangular shields are not for cavalry. Consider add citadel guard helmet to the captain (without cloak), like in the movie.
Making Gondor cavalry weaker you could consider add Citadel guard cavalry with shield and spear.

5) Definitly I think that fountains guards should be a pike unit. I agree with you, but pikes should be visually shorter, like vineland guards ones, for example, or like we can see in the movie. Smaller spearhead please, it's big like mid soldier. Give to fountain guards a sword to use in close combat.

6) Lossarnach warriors has got too anonymous axes, add axes variety.

7) I love Dol Amroth knights, but maybe better give to all knights the plumed helmet.

8) Ithilien rangers are always on the ground, it would good in a forest, but in an open field it seems strange.
More masks on their faces.
Some Gondor tree on their chest would be fine.

9) Add scimitars and scabbards to Easterlings.
Consider new units with the same armour and helmet:
- easterlings with spear and shield (seen in the movie)
- easterlings with two handed "axe-short spear" without shield (seen in the movie)
- easterlings archers
- easterlings cataphracts with spears, please without shield, if you want shield give them a new oval cavalry shield.
- easterlings mounted archers
- easterlings chariots

10) Add this helmet for Dale cavalry or other elite Dale unit. I love it.


11) Add some plumed helmets for Gondor marines.

12) All citadel guards have beard

13) In battle I've seen that units start combat but after a time they remain passive, staying very close to the enemy. The combat ends if the player doesn't repeat the order to attack.
Also I've noted that a unit in defense, when is attacked, don't responds in block, but only few soldiers of the battalion take part in the combat.

Thanks, regards

[Maestro1]

Well we can't go on the 'I love it so add it'-tour I hope you understand.

[Drag0]

Consider it only as an idea

[♔atthias♔]

will try PFM then
- How the UI looks and feels to you
I dont really like the UI for to dark IMHO I know it fits whit the rise of mordor theme but it hurts my eyes

[Tietonian]

This looks really, really good. I appreciate the teams commitment to quality over quantity very much. The only visual thing that bothered me were the pikes of the Fountain Guard. The heads are way too big and it looks rather comical. Maybe adjusting the head size and pike length to what was seen in The Return of the King movie would look better?

[Alkar]

the mod is impressive, It's clear that you have based it on quality. Said this premise I explain you what, in my opinion, could be improved.

1) I think that all units that have already a sword in hand, could have an empty scabbard on their waist.
All units that have in hand other weapon but able to switch to a sword, could have scabbard and sword on their waist. When the sword is used the scabbard should appear empty.
Also many spearmen units, that never use swords in combat, should have sword and scabbard on the waist.
Fix the bug effect that shows the sword superimposed on the scabbard.
Another problem is that Gondor spearmen and other few units have only scabbard without sword on their waist.

2) I don't like the berserker style of Dale captains, better with cloak, sword and shield.

3) Too short spears for Laketown guards, I've posted a picture of the movie in a previous post. Scimitars on their waists like in the movie.
Consider add Laketown archers.

4) Definitly I think that Gondor cavalry should not have shields, Rohirrim neither have shields in left hand, but on their horse flank. I like Gondor cavalry with spear, but if you let them to switch between spear and sword would be perfect. If you want shield for this unit make an oval cavalry shield, rectangular shields are not for cavalry. Consider add citadel guard helmet to the captain (without cloak), like in the movie.
Making Gondor cavalry weaker you could consider add Citadel guard cavalry with shield and spear.

5) Definitly I think that fountains guards should be a pike unit. I agree with you, but pikes should be visually shorter, like vineland guards ones, for example, or like we can see in the movie. Smaller spearhead please, it's big like mid soldier. Give to fountain guards a sword to use in close combat.

6) Lossarnach warriors has got too anonymous axes, add axes variety.

7) I love Dol Amroth knights, but maybe better give to all knights the plumed helmet.

8) Ithilien rangers are always on the ground, it would good in a forest, but in an open field it seems strange.
More masks on their faces.
Some Gondor tree on their chest would be fine.

9) Add scimitars and scabbards to Easterlings.
Consider new units with the same armour and helmet:
- easterlings with spear and shield (seen in the movie)
- easterlings with two handed "axe-short spear" without shield (seen in the movie)
- easterlings archers
- easterlings cataphracts with spears, please without shield, if you want shield give them a new oval cavalry shield.
- easterlings mounted archers
- easterlings chariots

10) Add this helmet for Dale cavalry or other elite Dale unit. I love it.


11) Add some plumed helmets for Gondor marines.

12) All citadel guards have beard

13) In battle I've seen that units start combat but after a time they remain passive, staying very close to the enemy. The combat ends if the player doesn't repeat the order to attack.
Also I've noted that a unit in defense, when is attacked, don't responds in block, but only few soldiers of the battalion take part in the combat.

Thanks, regards

About the shields thing, you're right, tapered shields were used for cavalry (particularly for the Elves), as well as small round shields (such as bucklers) that could be put onto the back and taken off when needed (Rohan used a lot of these). Large, bulky shields or rectangular shields were not useful for cavalry. Agreed, if going purely by the movies the Citadel Guard really should have more of a spear-type weapon.

[Maetharin]

Maybe you could give Gondor cavalry the same shield as Pinnath-Gelin Spearmen use?
It certainly does look like a cavalry shield.

Concerning the Fountain Guard, as they seem to be a rather small guard unit instead of a field unit in the movies,
you could instead simply go by Games Workshop and add in a Dol Amroth men-at-arms as pike unit.

They are pretty much the only unit I miss in the Gondor roster.
We aren´t told what they were equipped with when they came to Minas Tirith,
but this way you could add in full length pike units instead of this intermediate version.
You could also use the fountain guard as a general exclusive unit.

IMO the best way to do this would be to equip the Dol Amroth units similarly,
but distinguishing them by giving all Knights their captain´s plate armour + helmets (they should be able to afford a full panoply)
and men-at-arms a Mail/Tabard/Mail coif combination.
To add a certain variety to the knights, you could change their shield heraldries to the ones they now have on their tabards.

Best regards

[Don Juan_de_Austria]

To start with, I love what the team has done so far! The unit design and details are amazing!
As I haven´t done much batteling yet, I can´t say much about unit balance, but I have to say something in regard of the captain´s of some units.

I think that a captain should be easy differnetiated from his men. In "civilized" armys, this makes chain of command easier, in "barbaric" armys the one in charge want´s to show the others, that he is in charge here.
With this in mind, some captain´s don´t really fulfill this qualification, but with a little detail adjustment this could be fixed. (Please keep in mind, that the following is only a suggestion, how some details could be changed, I´m neither demanding a change nor do I insist of my suggestions beeing used!)


Dale:
The captain of the Shipmen and the Merchants Escort is way to similar to his inferiors. Yes he has a more bronzecolored scale(?)armor but this isn´t enough to distinguish him. I therfore would suggest to give him a little featherbush on his helmet and his shield and cloak a different color (see pictures below).





As the factions of the unit´s in the Youtuber Preview faction, aren´t done yet, I don´t know wether there is already a plan for captains design or not. All I´m saying is that imo some unit´s would need better visualized captains.


Dwarves:
I would suggest to at least add some golden ornaments to the captains helmet, maybe even to his breastpalte. In the spear unit the captain is easy differentiatet, but within the Grimm Hammerers he is invisible. (As said above, I´m aware of the possibility, that there is a planned but not yet realiszed captain concept.)



Dragon Skin:
While it is true, that the captain is distinguished by not having a shield, maybe to add some color to his mask would be a good idea?



Isengard:
I would pleade for a captain without helmet. Why?:
The 3D models of the Uruk Faces you gave us are too beautiful to be hidden under a helmet and never shown in public!
Now seriously: If considering the film, every Uruk who had a commanding position was without helmet: Lurtz - helmess, Ugluk - helmless, Sharku - helmess, the commanding one at Helms Deep - helmless. (and nobody of them died because he had no helmet, what killed them would have killed them with helmet anyway) But maybe the team want´s the helmless one only for generals?


I hope I could present my ideas in a constructive way, and maybe gave some ideas to the unit-creators.

[Mr.Jox]

Oh nice feedback, only moment is easterlings, uruks, haradrim and dwarves were put for more variation and to fight with them. They are not even nearly completed so it's pointless to give feedback on them.

[Gamersville101]

I don't have access, so i want to mention something anyway, even though it might not be helpfull :p

the pikes seem to be OP in sieges, it could just be the players were bad but from what i have seen they arent neccasarily OP, but , when defending they dont fall
back when they are on a leveled position, e.g pikes on the hill, men charge into the pikes on the hill, the pikes basically slaughter anyone,

it makes sense though, just to me it seems a little over powered that tactic but thats a small thought i had

keep it up!

[alphasquad]

There are already the guards of Osgiliath, which are a pike unit. I think fountain guards simply should have a longspear, and don't switch to a sword. Like the gondor infantry, you can add sword to their right as an estetic detail. I think adding dol amroth as a puppet state faction of Gondor would be better.

[Mr.Jox]

There are already the guards of Osgiliath, which are a pike unit. I think fountain guards simply should have a longspear, and don't switch to a sword. Like the gondor infantry, you can add sword to their right as an estetic detail. I think adding dol amroth as a puppet state faction of Gondor would be better.

Well, DA is part of gondor with special status but even if this is debatable, there's another reason not to do it: it will require many DA units instead of single one. We're trying to minimise our work atm so next factions will have less units than gondor and dale (some were even cut from these two).

[alphasquad]

I don't have access, so i want to mention something anyway, even though it might not be helpfull :p

the pikes seem to be OP in sieges, it could just be the players were bad but from what i have seen they arent neccasarily OP, but , when defending they dont fall
back when they are on a leveled position, e.g pikes on the hill, men charge into the pikes on the hill, the pikes basically slaughter anyone,

it makes sense though, just to me it seems a little over powered that tactic but thats a small thought i had

keep it up!

For what you said, i have to disagree. Pikes are op in Attila, but not in this mod. They are UP :p and i'm gonna explain why.
The main problem is they don't do enough damage. They do 3 hp damage per attack, 1 base damage and 2 AP damage. Now, considering that a man has 105Hp, i guess it's pretty damn hard to kill someone. Sure, pikes are not especially meant to kill a lot of people, they are more useful to simply keep the enemy distant. However, i think that's a too low damage. 10 hp damage (8 standard and 2 AP) is far better in my opinion. Good against light infantry and cav

[alphasquad]

Well, DA is part of gondor with special status but even if this is debatable, there's another reason not to do it: it will require many DA units instead of single one. We're trying to minimise our our atm so next factions will have less units than gondor and dale (some were even cut from these two).

Yep sure.

[Maestro1]

For what you said, i have to disagree. Pikes are op in Attila, but not in this mod. They are UP :p and i'm gonna explain why.
The main problem is they don't do enough damage. They do 3 hp damage per attack, 1 base damage and 2 AP damage. Now, considering that a man has 105Hp, i guess it's pretty damn hard to kill someone. Sure, pikes are not especially meant to kill a lot of people, they are more useful to simply keep the enemy distant. However, i think that's a too low damage. 10 hp damage (8 standard and 2 AP) is far better in my opinion. Good against light infantry and cav

Then Caligula and I have completed what we set out to do: making pikes mostly for holding enemies at bay while defending rather than having them as a clenched fist able to plough through everything whilst on the offensive. They still kill about a 100 men when they are with about 160, but they take some serious time to start properly killing. It is an up going curve though, it builds up, more and more. And that is exactly how it should go. Pikes can hold them at bay while others maneuver and outflank. And for that reason the fountain guards have pikes, not longspears, because the pike is now a weapon almost entirely for defending while a longspear is two-handed and wielded almost ninja like with smashing and battering rather than mere thrusting, thus being the most offensive spear of all 8 or so polearms and spears present in the mod, safe for perhaps the glaive. And so the longspear would not fit the fountain guard at all. I know you did not know the balancing story behind all this, but I hope you agree with me now that you do know.

[AlexiosThe1st]

My only fear with having the Fountain Guard with pikes instead of longspears is that they're not going to be worth their salt. This is an extremely expensive unit and the most elite soldier Gondor has to offer. I can already envisage an easy counter to them. Engage with a mediocre unit, which has enough health to last a little while (since the pikes do minimal damage), and then shower them both with arrows. Friendly fire won't matter since it's a cheap unit and you're eliminating an expensive asset.

Even without doing this, they still don't seem worth it save for siege battles. But we'll see. It's a long road ahead.

I'll probably end up maining Dale so I suppose by all means keep it where it's at

[Maetharin]

I can´t wait for the units to become publicly available,
my inner sub-modder is calling

[♔atthias♔]

I find pikes good balaced as mastero1 said they keep everything a bay for a long time but when I charge tem in the back whit chavalry they melt in seconds good work guys

[Gamersville101]

For what you said, i have to disagree. Pikes are op in Attila, but not in this mod. They are UP :p and i'm gonna explain why.
The main problem is they don't do enough damage. They do 3 hp damage per attack, 1 base damage and 2 AP damage. Now, considering that a man has 105Hp, i guess it's pretty damn hard to kill someone. Sure, pikes are not especially meant to kill a lot of people, they are more useful to simply keep the enemy distant. However, i think that's a too low damage. 10 hp damage (8 standard and 2 AP) is far better in my opinion. Good against light infantry and cav

a mix of what this is with the current state would be the best